Sloppy Zhang

Why not? I think it'd be pretty cool!

I agree that in some cases I think the breadth of knowledge he conveys is much greater than perhaps the depth. And in a lot of subjects, he might have a more intellectual and academic understanding than experiential. But I do think that even information, in certain cases, can be valuable. I think he is skilled in a few areas (such as white crane), but I do think he writes on more than he has personally experienced, and those subjects seem to be more academic oriented. I too have his book and DVD on Yang long for tai chi. It is very distinctive, and unlike any tai chi I have ever seen. When comparing to white crane forms, it looks a lot like white crane. I think that in some instances, he's filled in tai chi and qigong knowledge from what he knows of white crane martial/qigong. So I think if you are learning other material of his, be aware of his background and personal leanings. But if you want to study his white crane specifically, might be a good bet. But I haven't compared his white crane to other white crane styles, so there might be something that one should investigate.

Yang Jwing-Ming has a very analytical style of writing. He breaks a lot of stuff down and goes into a lot of detail. Sometimes there are so many details to things that aren't currently relevant to the text you are reading (still helpful, but it might not be what you wanted at the time), and sometimes he repeats lots of detailed things over and over (especially if you get multiple books of his on tangential subjects, a lot of material will be the same). However, sometimes the detail in the subjects is GREAT. Sometimes that's exactly what I need. If I just want a clear breakdown of stuff, YJM is where I turn. He was the first resource I got when I turned to tai chi (co-written by Liang Shouyu), and he gave such a broad, yet detailed view of Taoism, that I felt that I learned a lot of really good material in a short time. So, yeah, he does have a certain writing style, and sometimes the style is excessive, and sometimes the style is just what you need. I'm sure anyone who's at least a bit familiar with his works know this, but for anyone else who is trying to get a feel for his products before purchasing, just keep that in mind.

