Sloppy Zhang

Exorcism as far as Bardon's system of Hermetics is simple in theory- Find out the source of the entity, find out what its affinity is with regards to elements, then fill the room or the person with the element it doesn't like, which weakens it (if it doesn't force it out altogether), then you just command it to leave. Of course, in practice it's a little bit more complicated, because it requires you to actually be able to perceive the source of the entity. If it is truly a self generated entity then there's nothing an exorcist can do. Even if they "destroy" it, the root problem will remain and it will only be a matter of time before it rears its ugly head again. If it truly is an external entity (self sustaining energy form, possibly with its own level of intelligence, does not require someone to generate it), then it requires the exorcist to be able to correctly perceive its attributes. If it's an entity with a fire affinity, then fill the room with water energy. Of course, it's not like it's going to TELL you how to get rid of it, it's going to do its best to try and trick and deceive you, so it all comes down to the exorcist's level of correct perception. As far as safety is concerned, knowledge is the best tool. If you know the source, then you can know what it's going to try and do, so you can be prepared. If you have it cornered, it's going to try to attack. Not necessarily because it wants to hurt something, but because of its instinct for self preservation- it knows its cornered, and it knows you can kill it or forcefully send it away. So prepare accordingly. And by this someone from Bardon's system would say just have great willpower. Taoist exorcism methods, I would imagine, would be similar, using various methods to focus either 1) the will, or 2) the proper elements to get rid of something.

Maybe they have developed the "ling" that B.K. Frantzis mentioned, so in their cases they will come back.

I think another overall thing (issue? Not really the right word...) with the board is conflicting goals- For example, in my psychic powers thread, a lot of people come in mentioning, "oh well this won't get you to enlightenment." In the Jerry Alan Johnson thread, people come in and start throwing around "what is kundalini awakening?" When people make a kundalini thread, people come in and are like, "kundalini rising isn't what enlightenment is". Everybody has an opinion, which is okay, but people express that opinion EVERYWHERE even when it is not warranted. And you know, to some extent it is helpful, it keeps you grounded. It lets you know, "hey, there are other paths and ideas out there, maybe I should look into them." But then people get drawn into long conflicts, arguing over who has more authority to speak on some subject than someone else, egos get in the way, yadda yadda. I dunno, just stuff I've been thinking about as I've gone through posts. On top of the old forum there was that paragraph that was like, "open for discussion about all forms of spiritual seeking" then listed a bunch of things like taoism, buddhism, western magic, occult, martial arts, etc. Is that still around somewhere? Is there a way to bring back that general message? Even though it is the taobums, there are 36 million passes to the tao, right?

"Supernatural" things are just "natural" things that we haven't come to understand yet Clarke's third law, right?

From "The Great Stillness" by B.K. Frantzis: For those that didn't understand the picture

So I kind of debated a lot whether or not I should post this. It seems that psychic powers, the attainment of power, and perhaps more importantly, the usage of that power seems to be a very taboo topic in the realm of spiritual cultivation. It can inflate the ego, keep you attached to impermanent things, and keep you from being in "the flow". I don't know how many other people here are like this, but pretty much the sole reason I wound up studying meditation, and continue to do so, is to attain various psychic powers and other siddhis. I don't see anything inherently wrong with them, and I don't see anything wrong with the pursuit of them. They are what they are. Will they help you get liberation? Probably not. Are they easy to abuse? Probably. But to that extent, they are no different from pretty much any other thing out there. However, I don't know how many other people have noticed this, but finding a reliable method of doing so is tricky! Various people make various claims about the ability of themselves or others, but verifying those claims is tricky at best. I am not so concerned with verifying whether or not an individual has them- I believe them to exist, I believe them to be attainable, all I seek is a method that will work. Plenty of people out there make allusions to things, saying stuff like, "some people may experience such-and-such phenomena", but that to me sounds like a cheap advertising tactic- you bring up the subject, but as soon as someone asks about it you brush it under the rug, "oh well I can't say for certain", or, "well that doesn't happen in all cases, I can't make guarantees". Let's try and keep that stuff out of this thread Sure, liberation from this endless cycle of rebirth sounds good, the eternal bliss of unity with the divine sounds good as well.... but first things first! Baby steps, you know? What do you guys know, and are willing to share, about psychic powers and the acquirement of them? Anybody you know that you have seen, or perhaps even heard about, that can demonstrate these abilities? Or even better, anybody have any good methods for attaining them and are willing to share their insights or experiences?

