9th

http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PP.html The pentagram and hexagram were both used for protection in ancient Greece (V cent. BCE). In Babylon, five-, six- and seven-rayed stars were all used. The pentagram appears in the earliest writing of Mesopotamia (precuneiform pictographic writing), c. 3000 BCE, as the Sumerian sign UB. Its meaning in the cuneiform period (by 2600 BCE) seems to be a Heavenly Quarter and also the four directions (forward, backward, left, right); the fifth direction was "above." The four directions corresponded to the planets Jupiter, Mercury, Mars and Saturn, with Venus the Queen of Heaven (Schekina) above. These are the "Smaller Planets" (omitting Sun and Moon). Ishtar (Venus) was represented by the Eight-rayed Star (Elam). See De Vogel (App. A) and Black & Green (s.v. Star). Pythagoras may have become acquainted with the Pentagram during his sojourns in Egypt and Babylon (perhaps 554-533 BCE); in any case the Pythagoreans used it as a sign of recognition (Iambl., Vita Pyth. XXXIII). They called the Pentagram "Hugieia," which is usually translated "Health," but has more the sense of Soundness or Wholeness, and, more generally, any Divine Blessing (LSJ s.v. hugieia, Suppl. s.v. hugieia). (Hugieia comes from the same Indo-European root as gives us "quick" [i.e. living], "viva," "vital," "bios" [life], "zôê" [life] and "azoth." It has been traditionally associated with "vigor", "vigil" and the Latin words "vegetus" [lively, vigorous] and "vegeo" [to quicken], which come from the same Indo-European root at "Wicca" and "Witch.") The Pentagram was still used to mean "Hugieia" in Paracelsus' time (c.1493-1541). The Pythagoreans also used "Be sound / whole / blessed!" (Hugiaine!) as their greeting or password (Scholia in Aristoph., Nubes 609; Lucian, Pro lapsu 5). In fact Bonner (p. 177) notes that "Hugieia" is a fairly common inscription on amulets, and that Perdrizet thinks it and similar inscriptions are Oriental in origin (although the word is Greek). Hugieia (Hygeia) is also, of course, the Goddess of Health, called Salus by the Romans; She is the daughter of the God Aesculapius. The letters labeling the corners of the Pentacle are the first letters of Greek words for the Elements: U: Hudor = Water G: Gaia = Earth I: Idea = Form/Idea, or Hieron = a divine, holy thing EI: Heile = Sun's Warmth or Th: Therma = Heat A: Aer = Air Though the Theta may be explained as a joined Epsilon and Iota, we see here an alternative explanation, for either is an abbreviation for the Fiery Element. Notice how the pattern of the letters, UG/I/EIA or UG/I/ThA, matches the arch structure of the Pentacle; interestingly the Greek word Hugieia has a high-tone (acute) accent on the Iota (corresponding to Spirit), which seems appropriate. This seems to be the only arrangement of the Elements on the Pentagram that generates UGIEIA or UGIThA (let alone both) from plausible Element names. Also I should note that the above Element names are the usual ones that appear, for example, in Aristotle, except Fire, where Pur is used; however Empedocles (who discovered the Four Elements) uses Eelios = Sun, which is described as Thermos, for Fire (DK 31B 21; see also Kirk, Raven & Schofield 292-3). Also, although Aristotle uses Aither for the Fifth Element (Quintessence), Plato clearly associates it with the World of Forms (Ideai). I think Hieron (a holy, divine thing) is also appropriate for the Quintessence (which resides in the Celestial Sphere). To see what's going on more clearly, you might want to draw a Pentagram with a circumscribed Pentagon. It will be helpful later if you draw the Pentagram and Pentagon in contrasting colors. The lower trapezoid of the figure is then a (distorted) Square of Opposition representing the Four Mundane Elements Earth-Water-Air-Fire. Spirit stands above these, forming a pyramid over them. First observe that the Pentacle embodies the Physical Order of the Elements; if we stay on the Mundane level we have Earth-Water-Air-Fire, and we can make it a cycle counterclockwise (as in the Alchemical Circulation) by returning from Fire to Earth across the horizontal beam of the Pentagram. Likewise, the Pentacle includes the Extended Physical Order (the Metaphysical Order), which includes the ascent to Spirit: Earth-Water-Air-Fire-Spirit by a counterclockwise circuit. Of course we get the descent Spirit-Fire-Air-Water-Earth by going clockwise. In accord with the Organic Cycle, the points of the Pentagram correspond to the Stages of the Great Work in Alchemy. The first stage is Nigredo (Blackening), corresponding to Water-Cold-Winter-Saturn; it is the stage which causes the dissolution of old structures and their reduction to Prima Materia (Prime Matter). The next stage is Albedo (Whitening), corresponding to Air-Wet-Spring-Venus; it is the purification stage, in which the Prima Materia is cleansed so that it is devoid of all properties and can accept the Tincture. Next is Citrinitas (Yellowing), corresponding to Fire-Hot-Summer-Jupiter; it is the stage in which the Prima Materia receives the fiery Golden Tincture. Finally we have the Rubedo (Reddening), corresponding to Earth-Dry-Autumn-Mars; it is a paradoxical stage, for it is associated with Ios or Venenum, the Venomous Potion. It can be the highest stage of the Alchemical Process, the Iosis (becoming reddish-purple) in which the Philosophers Stone is produced, which has an excess of the Tincture, and so can transmute other matter. However, it can also be a stage of excess, the Adustio (Rusting or Browning) which destroys the Work accomplished (returning it to dry, inanimate matter), whose only use is as the raw material for another Nigredo. This is why the ascent to the Quintessence occurs between theCitrinitas and the Rubedo. In a proper rotation the substance will be progressively elevated until it reaches the Quintessence at the apex of the Pyramid. (See 10.Fortune in the Pythagorean Tarot for more on the rotation.)

