Sloppy Zhang

Granted, now nobody cares about anybody at all. We are all island unto ourselves. The loneliness leads many to suicide. I wish my family would take a chill pill, the tension in the house can be cut with a knife!

The scary thing is I know and understand exactly what you mean Part of the problem is worrying about it- the more you think about it the more you wind up sabotaging yourself. Breathe, relax, don't let it worry you. Silence is golden, make some popcorn and watch a movie

Well first of all, no one would show up But, assuming they did, I'd pretty much try to explain everything in plain old english terms. Pretty much take all the Chinese out of it. Yup, I said it. It would be about relaxing, gentle movements that go easy on the joints, and continuous breathing. No real demonstrations or anything, just, you know, "great way to relieve stress and get your body moving without it being too demanding, plus you can learn safe ways for your body to move so you can move easily and efficiently if you do need to do something demanding." I'd stay away from anything about "energy" or something that would draw either intense skepticism or more serious thoughts about this being "foreign" or "unnatural" or "not right for them". Stick with breath and relaxation. I learned from a book so..... whatever was in the introduction. Yes, I said that too. No good schools around here. If you couldn't already tell, not a very worldly area The main focus was on relaxing, ease and efficiency of movement, maximizing health, naturalness of breath and body movement- stuff that could be applied either realistically or philosophically to anything. Best way to teach something, in my humble opinion, is to connect it to something they already know and understand, rather than to introduce a bunch of new concepts and terms, at least on the first day. As more people get into it and more comfortable with it, you can begin introducing the history, new terminology for familiar concepts, and all that good stuff.

No offense but.... I don't think too many of us are taking this thread too seriously Again, you have to be REALLY special to be a target of anything evil just by practicing a certain system or learning about a certain topic. I guarantee that for must of us (at least me anyway ) will not think any less of you in the future because of this thread. There is no need to commit internet suicide, and this thread is not leading to your taobum suicide Once you metaphorically pull your head out of the sand by getting involved in spiritual practices, it's easy to look around and see a lot of negativity- or downright evil- in the world. But seriously, feel good about the fact that there is nothing special about you, and no one is out to get you, because nobody cares. It sounds depressing, but it is quite liberating, to know you can walk through a crowd and not be noticed.... like a ninja..... At least, it's liberating for me Don't worry, be happy

I'm well aware that powers don't bring happiness. Like I said earlier, it's like being able to shoot 3 point shots in basketball. Some people can do it and get paid a lot of money, a lot of doors can be opened (college scholarships, for example), it can really turn your life around.... or you can be stuck with your same old problems. They are what they are. Well part of it is so that I don't want to jinx it (and I'm sure others don't either) When looking at my life, I can see things have made clear connections, there are certain things in my life that have happened and as a result, certain other things have happened. I am certainly very fortunate, or blessed, or whatever you want to call it, and I am very grateful for that..... but it's not like I want to go around saying, "oh look at me, I'm blessed!" Because, I dunno, what God giveth He can taketh away, I don't want to offend God and screw myself over here (even though, hey, look at what I'm doing!) But by the same token, there are some things that I must initiate. There are certain choices that I had to make, and if it weren't for those decisions other things might not have "fortuitously" happened. Then there's the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" sort of attitude that characterizes a lot of people, including my family and how I was brought up (work hard, help yourself, things of that nature). Let's not even get started on the earful I'd get from my parents if I came home one day and told them ("what I thought was") my destiny So, again, there is a little bit of give and take, I think. Seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall receive. But first you gotta seek and ask, or, if you are destined to be a Taoist immortal, maybe you don't. Then again, maybe you do. I wouldn't say miserly, so much as "I sacrificed a lot of this stuff, you sacrifice too". That sounds pretty petty to me. Now that's not to say EVERYONE is like that. I don't want to sound like too much of a suckup, but I've noticed that you've put out some DVD's that have what looks to be pretty good content, and you've talked about some of the effort you put into getting where you are yourself, so I definitely wouldn't put you in the "miserly" category, you'd be in the "generous" category Very nice

And what, pray tell, is that? And do you think that will stop an invisible evil government force controlled by evil aliens possessed by equally evil demons controlling the eternal damned from finding and stopping you? Switching to serious mode for a bit, from what I have heard you have to be pretty damned powerful for any "evil forces" to even take note of you- let alone actively work to stop you. 99.99999% of the time these feelings are self generated, unless you are that fraction of a minority which has made significant development in past lives, and just by coming in contact with knowledge that can help you advance you are alerting your age old enemies..... that's assuming you believe that stuff to begin with. So, in short, unless you are "the one", you are fine.

