9th

Mind has no substance; it is void, less than a smallest atom. When seer and seen are both eliminated, the View is truly realized. As for the Practice — in the Stream of Illumination, no stages can be found. Perseverance in Practice is confirmed when actor and acting are both annulled. In the Realm of Illumination, where subject and object are one, I see no cause, for all is void. When acting and actor disappear, all actions become correct. The finite thoughts dissolve in Dharmadhâtu; the eight worldly winds [loss-gain, pleasure-pain, praise-blame, health-illness] bring neither hope nor fear. When the precept and the precept-keeper disappear, the [moral] disciplines are best observed. By knowing that the Self-mind is Dharmakâya Buddha’s Body Absolute deed and doer disappear. Thus the glorious Dharma triumphs. In answer to his disciples’ questioning, this is the happy song the old man sings! - Milarepa

...In Nomine Spiritus Sancti...

Its a "which came first? chicken or the egg?" proposition. He says "when we straighten the teeth, they dont stay straightened". The exact same principal applies to his idea about the position of the jaw. The skeleton functions as a whole unit, thats why the jaw affects posture in the first place. However, as many here are already aware, there are underlying energetic systems which support the body in even more fundamental ways.

Its not an "either/or" situation. You have indeed inhaled, then exhaled your breath - sequentially - in order to remain alive in this life. Beyond this life is the source from which all life arises. The timeless is indeed timeless, and it contains and expresses the infinite potential all space/time matrices, endlessly. You wont be comprehending this from a human perspective, thats for damn sure.

A little late to be worrying about an infestation around here, dont you think?? Thats why its best to "bury the bone so deep that the dogs have to scratch for it."

You could call it the application of continuously progressive force in an increasingly skillful way, I suppose. I prefer for multidimensional ideas to remain that way, if possible. Especially if its hard to "wrap your head around". Bodhidharma Padmasambhava

All true statements. In a somewhat related note, it seems that the "baptism" which John advocated, and which has become so famous through the Christian tradition - was a manufactured near-death experience. John didnt just dunk people in the river, he held them down until they began to drown - then pulled them back up to be "born again". This was perhaps a bit extreme, but that was the way of the apocalyptic cults known to be operating in this area at this time. It wasnt haphazard or reckless, but it certainly was dangerous - which is the point of a "life and death" encounter. It can really crystallize your inner essence.

Yes, I would say the world is the guru. Some people might call it the "universe" or whatever, but I often hear that as a code word for "God". When we talk of the "tao" it is not quite the same thing - but in general I dont think people have investigated all these concepts in enough depth to really make the fine discernment needed to understand the differences in the face of what is similar... its usually just an amorphous mystery to which they ascribe various names and ideas according to the whim of the moment. It is widely known amongst those who practice in such a way that the "outer guru" is only a bridge to the "inner guru", which isnt to lessen the status or position of such teachers, but rather to indicate the objective of the practice. However depending on the style of the tradition involved and the people engaged in it, the "outer guru" may be worshipped in a devotional way which tends to obscure the point, at best, IMHO. In the worst cases, people can become literally addicted to the satsang and the energy of the guru (shaktipat, etc) exactly like any other drug experience. In modern terminology you could say that by virtue of the more coherent energetic form embodied by the accomplished person known as "guru", the less coherent energy of the students is "entrained" or harmonized to the same frequency. In other words, just by being around the guru or in their sphere of influence, the student is in many ways raised up to that level in their own inner being. This allows the student to deal with their issues with the full support of realization, even though they have not attained it for themselves. I have always considered the idea of Christianity as one of the most extreme examples of "guru yoga" possible, but in practice of course it is not that way at all. The idea of giving yourself over to an "avatar" in body, mind and soul - letting them do it for you - letting them "eat your sins", etc. - its an old world idea. Like training wheels on a bicycle, it is certainly not "necessary" or even beneficial at all past a certain temporary stage - when speaking of evolution and progressive development. Teddy bears, pacifiers, etc.

I was born in the home of bluegrass. Moved back about a few decades ago. Im not a fan of most of it. In the backwoods, some of the oldtimers and their kin play it in a way you can still hear the celtic roots. That stuff is really interesting, but im mostly a city slicker when it comes to music. In other things, not so much.

Balancing the equation is a noble pursuit - good luck to you!

Life is an economy of energy, with most of it unseen and unheard, and yet vitally fundamental to the core of reality. Exchanges and transactions and so forth - and this movement of energy is the driving force of all things and perceptions. It goes far beyond ideas of input/output, because that is only one dimension of the actuality. However we must start from where we are at, by investigating the principals of affirming, denying, and reconciling. The multidimensional does not play by the same rules that humanity has chosen for themselves, but the basic "building blocks" of reality are the same everywhere. Discussions and descriptions and as you say, stories - are an extremely superficial layer coating the surface of these mechanics. By their reductive nature, they help to impose and reinforce incredibly limited binary outlooks that only contribute to the "me" illusion and its complications in the face of reality. They are not necessarily needed (in most cases), but they have become convenient for people. I would say far too convenient, but that is only IMHO.

