Sloppy Zhang

If you want to learn to have an orgasm without ejaculation, relax. No, seriously. During stimulation, there are all sorts of feelings going through the body. The problem is that a lot of people, (guys and gals) want to rush the process. You go from 0 to 60 in a quick couple of hand motions, and it's all over. Relax, and feel. Ejaculation and orgasm are two separate processes. Ejaculation is triggered by orgasm. When you relax, and learn to feel when the orgasm is coming, eventually you can learn to relax immediately after the orgasm. The muscles that cause ejaculation don't do their thing, and you feel the pleasure without ejaculation. Trying to use an external lock, or even just trying to tense up some muscles in some weird way, isn't going to do anything but hurt you. Slow down, enjoy the process. Of course, that means if you aren't in a situation where you can't devote a lot of time to practice, you won't be able to practice but you should do it right or not do it at all.

Very glad to hear that! Actually of all of the stuff that I have read and done, qigong and other daoist philosophies/methods seem to resonate the best with me. A little while ago I got into Franz Bardon's works, which were awesome in terms of comprehensiveness and a very specific method to achieving certain things- but for the life of me I just couldn't get into the system! Unfortunately the amount of material available on qigong in terms of acquiring "abilities" isn't near the amount available from the western magick scene, so for that I'm a little sad not to get too far off topic, but I didn't like the chaos magick approach, at least not from what I have read of it, especially the "repression" of certain thoughts/emotions to build the energy for sigilization.... anyway, different topic! Ah, nice way of putting it! One thing that Bardon always emphasized, and I have seen it echoed in other qigong books and teachings (such as in B.K. Frantzis) is the notion of being in tune and having a unity with different layers of being. Bardon put it as physical-astral-mental, where the astral body, for example, perceives things perfectly on the astral realm, but someone who normally functions and is aware of only the physical is not going to perceive it. A large part of the process involves clearing out the gunk in your system that prevents transmission from your astral to your physical, but at the same time strengthening the astral to increase the senses. Again this seems to echo in various qigong methods. Awesome observations! I actually find it interesting that a lot of the "foundation" stuff is mentioned, but only briefly. For example, many people start with, "step 1: relax your body and clear your mind, step 2:....." but relaxing the body and clearing the mind is really hard! That's why after picking up a few books of "psychic" stuff I moved on to Zen- because I knew I had to get my mind cleared. But Zen is very, you know, straight and narrow, and don't worry about stuff that is illusory and isn't going to get you to enlightenment I'm very happy you remembered that! Well put, very well put... how do you suggest one does so? Er, for psychic stuff, anyway

Psychic powers for me aren't about trying to fix emotional problems or anything like that. For me, I know the emotional problems I have, I have to work through them. I've made this analogy a few times, but here it is: it's like being really good at basketball. Being really good at basketball isn't going to solve any emotional or social problems you may have. And there are plenty of people who chase "abilities" in basketball all the time. A lot of people just don't ever amount to much. But there are people who get scholarships to go to college, go pro, get tons of money and fame, all from being really good at basketball. Will it solve their problems? Most likely not. If anything their problems will change, but the root will still be there. It's a tool. It allows you to do certain things. Nothing more, nothing less. I agree with you that the real "first things first" should be what you said- but before enlightenment I'd like to enjoy some psychic abilities so in that sense, it's first on the list for me.

Telepathy, precog, and clairvoyance mostly. But some physical stuff like telekinesis (moving stuff with your mind) would be neat as well

Interesting! I was reading some books on chaos magick, and one of the phrases that came up was, "detached, but not disinterested" as a mindset to have when doing some sort of operation. I kind of thought of it like going to the park and watching a little kids' football game or something. You sit and watch and enjoy it. But if your friend says, "hey let's go" you are easily able to walk away and not give too much thought as to the winner or the loser. You just like watching little kids trying to play football

From what I understand doing Kunlun standing is not encouraged- you don't want to put yourself in a position in which you might hurt yourself.