Yes, I enjoy those movies too. And they can carry some good lessons and lead to reflections. But looking at real life, that doesn't happen. People are falsely imprisoned, and rot and die (or are executed) for no reason other than their objection to the current regime. Predators are on the prowl, looking for people with a low guard to take advantage of. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished, and if you aren't careful, that can and does happen. I'm all for helping people, but correct help that will help EVERYONE. If I help some homeless guy, who then stabs me to take my wallet so he can buy drugs, well, he might feel really bad about it in the future. Or he'll overdose and die. In which case, two people will be dead. Or, if I decide to help someone else, or, if I know how to physically defend myself, then I would not be put in a situation in which I am the next victim, AND I can help. Self sacrifice, while noble, only goes so far. I don't object to self sacrifice, I object to useless self sacrifice. Getting stabbed by a crack head is, most likely, a sacrifice which will bear no fruit. It's no different from the invention of modern weaponry. Human kind has the ability to destroy the planet hundreds of times over. A few hasty pushes of buttons, and we're gone. Not that I don't understand your argument, but I don't think that "spiritual" powers would be any different than anything else. I highlighted something which I find a rather interesting trend that seems to manifest itself in those who study history, those who partake in various spiritual traditions, etc etc. It's the notion that "current" times are somehow inferior, or less virtuous, then "the good old days." I hate to break it to you, but it's same old, same old. There was a Roman historian who prefaced his book by saying something to the effect of, "the youth of the modern day are lazy, and disrespect their elders. The elite lounge around all day, the politicians engage in all sorts of debauchery, and military leaders are the ones who seize control. I'll look to the past, remember the virtuous founders of Rome, and maybe we can learn a lesson." Each generation thought the world was going to end. We think the world was going to end. Think about what the people living in WWII thought? Countries killing off significant portions of the population, bombs which could make cities vanish in an instant. And guess what? WE'RE STILL HERE. So, again, it's not that you don't have a point (to some extent), it's just that, I for one, don't find your point very relevant to the issues that are being discussed. And you aren't the only one putting this point forward. It happens a lot, and I find it to be a pretty weak explanation for why powers/abilities/whatever shouldn't/aren't/won't be taught/learned/used. Again, I find it amazing how so many people in spiritual paths have such a lack of vision. It seems lots of people equate "yielding" with "limp". At least I did. The first experience I had with this was learning wing chun. I had gone from karate's hard blocks to wing chun's angular blocks. My teacher told me to hold my arm at a 45 degree angle, but be "relaxed", not like tai chi. My partner threw a punch, encountered my arm, then my arm bent back and I slapped myself in the face. True story. He said "relaxed, not limp". In tai chi, there is the force "peng", the expansive force. At least in Yang style, every move should have "peng". Even when yielding, you have peng. There is never a loss of structure. Even in yielding, you never compromise your own (structural) integrity. You never just accept, you never just lie down. In yielding, you lead your opponent into emptiness, you dissipate their power. And then you follow up this yin with the other half, the yang. This can be in the form of fa jing, this can be in the form of a joint manipulation/break. There IS force involved. There IS an ACTIVE force. The GOAL, however, is to issue force where the opponent is NOT. Find where their structure is weak. If their structure is strong, use that against them, let them go to their own oblivion, then position yourself where you have the advantage. So there is a difference between "yielding" and "accepting." Yielding gives up your current position, because you are going to move to a better one. Accepting, at least in the way I'm distinguishing it from yielding right now, is when you just let the other person do what they are doing with no action on your own, because you believe something like, "oh that's not wu wei" or somethin. Again, I don't disagree with you. It's just that the scale you're talking about is so large, it is almost separate from the issue at hand. ("but there is no separation" yadda yadda..... no) Just because powers come and go does not mean they do not have a use. Just because something is impermanent does not mean that I cannot use it. The food I eat is eventually going to wind up a pile of shit. Does that mean I can't enjoy the food in front of me? I think I CAN enjoy the food! One day, the person I see getting victimized is going to get over it, or else they'll be dead and they won't care anyway, does that mean I shouldn't help? NO. That's RIDICULOUS! Do not let the concepts of impermanence lead to apathy! Just because we're going to grow old doesn't mean that we can't do what we can now! Just because attachment to physical form is dangerous, doesn't mean I shouldn't help people who are about to be subjected to bodily harm! [sarcasm]Yes, which is why there are so many enlightened people running around, telling us what to do, and preventing us from doing stupid stuff! Thanks to their enduring traditions, succeeding over the "lesser traditions" of power seeking, we live in a great world![/sarcasm]

My sentiments exactly Well, don't know how much I agree with the last little chunk, but everything else 110% agree. I started training because I wanted powers. Still want them. After four years, still going strong. Had to sort through a lot of bullshit. Found some very good things along the way. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I was a pretty nice guy when I started. Still think I'm a pretty nice guy. Watched nice, wholesome cartoons and anime when I was growing up. Learned lessons about friendship, the strong helping with weak, and things like that. I learned karate as a kid, but since I was a bigger kid, and a nice guy, I got picked on by lots of smaller kids who called me "fat". I never retaliated, because that's not what the "good guy" does. It's not nice to be picked on. Even if you retaliate, you are blamed as the trouble maker. It's not fun. Eventually I did physically retaliate. Didn't have any problems for the next 6 years (which is when I moved away). Yeah, I got punished. But the real trouble makers never caused trouble again. I figured I had lots of common sense. I'm a friend to people I meet, and help those in need. But I must ask: what is wisdom without power to implement that wisdom? I see power in the hands of cruel people so very often. I cry and get very frustrated whenever I see movies dealing with betrayal or conspiracies (such as the Count of Monte Cristo). Nice people just trying to live their lives with no harm to anyone who get taken advantage of by not nice people, and are POWERLESS to stop it. Real life doesn't turn out like movies. The "good guy" doesn't always win. People are brutally and unfairly victimized by evil perpetrators. Sometimes they are never saved or found. I think of the case of Natalie Holloway. No one knows what happened to her, yet the person who has last seen her is running around, literally screwing with everyone, telling one false story after the next. On a wider scale, people are killed in natural disasters which could have easily been prevented by simple things like better building codes. Since I've started, I feel like my compassion has grown, and my perspective has gotten wider. But I remain POWERLESS to do anything about it. Then I see people running around saying they can cure cancer, can turn invisible, can clairvoyantly see/find people, yet what do they do to help the world? NOTHING. A big. Fat. Nothing. They say you can pay X amount of money and spend Y amount of time training, and YOU can develop this stuff.... and who has done so? NO ONE. If they have, they don't talk about it. And it's fine. It's their prerogative to not say anything, and I respect that. But the fact is there ARE people saying they can do stuff. And the fact is there ARE ways that they can help if their claims are true. And the fact is they AREN'T doing ANYTHING about it. So, for me, finding power is important. Because you can be as right as you want, but be executed by a group of people who want to control whatever group is in question, and you will be POWERLESS to do ANYTHING about it. Then do you know how many people you have saved? NONE. The rhetoric surrounding "powers" makes me laugh, cry, and gets me angry. It is one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen. And CowTao, I think it's that rhetoric that thetaobum was pointing out in his post. New Agers (and many others) who come in and dogmatically say, "just accept" "you are uncomfortable with the situation because of your ego" "if you want powers, that's just selfish" with absolutely no care to the actual motivations for the drive to get or use those powers. Some of us don't live in la la land. Some of us don't live in happy, "just accept and go with the flow and everything will be all right." Sometimes if you accept and go with the flow, you just get brutally run over again and again and again.