It would be nice if more people would actually speak from their experiences, rather than repeating stuff they have heard in some texts somewhere. I appreciate your honesty

There are many "dead" forms of taoism, just like there are many "dead" forms of any other religion. Taoism isn't special.

Yes and I appreciate all the feedback. No offense but there are plenty of other threads on here about enlightenment, virtue, how to be healthy, etc etc etc. Since the topic of psychic powers doesn't really seem to be discussed much, and when it is people just go on and on about how it distracts from the "true goals", I'd really appreciate it if we can keep it to, you know.... stuff helpful to "psychic abilities". But certain people in this thread seem to go out of their way to make comments about stuff "real enlightened masters" teach, which carries with it obvious implications.... implications that have been heard before, understood, and duly noted.

It's not like I just started my search with Taoism. And it's not like I haven't been learning morals my whole life. Some of us aren't blessed with these master guru senseis that monitor our progress and carefully observe us as they instill the proper morals into us before they teach us stuff. Some of us go through life learning as we go, learning from where we can learn. Unfortunately it seems that as soon as you ask a question that you don't have access to, it's suddenly like everything you've ever done goes out the window. It's like as soon as someone asks, "how do you get psychic powers?" people are like, "well obviously this person needs to build a moral foundation." It's like... whoa, wow, thanks for the vote of confidence. Just because I'm interested in power doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it doesn't mean I don't have dozens of life experiences that have taught me to know better. Now obviously not everyone who asks about this stuff or starts searching for this stuff does so for a morally good purpose, or is a morally good person. But it is kind of annoying to be lumped into that category and that goes the same for everyone else who is in my boat.... it SUCKS (yes I just used judgment!!!)

Again, I didn't start this thread to find enlightenment, I started this thread as a means of finding a method to get psychic powers. To make stuff happen. To do stuff. Stuff that may or may not liberate you from attachment, or may or may not tempt you to do stuff. Sometimes it's like someone makes a thread asking, "how can I learn to fight to defend myself?" and everyone responding, "fighting is not the answer, learn to leave peacefully." Well if the guy is in a situation in which physical force is necessary.... that's not the proper answer Think of it as a reverse koan, except this time it's the teacher that must supply the necessary response

Yeah, I agree with this. I've had people tell me stuff before and I was like, "no way". Then I found out on my own and was like, "that's totally true!" Still, even though I didn't understand it, I had still heard them and still learned in the end. So there has to be some kind of telling. Don't those teachers remember what it was like to be young?

I don't like this. I want people to tell it to me straight. I don't go into a situation with expectations. I may have my own goals, but I always see stuff for what it is.... or is not (try to anyway). I agree. So true! Yeah, I agree with this too. The past couple of days I've been reflecting on stuff, and I'm amazed how much of certain practices I have been doing my whole life- just intuitively or spontaneously doing, but "trying" to do them seems robotic and fake. What do ya know!

I dunno, as I don't even go into threads involving masturbation anymore. I looked at one and left a comment, but never checked back because it wasn't something that hasn't already been done around here a dozen times.... and I don't even consider myself a forum "old timer" Plus people make spin-off threads about a topic that is pretty much in the same vein as a topic already here (one already seems to have been made). If it's not a totally different that you feel needs its own discussion, I don't think a new topic needs to be made.... but it's a free internet, so whatever.

I've started to feel more empathetic just as a result of normal practice. It's like any other sense- at first you can't control it, but after a while you are able to manage it. Take hearing for example. You hear pretty much every auditory stimulus that reaches your ear. Your mind, however, doesn't always respond to it. It's like people from the country who move to the big city. At first they can't sleep because they hear cars going outside their window all the time, and light comes in through their window and it's too bright to sleep. After a while though they can sleep fine. It's not that they don't hear it, they just don't let it bother them any more. And if they try to listen they can still hear the cars and what's going on outside. So now is just that starting transition phase, of learning that you can feel.