At one of the meetings, to which a fairly large number of new people had been invited who had not heard G. before, he was asked the question: "Is man immortal or not?" "I shall try to answer this question," said G., "but I warn you that this cannot be done fully enough with the material to be found in ordinary knowledge and in ordinary language. You ask whether man is immortal or not. I shall answer. Both yes and no. "This question has many different sides to it. First of all what does immortal mean? Are you speaking of absolute immortality or do you admit different degrees? If for instance after the death of the body something remains which lives for some time preserving its consciousness, can this be called immortality or not? "Or let us put it this way: how long a period of such existence is necessary for it to be called immortality? Then does this question include the possibility of a different 'immortality' for different people? And there are still many other different questions. I am saying this only in order to show how vague they are and how easily such words as 'immortality' can lead to illusion. "In actual fact nothing is immortal, even God is mortal. But there is a great difference between man and God, and, of course. God is mortal in a different way to man. "It would be much better if for the word 'immortality' we substitute the words 'existence after death.' Then I will answer that man has the possibility of existence after death. But possibility is one thing and the realization of the possibility is quite a different thing. "Let us now try to see what this possibility depends upon and what its realization means." Then G, repeated briefly all that had been said before about the structure of man and the world. He drew the diagram of the ray of creation and the diagram of the four bodies of man [see Figs. 1, 3]. But in relation to the bodies of man he introduced a detail which we had not had before. He again used the Eastern comparison of man with a carriage, horse, driver, and master, and drew the diagram with one addition that was not there before. "Man is a complex organization," he said, "consisting of four parts which may be connected or unconnected, or badly connected. The carriage is connected with the horse by shafts, the horse is connected with the driver by reins, and the driver is connected with the master by the master's voice. But the driver must hear and understand the master's voice. He must know how to drive and the horse must be trained to obey the reins. As to the relation between the horse and the carriage, the horse must be properly harnessed. Thus there are three connections between the four sections of this complex organization [see Fig. 5b]. If something is lacking in one of the connections, the organization cannot act as a single whole. The connections are therefore no less important than the actual 'bodies.' Working on himself man works simultaneously on the 'bodies' and on the 'connections.' But it is different work. "As you see," he said, "there exist four quite different situations. In one case all the functions are controlled by the physical body. It is active; in relation to it everything else is passive. [see Fig. 5a.] In another case the second body has power over the physical. In the third case the 'mental' body has power over the 'astral' and the physical. And in the last case the fourth body has power over the first three. We have seen before that in man of physical body only, exactly the same order of relationship is possible between his various functions. The physical functions may control feeling, thought, and consciousness. Feeling may control the physical functions. Thought may control the physical functions and feeling. And consciousness may control the physical functions, feeling, and thought. "In man of two, three, and four bodies, the most active body also lives the longest, that is, it is 'immortal' in relation to a lower body." ... "For this it is necessary 'to be' If a man is changing every minute, if there is nothing in him that can withstand external influences, it means that there is nothing in him that can withstand death. But if he becomes independent of external influences, if there appears in him something that can live by itself, this something may not die. In ordinary circumstances we die every moment. External influences change and we change with them, that is, many of our I's die. If a man develops in himself a permanent I that can survive a change in external conditions, it can survive the death of the physical body. The whole secret is that one cannot work for a future life without working for this one. In working for life a man works for death, or rather, for immortality. Therefore work for immortality, if one may so call it, cannot be separated from general work. In attaining the one, a man attains the other. A man may strive to be simply for the sake of his own life's interests. Through this alone he may become immortal. We do not speak specially of a future life and we do not study whether it exists or not, because the laws are everywhere the same. In studying his own life as he knows it, and the lives of other men, from birth to death, a man is studying all the laws which govern life and death and immortality. If he becomes the master of his life, he may become the master of his death.