I thought it was just called "common sense"

Great site. One recommendation I have for that site, since there are lots of different things it presents, is to find the method(s) that appeal to you, and that you feel you can most readily implement in your life. Techniques that you are comfortable with are going to be much easier to work with, and are going to get you results much faster. That looks awesome, thanks! Great post!

This is AWESOME. Thank you

Seriously, the guy was an idiot if his words manifested, all he had to say was, "it's not raining!" I find it amazing how so many spiritual people are so lacking in vision.

I'm not talking about me I'm talking about this game that we play on the forum and in life, trying to figure out what's really going on, trying to match what people say to what's going on. When someone says, "I saw someone disappear", how do we appraise it? You can choose to appraise or not to care. I can choose to appraise or not to care. But in the end, there is no one to choose, and no one to care.

That's all I'm saying. It would be nice. No one HAS to do anything. If they don't want to, then don't. If they do, then do. Or do not. My point is that the discussion will not end if there is still someone out there with those questions. You can say it's all their fault, you can see it's the fault of people making claims, you can say it's karma, you can say just accept it, you can go on a crusade to try and find the answers, you can investigate the practice, you can do the practice yourself, you can not do the practice. But just because someone comes in and says, "no I saw this myself" means, well, pretty much nothing. It's nice that we have their testimony.... but it doesn't get us anywhere.

Interesting thoughts! I am an avid lucid dreamer, and that's one of the things I'm working with.

Yes, but how many of those "real living masters" are out there saying, "this is how you do magic", and how many of them are saying, "this practice is more for a change in consciousness than it is about magic." And I'm not looking for something devoid of any ideology. I'm looking for something that is primarily practical, does what it says it can do, and addresses the actual mechanics, rather than focusing on the ideology. Something of a Taoist flavor is preferable. Initiation Into Hermetics certainly has its own ideological constructs which determine its steps, but at the same time, it focuses on why and how those steps work, rather than just saying, "breathe like this, bow like this, write like this, bam, ur done". Though the flavor of its system is, still, western element theory/Hermetics. So it's a great system, it just doesn't mesh well with me. So I'm looking for something else. And as much as Bardon says, "this practice is more for a change in consciousness than it is about magic," he does say, "and by the way, this is how you do magic." Which is what drew me to Bardon, and it's what kept me at the practice long after I began to realize that it wasn't for me. Well after you revealed that jumping off of a building to fly was stupid, because at a subconscious level you are still thinking that you can't fly, I decided to just go out into a field and know that I can fly. Because really, somewhere along the line, I decided that I couldn't fly. So I decided that I could fly. And that didn't do much for me except for giving me the fear that I would fall out into the void of space and die. But then I realized, "when did I decide I'd die by falling into space?" So I got over my fears, and kept deciding to fly. Haven't flown yet. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Please teach me!