It's not so much the content for me, it's how many times the content comes up We seem to have a new masturbation thread every week The other day I showed up to the forum and there were literally 4 topics with masturbation in the title. Can't we just have ONE "master masturbation thread"? And psychic powers hasn't come up nearly enough for it to warrant its placement on your list of topics Then again, you made that thread about old people, didn't you? (err, I mean, >40) sorry if these topics got on your lawn If a thread doesn't interest you, don't read it. There are periods of months in which I don't find any thread reply worthy, and in fact there are weeks/months when I don't even log in- nothing is worth it.

I dunno.

What is your definition of power?

When in high school I took karate, and was really intense about it. I made my own makiwara, punched it a lot, did a lot of knuckle conditioning and conditioning all the other striking surfaces. I put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into it, I really wanted to get the "black belt", to be the best in the organization. It got to a point where I could fight on the same level with a lot of other black belts at the school, then I got out and sparred with people from other disciplines and got destroyed. The karate training at the school didn't help me at all. That's when I learned that "rank", that working towards that "black belt" really didn't matter, it wasn't about that. But you know, I still had really well conditioned knuckles and other striking surfaces. When I sparred with people from other places, and even when I got into a few fights since then, I was really glad to have done all the conditioning, even though, in the long run, it didn't really matter. Is strength everything? No. Is there a point to doing all that stuff for the sole sake of being "the best"? Not really. Do I routinely enjoy the fruits of my labor? Hell yes. So..... conditioned knuckles might not have made me (directly) a better person, they may not have shown me enlightenment, but they sure as hell help in a fight.

Well someone would have to provide a method so we could reach a point where we can do that... Which is the whole reason for making this thread

Yes I know and your post was one of the best ones in this thread Well I've never been there so I have no idea how long it takes. It just seems like, you know, if you want to get somewhere you should go right there, right? Not piddle paddle around with stuff that "might" get "some people" there "if the timing is right".

Honestly, and no offense to anyone, but it's not stuff I haven't heard before. Go back and read my edited post, but seriously. I joined this forum in September '08. Again, I have learned a lot of stuff that I have incorporated into my life, personal and professional relationships, and health. My overall well being has been much better, I am less stressed. But that isn't all that I am looking for. Sitting here in January 2010, you'd think all this work I've put into psychic abilities would have shown something. I've been on this forum and going on with the whole, "oh relax, feel, go with the flow" and all that stuff. I've studied and practiced and done all sorts of things. I haven't pushed the psychic issue too much, especially on this forum, because I knew that as soon as I did people would think I'm juvenile, missing the point, will likely fall into some trap, or whatever. But, you know, it's gotten to a point where I am starting to exhaust all the traditional avenues. People keep making this vague statements like, "well somewhere down the line some people experience this..." Yeah, I'm not looking for that anymore. That's all I've been able to find since starting on this journey. I'm looking for, "do this and this will happen." But at the same time, I am looking for something that resonates with me and fits into my overall philosophy, personality, outlook, body, etc. Which is why I ask, again. I haven't gotten much so far being passive, time for some activity. Again, college dorm, can't.

I'm not ignoring anyone. I've read every post here several times. I don't know about you all, but I am taking this quite seriously. The whole "listen to the divine" and "go with the flow" and all that stuff is good, and it's something that I've been working at every since I came across taoism (which I got into shortly before I joined this forum, back in September 08) Again, it's not like I'm not incorporating this stuff into my life or practice. It's that I'd ALSO like to incorporate stuff that will also get me what I want. Does that sound selfish? I don't care. Do you think it's something I should have gotten over if I had really been doing serious work for that long? I don't really care. I've dedicated every waking moment to this stuff, and even my moments sleeping (lucid dream exploring), and, no offense to anybody, but this wu wei stuff again isn't getting me where I need to go. HOWEVER, I DO like taoist methods of energy work, like stuff I've read of B.K. Frantzis. But Frantzis is just as "tiptoe around the psychic power" issue as everyone else. The whole, "don't play around with things, it won't give you spiritual advancement", "don't do stuff to tempt the ego", "psychic powers may or may not be real" and all that other stuff. I'm looking for stuff that will work. Sorry you feel like I'm not giving you enough love 3bob (or anyone else that has responded to this thread) but if all you are going to tell me is, "psychic powers aren't the point" or "learn to be like a cat" well, duly noted, your job is done Sorry if that sounds kind of jerk-ish but.... at this point, I really don't care I do really like cats, by the way, though I do live in a college dorm (working on that mundane transformation), so no can do on the cat front.

B.K. Frantzis wrote an article about this here.