Taomeow seems very knowledgeable about things related to the five elements I'm no expert on wuxing, but here's what I see for me: I have a wood deficiency, so I would need things that help feed wood, which would be things relating to the water element. Metal is also relatively low, and metal is controlled by fire, which in my personality tends to be a little strong, so too much fire practices or things related to fire could cause problems. Water controls fire, so again adding things involving water helps keep my fire in check at the same time. I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw this because over the past couple years I have found that water paths/methods really suit me, fire methods start to bother me after a while, and maybe now I know why

Cool quiz! -12 wood, +20 Water, +23 Fire, +11 Metal, +28 Earth [edit]Wow, on further reflection, this helps explain a lot

I have had some similar thoughts recently about a few things. I've thought of it like shooting a basketball. Kids can make a basketball shot easily without understanding the physics behind it. A physicist might come in and know all the formulas and amounts of force needed to make the shot, and then recreate the shot... but may or may not be able to do it. You don't necessarily need to understand all the math behind it to do something. Then again, maybe you do? This is just something I've thought of from time to time, not drawn any real conclusions though.

Look at your posture throughout the day, and try to feel what muscles you habitually hold contracted. You'd be surprised how much tension we carry around. My chest is usually quite tense, which pulls my shoulders forward, which pulls my spine forward. Sitting up straight is uncomfortable, but not because I can't do it, but because my muscles are so tense, and sitting straight actually pulls on them. Once I massage, relax, and stretch those muscles out, sitting with my back straight feels quite comfortable. Same thing with half/full lotus. It's not that I can't do it, it's that the muscles in my legs and hips are so tight. Once I do proper relaxing/stretching, full lotus is quite easy (I was surprised the first time I got into it, my feet slid right into position and I was like, "whoa"). In lotus my spine is naturally straight and I am erect, but relaxed. So I wouldn't say you have to "work" to achieve these positions, rather, you have to "not work" to achieve these positions

Probably because he's less concerned with putting "high level/high energy" practices in books than he is with putting relaxing, grounding, healthy exercises in books (translation- the boring stuff).

I don't think this is the thread to have some of the conversation we've been having.... Thanks to- Star Wars episodes IV, V, and VI, for inspiring me, and my dad, for patiently trying to answer all of my questions that I had about that fictional universe All the various cartoons of my childhood, opening my mind and letting me explore new ideas. Shaman King, an awesome manga that inspired me a lot. Thanks to all the various creators of the various websites that I found when I google searched these topics that interested me so much. And thanks to the publishers of all the books that I got led to as a result of those google searches. And thanks to whatever force led me to this forum, I have no idea how or why I even found it but felt compelled to join after reading only one thread

I always thought magnet therapy and stuff was kind of ridiculous, but since recently I've started to have stronger feelings of qi from qigong practice, I've been going around and "feeling" various things. While cleaning my house yesterday I found a set of very strong magnets that were left over from one of my brother's science projects. I was playing around with them for a bit and trying to "feel" the magnetic energy. For about an hour after I stopped playing with them, my hands felt very magnetized, and when brought together or against parts of my body I could feel various "push" and "pull" distinctions. So maybe something there. Or all in my head

Taomeow, I love your posts

I find this bit quite interesting. Maybe this is one of the many reasons why so many people have found/find Kunlun great at the start, but "bad" later on down the road (maybe even when they return home!) because they have lost the "support structure". Then again in some systems spontaneous movement is "taught" (untaught? it's spontaneous) after the student has spent a while on regular routines, so maybe the student has their own supportive field? Some people may have naturally strong energy fields, so they can be "open" but not necessarily vulnerable to potentially harmful outside influences, and maybe some of us practice in areas that are surrounded by a potentially detrimental pocket of energy. Maybe a mix of a few, or none of he above. Still interesting.