One of the captions of the pictures says that Kan is doing this after receiving new practices. Now pamelais seemed to imply that that statement isn't necessarily true. If that's the case, and it's just Kunlun and Red Phoenix, then where are the other invisible people? If it's just something Kan can do, what's so special about Kan? If it's just a certain stage, then where are other people in relation, and how can they get to that stage? If there are advanced practitioners that don't have this happening to them, why not? Is it something else they have to do? Is it is a supplemental practice? If so: If not, then it'd be nice to be told that the methods that are on the table are just the Kunlun and Red Phoenix. But we are still left with the other questions.

Thank you for sharing all that you have shared And now begins the discussion on the reality of the claim. If it can be done, why isn't it being done more often? Who has been taught the method to do this? What is the method to do this? What does this phenomena entail? Does it lead to other phenomena? What are the requirements for it happening to someone? And on and on and on and on.

What leads you to think that?

Only have experience with his tai chi products. However, looking at the way he teaches, and looking at a few of his demonstrations, they have a very shaolin white crane "flavor" (other people have noted this as well). So perhaps directly learning the white crane would be beneficial, as that seems to be what he's most predisposed towards.

Yes yes, people have been saying that stuff all the time. "focus on the higher stuff and the lower stuff will be there already." Right. Okay. So how do you do it? "Guard the three treasures. Return to stillness." Okay, that's cool.... a lot of people have been sitting in stillness for a long time, but nobody seems to be flying around, breathing underwater, or living for thousands of years. And before you say "you have to not want it", well, if I recall correctly from the story of the monkey king, he started cultivating with the exact goal of becoming immortal, and apparently so did all the people who discovered this secret, so if that's the case, wouldn't it have been impossible for them to discover it if they wanted it the whole time? Let's get away from the cryptic messages here. "Eyes shut immortal must ride dragon through hidden door." Okay. That's nice. What does that mean? What method do you use? Where did the method come from? Who's done it?

Now now now, let's not get too ahead of ourselves! Everyone is always so quick to jump over to "true magic" of internal yadda yadda, and inter connectivity yadda yadda, and ever present loving awareness warmth and hugs, yadda yadda, but I'd like to look at lesser magic for a little bit. Would I like to become immortal? Sure. Would I like to be a compassionate person who helps people out? Sure. Do I want to escape from this endless cycle of birth and rebirth? Sure. But I'd also like to be able to move mountains, summon storms, appear and disappear at will, know things psychically, transform myself, travel thousands of miles as if I was taking a single step, and many other feats of "lesser magic." As amazing and wondrous as it may be to change your consciousness, I find it of great interest to accomplish "lesser feats". Your information on internal alchemy was very good, and your contribution was much appreciated. But, in this thread at least, I'd like to get away from the prevailing attitude of what seems to be present in lots of spiritual communities, and that is that "lesser magic" isn't what you should spend your time on!

Again, try to narrow down what it is exactly you are expecting. Then you can do a practice which lends itself toward what your goal is. Because as it stands, the practice that you are doing (which is great, don't get me wrong) might not be best suited to what it is you really want. There's a time for some practices, and there's a time for other practices.

Wow, great stuff! Thanks for all the resources. Glad to know I'm not the only one pursuing this topic

No problem. I don't know about generating memories, be they memories from real planes of existence, or things you have created of your own mind. Kunlun is talked about very often as a "deconstructing" practice, letting go, etc etc. If you have memories from some other existence, Kunlun would probably be less about generating these, but remembering them, and then letting them go. I say that when you do the practice, don't try to have any set goal in mind. Try not to think too much about what other people have said, what past experiences you've had with the meditation, with other meditations, and things like that. Don't be so concerned with having any particular goal, just try to be in the moment, and do the practice. Now I'll step aside and let someone who does it share.