I would rather cast pearls before swine in the hopes that one day a beggar walks by and finds them, than to hold on to them and pretend like I can discern who's worthy and who is not..... but what do I know? I find this comment interesting as well, especially with so many "masters" who come up with any number of excuses reasons for why they can't don't demonstrate to the public..... "pearls before swine" is why we don't see telekinesis on roulette tables or fa jing in MMA.

So there's this huge flood in a small town one day, and this guy really believes that God will save him no matter what, and as his neighbors are leaving they say, "we're going to our parents' house that's on high ground, will you come with us?" And the man says, "no, God will save me." The water starts to rise, and the guy goes to the second story of his home. Some people from down the street come by in a boat, and ask him to get in, and the guy says, "no, God will save me." The water rises still, he climbs up onto the roof. A helicopter comes down and says, "climb on, we will rescue you." And he says, "no thanks, God will save me." The water rises and the man drowns. The dude goes up to heaven and asks God, "why didn't you save me?" And God says, "I gave you a nice neighbor, a boat, I even sent down a freakin' helicopter, what more did you want!?" You have to make an effort. As my family likes to say, God helps those who help themselves I do believe that there are gifts and things granted from other beings, but I also believe that humans have certain things they can cultivate on their own. That's not to say that God's blessings hurt

For the nice approach- When you realize the how and the why someone is acting the way they are doing, dealing with them becomes simple. You just don't even feed the demon, it doesn't have anything to throw back at you. I wonder if this thread has anything to do with the recent Kunlun thread, not that I want to bring up a locked topic, but this is certainly something to think about- Everyone in that thread could have walked away. EVERYONE. Certainly there were some "explicit" responses made by people, an obvious "throwing back" at you.... but SOMEONE had to throw something to have it thrown back. It's as simple as that. The fact that certain people didn't just walk away says something about their own demons. As a martial artist and as someone who thinks that everyone has a right to know how and be able to defend themselves, I hate the phrase "it takes two to fight", but really, it takes two to fight. Want to deal with a demon? Don't feed it. It's hard, it means you have to deal with your own demons in the process. Now, the overfeeding approach- It can be good, and it can be not good. For some people, an "overfed demon" as it were serves as a wakeup call. They can see the effects plain as day. There is no guesswork involved as to the source of the problem (they can't blame it on this or that). So in that sense, it can help them get a grip on themselves, know what is good for them and what is bad, what is natural and what is foreign. It can also be bad. It takes an immense psychological and physical toll. I wouldn't say that organ failure, for instance, is too far outside its scope, maybe even heart attack or death (no, seriously). You are essentially giving a bad thing something that it wants, and if you don't succeed in killing it, and it winds up having its way, then the person in question will likely wind up suffering more. 9 times out of 10, I'd say use the "nice" approach. When all else fails, try the "overfeed" approach.

So I googled "how to turn a hatchling into a dragon" and uh..... it's not quite what we're talking about here ... maybe you should rock the boat a little bit?

Yeah, that's the other side of it. If you are just hoping to get abilities to solve your problems, chances are you are going about it the long way. There is no "short and easy" about it. So are you uh.... interested in divulging some of these methods to aspiring sith lords?