Perhaps because he is full of shit? It seems quite likely given the exchanges in this thread - however, it may require further research to confirm this. I suggest a formal debate, with an appointed mediator. Bright and shiny ribbons of glory shall be awarded to the victor.

ye olde raspberry the sound of puckered asses just farting away

Morality fluctuates according to time and place. It is a man-made invention, used to shape society. It was once highly moral and virtuous to burn witches at the stake. In some middle eastern countries, morality dictates that a thief should have their hand cut off. Alternately, what is usually referred to as real virtue in terms of spiritual cultivation is directly related to concience - in other words, it is directly related to the feeling of compassion as well as empathy. It has nothing to do with peoples ideas of what is "good" or "bad" - which again, fluctuates greatly according to time, place, culture, etc. Conscience is internal, and not engineered or invented by the human mind. Concience is a faculty of perception which already exists and is something we are born with. However, as a rule it is almost never awake or active in people. This is how our society was built and is further maintained - through ignorance regarding the full spectrum of consequences of our actions. When conscience is awake and active, it is impossible to ignore these consequences and any internal hypocrisy is a source of great existential pain. Conscience must be buried and hidden and covered up for hypocrisy to flourish. Self-destruction and conscience are mutually exclusive. It will help to parse these details, but only if you are able to actually accept the reality behind them.

Right, Id be more inclined to say they were at least similar if not the same thing. However, siddhis are just a result of technical application of techniques that are not widely known and practiced. Its simply a matter of training, talent and skill - much like a person who becomes an athlete and then a "champion" of some sort. Its just a combination of these applied forces. Of course, it is also possible for siddhis to occur as a side effect of practices which are being applied towards "spiritual realization". This is inevitable for some people on some paths. It can cause complications or not, but the point is that they are not realization itself. Power is a means to achieve an end. Realization is beyond means or ends. The indication that power is required to make way for realization may well be true for some, and those people will have to work this out for themselves. Also, it is best to keep in mind that a human idea of "perfection" is not neccesarily the actuality of real perfection. The Tao Te Ching goes into great detail on this topic, and repeats it in various permutations.

This is a common problem, mostly due to our western culture's unfamiliarity with such aspects of reality. In India, it is commonly known that siddhis (powers, magic) and psychic abilities are not the same thing as "spiritual advancement". They have been dealing with this kind of thing for thousands of years, and its well known. Especially people who are born with psychic abilities may be just as much of a bastard as anyone else - and they often are to some degree, because when it comes to humanity, power corrupts. In fact, I have met clairvoyants who are essentially nothing more than peeping toms that view everyone's internal world as their own private reality tv show. It is much, much easier for someone with "supernatural powers" to become very depraved. Just the same with "rich" people, or those in positions of "authority" and so on. This is what happens to so-called gurus like muktananda who attain abilities and find themselves in a position to exploit large numbers of people quite easily. It takes restraint to overcome such temptation, and as long as you are still living in a human body you will be fallible and subject to the human condition. I think the most popular example of an abusive guru with siddhis in our culture is Bubba Free John, aka Adi Da - who was actually a student of Muktananda. The story there is incredibly long and pretty fascinating - so if you are interested then by all means check it out. Secondly, the institution of the "guru" as such is dying. That era has passed, at least in terms of the ancient views. There are now too many people on this planet for it to remain as it was, and the world itself as well as the collective mind is moving on, for better or worse. The teachers of today are required to take a more nuanced approach, simply due to the current nature of the task before them. Personally, I would never set out to be a teacher, much less a "guru" - its a recipe for disaster. There is a whole world of dynamics involved in those systems of guidance and benefaction, the give and take of it all, and all the psychological issues that go along with it - on BOTH SIDES. The real work of modern cultivators is resolving such dynamics back into their place as occurrences in natural reality - as opposed the formalized structure created by human society.

Hopefully this thread has given you something you can work with in terms of dealing with these difficulties, and I wish you luck - its all part of the process. Perseverance is the key to this work!

People get scared of many things because they have been domesticated. They are no longer feral. If you encounter someone who was raised by wolves in a forest, its going to take every bit of training you've got to keep them from biting a chunk out of your face or ripping your testicles off. It wont be a "street fight", it will be an attempt to fend off a predatory animal. And yet there are still far too many "bad asses" out there. But there is a quick and easy solution. You see, violence is being perfected in so many ways each and every day. Lately, its all about technology.