I highly suggest you find and read some of the past threads. A lot has been discussed in there. A few people have gone back and taken down some of their posts, but most of it should still be around. I haven't practiced Kunlun myself, but I've read most of the threads on it, and here's generally what comes out: Everyone is different, and the practice affects people differently. Some people gently discover and let go of old memories, energy blockages, and things like that, their health slowly improves, and overall they are feeling pretty good about the practice. As time goes by, they get further and further in the practice, and come to a period of time when they are having very strong practice sessions, and feel they are making progress. Other people have very sudden, strong experiences happen. Sometimes these are not always good. Sometimes ALL the gunk that's inside of their bodies (emotionally, physically, etc etc) comes out. Sometimes it is not pretty. Sometimes people get sick. Sometimes they have crazy wacked out visions/images. There was one case in which someone's family member started to be affected, and that person stopped practicing after a while. Some say it puts you in contact with certain types of spirits. Others maintain that it just makes you aware of stuff that's already there. Basically, when you do the practice, stuff happens. For some people, it was the kind of stuff they wanted to have happen with a practice. Some people handled it. Some people could not. Some people grew to be able to handle it. Other people found practices that are more suited to them. When I say stuff like that, I don't mean some people were "better" or "stronger" than others. I simply mean that Kunlun is one way of going about doing things. Some peoples' internal motions are pretty slow and rhythmical, so an uncovering/letting to practice that is Kunlun churns up stuff in a slow, rhythmical way. Other peoples' internal motions are sudden and fast, and a letting to practice like Kunlun is akin to suddenly removing a gigantic damn all at once- if a lot of rough, churning water had been held back, well, "all hell" is going to break loose before you get to peace. Some people want to let go of the water all at once, some people would rather slowly pour it out. Depending on the type of person you are, and depending on what you want to do, the practice may or may not be good for you.

I somehow missed this post on my first read through, sorry MD! I highly suggest you (and anyone interested, for that matter) to take a look at Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics." It operates quite from dominant religious organizational structures. It basically sticks to the framework that Stig outlined. So for the non-denominational magic practitioner, it's still pretty good. And that's kind of the model that I'm looking for. It stands in contrast to a method of magic that, say, requires you to subscribe to religious Taoism. So all of the "magic" it teaches you goes, "go to your alter, write a fu in this particular way, dedicate it to this particular entity, burn, and magic happens." Which is great if you're a religious Taoist, and already subscribe to that particular view. And if you DO subscribe to that view, then the underlying structure that Stig put forward is there.... but if you aren't a religious Taoist, you won't get that much of an effect. However, as nice as it was, Initiation Into Hermetics IS rooted in another kind of overarching structure, and that is the western four/five element model (earth, water, fire, air, void), some Hermetic principles, and things of that sort. So it's a lot more open because it tackles the framework more so than the ideology that is draped over it, but it does still have ideology that is draped over it. I've been working in the western magic model for a year, and it just doesn't have the same feeling that the Taoist model gives me. But at the same time, I'm not a religious Taoist at the moment (maybe one day I will be, then again, maybe one day I won't be), so a magic system based on Taoist religion isn't going to be the best at this point in time. Hopefully I can find a method, or group of methods, that is direct as Initiation Into Hermetics (and IIH is one of a kind, so I'm not necessarily holding my breath). But cool stuff always turns up here, so I thought I'd ask

I'd say that, in a non-denominational way, a weapon would have to be "blessed" or "charged" in a certain way, for a certain purpose. So, from a Christian perspective, Holy Water. Holy Water has been blessed in a certain way so that it holds a certain kind of property. Evil things don't like Holy Water because it has gone through this process. The same would hold true for any other type of weapon. Now someone else could empower this item, or you could do it yourself. Of course, the more significance that the item has to the user and recipient, the better. A sword, for example, might be a bit more significantly evocative of a "warrior" lifestyle than, say, a sponge. But if you had the proper intent, energy manipulation, and other such rights imbued into a toothpick, it might be a bit more effective than a sponge, because you, and the other entity, would recognize it readily as a weapon, so you can already play of mental constructions. And the practitioner would play an important role. If you aren't good at empowering things, then giving it to someone else who is good (or even someone who you BELIEVE is good), might have an effect. There's an interesting article here that's about the subject (in a way), but as the writer said: unless you're practice is of a level to actually DO something, you won't be able to make it work, and will be doing little more than exercising your imagination.