Id generally say that most people become interested in the occult as a means to an end - as a way to get something done through alternative means. Or they may be drawn to "power" or "hidden" knowledge for some reason or another. As far as your question about illumination - if you yourself do not have a specific idea of what it is, then it will be very difficult for you to receive an answer in the first place. For example, someone could explain it in detail and you would miss it because you would not know what to look for. That is why most esoteric traditions have a process of "initiation" which is considered an entrance into a new world altogether. Real initiation involves what has been called "transmission", which is the direct transfer of knowledge or states of being. The results may be immediate or not, but the effect is real and total - otherwise it is not an actual initiation but rather a fantasy or dream. And while most real practitioners will have multiple initiations into more and more subtle realms - the first initiation of this lifetime will be unique and significant in that sense. Beyond initiation have been termed stages such as neophyte, adept, master - which are fairly good reference points. At first you get your bearings, then you learn methods, then you perfect your own style. In all stages, the initiations remain the real thing - it literally takes years, even decades to understand and unravel all the secrets contained in such an event. The unfolding of the depths of understanding regarding your own personal initiation becomes your own personal illumination, which then bridges towards illumination of the universal. In terms of occult practices, I must reiterate - it goes on and on, further and further... far beyond siddhis for their own sake. In terms of public knowledge (in even the most obscure books), very little is known about the actual practice of what is called "magic"... and it cannot be another way... in the same way the sky cannot be red. It could be... but its not.

Feelings are not "wrong" or "right" - they are just feelings. Also there is a great deal of difference between experiencing emotion (usually called "feeling") and expressing emotion. Not only are the health related matters regarding expressing emotion much more debatable than those regarding experiencing emotion, the matters related to this simple turn of 'passive to active' is essential - and not arbitrary by any means. What seems in shortest supply of all, is clarity - on all fronts, in all areas, especially in anything "serious". Whenever assumptions and opinions are taken as facts, it will result in a fundamental and insurmountable problem in regards to actual facts. What is left over is the feeling of being "right", rather than someone else who is "wrong".

This is exactly what I mean by a "solution looking for a problem"... although that statement probably doesnt explain it very well. What I mean to say is that starting off from the perspective of civilization being inherently "sinful" or "evil" or "worldly" as being something inherently opposed to spirituality which is "holy" and "good" and "pure"... is the very root of the issue. The influences must mix, combine, transform each other into something better than they are individually on their own.

While Sheldrake correctly identifies the culture of belief systems themselves as being the culprit for the materialistic delusion, he doesnt go further than that - which is to say, he does not identify why everyone has a need to feel they fundamentally "know" what is going on. This occurs in all areas, it really has nothing to do with how deep or shallow your knowledge of a particular subject may be (and in this case, its almost always of a second hand nature anyways). In other words, the belief system itself is secondary to the need for self-righteousness. In those cases when a person is able to accept that they do not know, to whatever degree and for whatever reason - that is specifically the space which allows for real awareness to take place. The methodology of investigation and observation of reality through experimental procedure is technically labeled "scientific", but it is the same as the methods required in any real cultivation work. It is an effort towards mutual understanding of perception and that which is perceived, and the inter-relationships between them.