So I find myself at a bit of a crossroads in my life. In many areas actually, but they all seem to hinge on this- One action leads to the eventual success of all of my goals. I see the path laid before me, and all I have to do is walk it. However the path repulses me- it does not vibe well with me, I feel like a fish out of water, dry, stiff, and heavy when I begin to undertake steps down that path, and in some cases even when meditating on that path. Another action feels right- I feel natural, at peace, full, fluid, bouncy, pretty much the opposite in every way that the first path makes me feel. However, there is no way of knowing where it will lead. I see the first couple steps ahead of me, and no idea what the consequences of doing it will be. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions? Experiences with similar situations and how you got through them, or are currently working through them? Standing still isn't doing me good, but I don't know what to do.

So I just got back from the library and the grocery store. As I was walking outside, I thought that I'd open myself up to whatever was out there. I got in the library and do a book search, but can't find anything, so I wander around. I do another search, open up the computer, and the previous run search was finding a book by B.K. Frantzis Then as I was leaving the grocery store, I saw "LDD" that someone had carved into the sidewalk concrete, and it reminded me of Pietro always using it to abbreviate "lower dantien" Is the universe speaking to me...?

Well I suppose I will (prepare for lots of devils )..... For about a year and a half now, I've been practicing from B.K. Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body book. I haven't been to any of his seminars or workshops, or studied with an actual teacher, just reading the book over and over again and relaxing and trying to get a feel. In the past month or two, I've gotten a very tangible sensation of qi, and I've started to become more sensitive to the qi of others, as well as environments such as buildings, parks, crowds and stuff. It isn't constant, and it's not perfect, but it's starting to build, which is good. However, one of the whole reasons for my getting into meditation/spiritual exercises was (don't laugh), to get psychic powers (I said don't laugh ) It may sound juvenile, but it's really what's motivating me (and I've had enough sobering experiences to know how not to use those things). I've had some good successes with this. I've been talking a walk through a part, and just felt energy surge through my body. I've been in class about an hour after doing some dantien breathing, and felt a tingling energy moving up my spine (I was trying not to squirm around too much, and just sit still and dissolve it ) I've also had some very powerful revelations about my own mind and how I behave and stuff. The problem is, well, the energy gates exercise is really just the foundation. Higher level exercises are only really taught through workshops and stuff in Frantzis' system. I'm a university student right now, all my available money is going to university tuition. As much as I would like to, I can't drop $400 to pay for a seminar that is in Germany, which would also entail travel expenses. And on top of that, that seminar would be just one seminar for just one next step. The next step would require more trave+seminar, then another, then another, then another. Frantzis in his books has dropped hints like, "these practices may even lead to such things as..." or "some even say they have experienced things such as..." but then turns around and is like, "there is a lot of mystery and secrecy about these advanced practices, and they are only taught to high level students after years of earning the trust of an in person teacher". Which is all good and well but... that's not where I am at in my life right now. As a side note, I've also done lucid dreaming work for a long time, and Frantz's system really seems to fit in with that as well. Relaxation (to help get asleep), a relaxed awareness of the dream (so you don't startle yourself awake), and gentle movements led by the mind (to get you around in the dream successfully) have really helped immensely. All in all, it really fits in with my life. I have recently come across Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics book, which is pretty much full disclosure, laying it all out on the table. He says it flat out, "do this this way and you will get this result. Period." That's nice, it's what I've always been searching for, I was so happy when I found it.... but the practices REALLY don't vibe well with me. It's very weird. I've tried to integrate, to find the "middle path" so to speak. I've done all amounts of research and meditation, trying to link the things I have felt through my qigong practice to what I am trying to feel in Bardon's practice, but I just can't. As soon as I start practicing Bardon's stuff (or sometimes even just think about it), it's like something comes over me and any progress and feeling I have attained through qigong is disappeared. In another thread taomeow mentioned that some practices cause the mind/energy pathways to rewire, and some practices rewire you in vastly different ways. I think this is one of those cases. As for dreams, I have had dreams in which I have been practicing steps of the IIH, which was interesting. But all in all, it doesn't have the same feel, or transition into lucidity that qigong has provided. In martial arts, I