Hm, wow, a lot of interesting responses here I had no idea to even think about how they are handled in other countries, there goes my America-centricity for you It's not that American doctors are superstitious per se, it's a preventative treatment, because incoming wisdom teeth can screw up the placement of other teeth, cut into nerves of other teeth which can lead to those teeth dying, and other such things... at least, that's what they say. Which is why I wanted to get some opinions from you guys. Definitely some great responses so far, I'd love to hear from more people, especially from those outside the US (even though all Americans know we're the only ones with good teeth, people in other countries mouths look like train wrecks )

Let's broaden this a little bit- how far reaching is "Tao"? Is it limited to Taoism and the Chinese point of view. What about Buddhists? If there is one all encompassing Tao, then surely Buddhists who have attained enlightenment have found that Tao? And Christian mystics who have communed with or become one with God, if not joined with the Tao, have at least glimpsed the Tao? And Pagans of various traditions that interact with various energies have surely experienced the Tao? And Native American Indians who have soared the skies on the eagle's wings and seen through its eyes have uncovered at least a bit of the Tao? And that goes for any and all people, and all spiritual paths, even atheists, that each uncover the Tao in their own way, assuming the Tao is something that is indeed universal and which everyone is encircled by and united in. Then again, knowledge as "given" and knowledge as "problematic" is another duality, so the answer must transcend either one. It must be both, yet neither. There are paths in which the knowledge is given, others in which it is problematic, others in which it is not so clear. If all of them are (pieces of, at least), the Tao, then all of them are right, but that means neither of them are. But the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao, so what I said isn't really the Tao. Some traditions hold that you must "learn", others hold that you must "remember" (stuff that you forgot), but they all go to the same place (at least they appear to) The Tao transcends, perhaps?

It depends on your goal. If your goal is enlightenment, liberation, whatever, then any abilities gained in that pursuit would be just as limiting as being attached to money, women, material possessions, and things like that. For many people here, they have made peace with their place in this material world, maybe they have a job or a family, and their goal is that inner stillness and peace, maybe even liberation or enlightenment. Anyway, that's why many people say things like, "well that's not the point" or "it'll only distract you" when the topic of abilities comes up. But if your GOAL is to get those abilities, well then that's your goal, and saying "that's not the point" or "it'll only distract you" doesn't make sense because that's what you're going for But you have to be honest with yourself. Those abilities are just those abilities, nothing less, but certainly nothing more. It won't (necessarily) solve problems like self esteem, personal image, how well you get along with people. It's like being able to shoot a 3 pointer in basketball. You can spend hundreds of hours learning to do it. Is it going to make you a better person? Is it going to resolve the problems in your life? Some people get paid thousands of dollars for being able to make hard shots in a basketball game, you can become a pro and make lots of money, which can solve (or at least change) a lot of problems. But you have to realize it for what it is. It's putting a ball in a goal, nothing more, nothing less. Abilities are what they are. They may or may not help you see through whatever you think there is to see through on your way to liberation (if that's your goal). They may ensnare you just like money or attention from others. So be honest with yourself, all I can say. The funny thing is that there are conflicting stories about these abilities. Some say that you can only get them by being virtuous and following a spiritual path, and that they will arise as a result of you seeing through the illusion, or else arise as a means of tempting you into staying attached to this material world. So the only way to get them is to not want them. Other people say that abilities exist regardless of your moral or spiritual growth, and there are lots of stories of yogis or other masters that "go rogue" by abusing their acquired abilities for personal gain, which seems to suggest that you wanting or not wanting them has little to no effect. The trick is to finding ways to gain these abilities in the first place. A lot of people say, "doing such and such exercise may lead to such abilities as...." keyword being "may", and they are never really explicit on what to do. But I mean, if they were, then everyone would be going after those powers. If Mo Pai or something put out "10 steps to lighting newspapers on fire" then we'd be in trouble, right? Maybe, maybe not. It takes a lot of work to develop these things (from what I understand, unless it's just seeing through the illusion, in which case, there's only one thing you gotta do, see through the illusion, but that's the trick right there), so even if the secret IS out there (hence, not really a secret to begin with), people aren't taking it up. So yeah, kinda long post, but that's pretty much all I have to say. If you really want to gain abilities, you won't find too much help here. We're a lofty bunch (or at least, we like to think of ourselves as a lofty bunch........)

I'm also young, and I peeked... so I'll make a deal with you, in 20 years, when I'm old enough to look, I'll think about not looking a second time....... However, in the meantime..... lol.