What is "the occult"? What is "illumination"?

Any discussion or comparison of the metaphysical elements will require some understand of their subtle nature, as in fire is that which consumes, air is that which gives motion and earth is that which gives structure, etc. etc. And in this regard, all of the ancient metaphysical systems have very strong, very real correlations - and furthermore they were not formed in cultural isolation.

only justified in the name of gods, nations home team victories

And I didnt misunderstand you - because I never claimed that a "particular predisposition" IS enough by itself - the idea of that should be laughable on its face - its obvious and goes without saying. Thats why I wondered why you had to chime in with such an obvious "debate" in the first place, as you offered your experiences with your students and so forth, apparently with such a fragile ego that it happened to shatter in the ensuing arguments. Unfortunately, thats not my problem.

this should go here:

This is an extremely interesting topic to me, because it touches on the economics of cultivation traditions that are largely removed from the marketplace. Its a strange situation to me, I personally see it as trappings of civilized humanity which devalues what has been called "spirituality". In the past, especially in terms of asian buddhism, begging is supposed to have benefits all around - it humbles the beggar, and allows the benefactor to feel they have helped someone .. and also, crucially, they get "merit" or good karma for it. People who are unfamiliar with buddhism as it has been practiced in the east (since ancient times) will not understand how much of a big deal "merit" is. And the concepts extends beyond that, certainly - but it seems like a "solution looking for a problem" imho.

the smell of the sea the sight-ing of the sun and the sound of the wind

And heres another translation that is probably better:

Yes the sramana tradition was already old by the time the rig veda was written down - which is most certainly at least a number of generations after a strictly oral tradition (seeing as they are verses of song, music). In particular: see the Kesin Hymn: And the dualistic conception of reality derives from the concepts of purusha (consciousness) and prakriti (natural phenomena), which is of course a bit more nuanced than those brief words and really parallels a number of systems and traditions in general. It forms the basis for hindu metaphysics and medicine in many ways.

Well, Ive already made that reply - specifically, regarding the concepts of "right" and "wrong". See above.

No one has done anything wrong, no one needs to apologize. It sounds like you have a bit of a thin skin, though. Really?? Heres a quote from your comment, the part I was responding to: So I guess what you are saying is that the 32 year old student who processed at the level of a 7th or 8th grader - was progressing fine anyways? You are saying he was inquisitive, but of below average intelligence - but he still progressed with no problems, as any other student? So then Im wondering - whats the problem? It seems a bit odd... just your whole line of reasoning is odd to me - from what I understand you are saying that the only quality that makes one suited for self-enquiry is high intelligence, high IQ. Skipping through everything else - Id disagree with that. Im going to reiterate my statement above, that inquisitiveness is a good sign for being suited to self-enquiry.

Hmm. This was the context I was talking about, the part I quoted above, where you talk about how in Buddhist terms its likened to "getting lost in the absolute": Seems pretty specific there, and thats what I was responding to. Its not that Im fixated on the word, it just seems like you are talking about a completely different thing than what I was saying - which is that, Id say in Buddhist terms dissatisfaction has nothing to do with "getting lost in the absolute" as you said above. So I disagree with that statement. Then I tried to provide an example as to why I disagree with it.

No not at all.. "numb" is the wrong idea. Think about it like this - if you are looking at a small pond from above, and there is some grass floating in it, you will notice it very clearly as it moves around. If you are looking at the entire ocean from above, and there is some grass floating in it, you wont notice it at all.

if only they knew! the most secret formula of the immortals!

No one is judging the quality (right or wrong) of your questions. However, I will go ahead and judge your behavior here as simple petulance. I realize you wish to appear knowledgeable, but you have failed. Perhaps it would be best to examine the nature of your motivations rather than abstractions of which you have little to no knowledge whatsoever?

heres another for the marbled one

not at all apparently you dont have your psychic eyes yet!