also don't feel as integrated after Bardon's practices. I almost have to switch to qigong mode. Even though part of Bardon's system is development of the physical body, it feels much different from qigong, and again, I've tried to use qigong as part of the physical body training in Bardon's sytem, but the energy seems to be quite distinct. Despite these drawbacks though, and despite the tumult and stress that my mind has been under lately with all this (and other aspects of life in general). I have had several very specific experiences which were distinctly "psychic" in nature. I am doing something right. I am starting to get what I have been after, I just need to follow through, but for some reason I just can't commit. Maybe it is because it is familiar, or maybe because I don't want to lose what progress I have made, but I cannot let go of what I have so far with qigong. It is tangible, my body feels healthy, it dovetails nicely with my martial arts practices, the emphasis on natural movement, relaxation, relaxed focus, strong connection with intuition- all of it feels right for mw (plus I watched a lot of Star Wars when I was a kid, so maybe that might have something to do with it ). HOWEVER, there is no guarantee that I will meet avenues for higher level of study. The future is completely unknown. All I have is the foundation exercise, and I have no idea when (or if) I will ever find a way of learning what I have set out to learn. Bardon's system, however, is right there in front of me. Everything I have ever put myself through has been to get what Bardon's system promises in very concrete terms- not hints, no allusions to stories of various feats, no "some say" or "this possibly could happen" or "this might happen". I just have to do it. But again, whenever I sit down and do it, I feel my body and mind tense, I have to expend a lot of energy just to get a little bit done. Looking ahead at some of the steps, I have even intuitively figured out how to do some of the stuff he says to do- but for some reason whenever I try to do it in the context of Bardon's system, it feels forced and rigid, not lifelike. For example, I am a very imaginative person, I can naturally imagine scenes in my head and play out scenarios, been doing it all my life. But when I sit down and "try" to do it, like in Bardon's step III, I can't do it with ease... but the higher levels are a guarantee. There is also a parallel to this situation in my material life (school + job), but that's a whole other can of worms sufficed to say, this is the big conflict I'm wrestling with. Follow something that feels right, but I have no idea where it's going, just trust that I'll get where I want to go (or realize where I want to go isn't where I should be going....... even though I really REALLY want to get there, yes, I am quite attached to it). Or do something that feels all wrong, but push through it to get to a goal that has defined my life for going on five years, and what has gotten me to the point I am at now (and I don't just mean having this problem, it got me into qigong first ) Consultation with various people have brought up a lot of responses similar to Kate's- namely, paths that are "difficult" are paths that are opportunities for growth. The fact that I am drawn to them means that I see something in them that is something for me to potentially learn. A practice that I am drawn to yet find easy to find achievement in is due in various parts to the nature of the energy it works with, my natural disposition, or my familiarity with similar practices from previous lives. A practice that I'm "familiar" with can on one hand bring rapid advancement in that system, but on the other hand not lead to as much growth as working through another system. I am a kind of laid back person in general, so on one hand I could use some of the more "intense focus" exercises Bardon teaches. But on the other hand, focusing in the way that Bardon teaches gives me headaches after quite a while, whenever I "try" to focus I wind up just giving myself a headache. The "relaxed focus" is something that I have found useful to get to after meditation, but the "try to focus" has helped in some areas- but again, it is a distinctly different type of focus, I feel vary different in each of those states of "focus".

Both ways say they are middle of the road Oh? Any reason in particular why it would be the one to take? Good point

All right, so for the past couple of years my dentist has been bugging me to get my wisdom teeth out. I turned 20 last month, a lot of my peers who have not gotten them out a long time ago are in the process of getting them out, and my dentist tells me all these horror stories about what could go wrong but.... I dunno. My dad's wisdom teeth never even came in, and he's fine. All my life I've had unnecessary surgeries either performed on me, or nearly performed on me. A couple years ago I had sharp pain in my side, the doctor said it was appendicitis and I had to have it removed or I would die any minute, I said I'll give it a day and if it still hurts I'd get it done, he was like, "oh but you'll die!" then the next day I woke up fine..... Every once in a while someone brings up the medical industry or something like that on this board, so I figured I'd at least float the question out there: any news on wisdom teeth? How "true" are those worse case scenarios? Obviously everyone is going to be different and circumstances will be different for each person, but I figure I'd ask anyway