This was interesting, and it reminded me of a certain anime, and super strong characters in this anime have high spiritual pressure, and if you are a weak person, when you encounter high spiritual pressure you will feint or drop to your knees, as seen here: The sound quality sucks, but it's just a bunch of characters that are releasing their spiritual pressure, and people who aren't strong enough to take it suffer. It's not inherently bad it's just that if you aren't at the appropriate level, you will feel negative effects. Similar thing? Good post.

What was that story of the guy who went to learn zen, and after he had meditated for the first time the master asked him what happened, and the guy says, "nothing" And the teacher goes, "oh, you are very advanced indeed!"

Am I the only one that appreciates what New Dawn Fades has brought to this discussion? He raises good points about the terminology used- "neigong", about how the practice seems to be lop sided- always "letting go", no prescribed movements, and letting whatever energy arise, "bliss out", and all of that stuff. I'm not saying the system itself is bad or that it won't produce results- but I think it is important to note that, working under the assumption that this is a high level practice- this would historically only have been learned/practiced at the end of a long initiation. Plenty of mental disciplinary practices, lots of grounding work, prescribed movements and postures, and controlled energy work. Using a snake analogy, the Kunlun practice as we all know and (some of us) love would be the head of the snake, where the snakey eyes (and maybe fangs! ) are. But a snake isn't just a head, it has a very long body as well. Perhaps for some people who do not have particular adjustments made, either by previous practices or there naturally, this may be a lop sided practice. The Kunlun book provides a lot of practices that aren't just the spontaneous movement, and I think that's pretty interesting (and good).

In Hermetic philosophy (as I understand it), what you have described as "negative" things are really just negative expressions of certain qualities. They may be an excess of that quality, or a deficiency in that quality. Take your hurt, rape, and pillage example. Those all are considered to be negative things. But what positive things do they represent? Your ability to hurt someone reflects your own physical strength, rape also physical strength but an ability to control, and pillage your ability to take what you need. All of those qualities can be used positively- you can use physical strength to protect and defend someone. You can control a situation or another person for the greater good, and you are a provider. Those qualities, I imagine, were even more necessary historically- where your ability to survive depended a lot on physical strength, and your status in society was partially determined by how you could exhibit your ability to dominate and control others. Nowadays it's much more likely for us to consider such acts as "violent and bad", but keep in mind they are just one side of the coin. As a side note, I find these things really helpful in terms of dream interpretation and lucid dreaming (discounting the fact that many dream signs are unique to an individual), especially with nightmares and other sorts of bad dreams- by analyzing what qualities appear to you, you can see what you have problems with and perhaps even means of expressing them. I was reading somewhere about how the word "evil" evolved, and I think that one of its forms from back in the day was "something in excess", which is another way to look at things. Now, motivations and your reasons for doing those things arise from imbalances. A need to hurt a sibling, or rape a woman, or steal something, all reflect a feeling of inner weakness that you perceive, and you are acting out to try and compensate for that imbalance.

This I feel is very important and has helped me a lot. You can learn something from everything, if you are open and willing to learn, and not be picky about who is teaching it. There have been tons of times when I'm wondering about a topic, or have a question, and someone has answered it already in a forum post when I log in, or I turn on the tv and see someone talking about the subject and it sheds new light, or someone brings up a closely related topic out of the blue. Keep asking questions, be open, and enjoy

I'm halfway through the first vid and so far it looks like Franz Bardon's Pore Breathing.

When I was a kid I really liked the movie Titan A.E. I had the soundtrack to it, but it got jammed in the CD player, then the car that it was in got totaled, and sufficed to say, I failed to recover the CD. Now, several years later, my parents got me the soundtrack again as a gift because they saw it on sale, remembered how we had lost it so.... I've been listening to that sound track a lot. Particularly this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuzbnV8mks...=PL&index=5

I don't much care for drama, I don't much care for hype, I just want to know what a practice can do, what I can expect from a practice. I don't much like the whole: "People experience all kinds of things with this practice!" "Like what?" "Like all sorts of stuff." "Like.....?" "All sorts of stuff." "Some people say that you start to see spirits, is that true?" "You wouldn't believe me even if I told you." Well........ I would, that's why I'm asking. If it's unbelievable, if it's mundane, if it's something you've personally done (even better), great, I would like nothing more than to hear it... it's just that it's rare these days for someone to even talk honestly about it.