All right, so I was reading and browsing around some articles. I won't say who they were affiliated with because I really don't want to get caught up in that one system, rather, I'd like to examine this philosophy holistically. Many here are familiar with the idea of "wu wei", effortless effort, doing without doing, actions happening without forcing them. To get people to practice this, many forms of meditation and qigong have been made that attach to this philosophy. By learning to feel energy, one can learn to flow with the energy happening all around them. By being present and not focusing and attaching to some desire that is going to lead you every which way, you can get this true "attainment". Stuff happens seemingly by synchronicity. But this article described a guy who operated a factory, and he taught this meditation/qigong to his employees. Then a manager came and evaluated the factory, and said, "your workers are great, they arrive early, stay late, don't slack on the job, and do whatever their boss tells them to do without complaint, a marked improvement!" And, I dunno, it seemed that this whole, "stay in the moment, be present, let go of all desires, and what will come will come" sounds like a convenient way to control a population- if they get rewarded it's because of their non-action, and if they don't then they shouldn't worry about it because if they do it's attachment Thoughts?

All I'm saying is that I was shocked at how "convenient" it was for the employers to have workers who were happy doing what they were doing, and how they are more productive because of meditation/qigong. Obviously there are a lot of different ways to look at the situation. If they are happy, then does it matter? If someone is happy does it make a difference if they are a minimum wage day laborer doing heavy factory lifting, or if they are a CEO? Plenty of happy and sad people on both sides of the fence. It's just incredibly convenient that even if you tell a guy to do a tough or crappy job, and he's "content" (or is at least trying to cultivate a sense of internal contentment, rather than looking externally), they won't complain, question why they are there, and they will instead dutifully carry out the task in the moment, trusting that the "Tao" (boss?) will provide them an opportunity if they just carefully observe the timing, and move without effort. I'm not saying we should all start complaining, and I'm not saying that you should stop doing what you are told. Every successful operation requires a team of people doing work- if you have too many chiefs and not enough Indians, you won't win the battle, or if you have too many captains and not enough sailors you aren't going anywhere. It's just, you know, convenient for the one or two chiefs/captains to be all like, "don't complain, make peace with what you have, find inner stillness and content, and have patience for the Tao to take its course, whatever needs to happen will happen, if it comes down in your favor, more power to you, if it doesn't, then it wasn't meant to be"

First of all, what position do you meditate in? Lately I've been doing more sitting meditation in half lotus and full lotus, which keeps my back more erect, the problem is that my general everyday posture is TERRIBLE, and sitting in a way that gives me proper posture actually hurts after a while, although it feels good and balanced at the start. If it's the case of just your posture correcting, take it easy for a few days, be sure to stretch and warm up the area before getting into your meditation position. Also check your posture throughout the day. Changing habits are hard. If you DON'T think that's the case, well then it might be signs of a more serious problem, in which case I would say, again, lay off doing whatever posture you are currently doing, find another more comfortable way of doing it, and have it checked on.

The lobby, IMHO, is a neutral zone. People come in, say hello. If they have a specific question, like, "I'd like to get an introduction to Taoist energy work, where can I find it?" Then a proper referral is welcomed, like, "you might want to check this out". Otherwise, point them here, prompt them to make a thread, so that way everyone can chip in. No offense to new members, but I almost never visit the lobby A few people might find the SFQ links helpful, but I don't think anyone wants to get inundated with everyone posting a link to whatever they feel the best system is as soon as they register

Thanks, I was reading over it again and was worried I might come across as kind of a jerk It's hard when a lot of people in your area are narrow minded, and the energy instructors around are frauds at best So are you planning on teaching an introductory qigong course to middle aged adults who may or may not have experience in Chinese culture?