beancurdturtle

Don't I know that. I've been with women that we're completely unimpressed and unresponsive - and women that were mind-blowingly orgasmic. If it was me or my technique, there would be no difference from one woman to the other. I don't have a big enough ego to take credit for a woman's ability to enjoy sex. I just applaud when I get the opportunity to watch and participate.

Fairly common in my experience. My survey says about 10% have anything from noticable emmissions to 3 times or more what I can work up. Then there was that very special woman. We put towels down instead of sheets - by her 6th orgasm or so, everything within 8 feet had been sprinkled or drenched. Ah... Memories...

I'm thinking about what it seems to me what you mean by "ordinary being." As usual I'm not contending with your statement. Rather I'm expressing something similar from a different perspective. Let me know what you think if you wish. The more ordinary we are, the closer we are to our right way of being. As a newborn we are ordinary for a couple reasons: 1. because we haven't differentiated ourselves from everything around us 2. because we haven't learned that our actions can result in changes to what is around us, and we are thus in a state of acceptance As a newborn we haven't constructed all the dualist thoughts, opinions, preferences, habits, and such that separate us from being an integral ordinary being. And we are always ordinary underneath it all, we just cover it over with all the crap we learn. I should stop the train of thought there about the experience of a newborn, because I'm really thinking about being ordinary. Let me just express what came to my mind about being an "ordinary being." Seems to me, there's so much focus on becoming "enlightened," or a "master." So much attention on process and practice - like taoism vs. buddhism as you point out. It's like we've replaced materialistic and ego desires and objectives with cultivation desires and objectives. Hence the dualistic concept of "enlightened" and "ordinary." As a result, we are driven by the same attainment and achievement framework we've created - something a newborn doesn't yet have - and we've only swapped out motivators and objectives - materialism for enlightenment. We end up with a stagnated cultivation (that we cling to and espouse) focused on the process of cultivation rather than the objective of becoming ordinary (or enlightened, integral, a master, or what have you). It seems that in all the attention on what we will achieve with cultivation, what a special person we will be, and how our practice is the only way to get it done - we lose the fact that we are actually attempting to become integral, natural, at harmony, content, and even blissfully "ordinary."

But she is everywhere, just like HH the FSM, you can't leave her out.. : ) What about the chartreuse one? I heard he's in Cleveland waiting for Elvis at The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Probably the best advice given so far. Well said Steve. Prince, choose a method and start. Find a good guide for that method. Stick to it. If - down the road - something else feels more in harmony with your nature, don't be afraid to examine it. Like water, keep moving in a direction towards growth and understanding - you will find the most appropriate path. Be well, be at peace,

Hmmmm... Now that would be interesting also. Some of the Zhuangzi with commentary I've read loses its freshness and humor through over analysis. Done well it should be like annotated Shakespeare - give enough context and vocabulary to better appreciate the humor, and polish the truth within it. I think a lot of the power of Zhuangzi comes from the humor. Sometimes the best way to see our misunderstandings is to hold up a mirror and make us laugh at them. I appreciate the offer, sincerely. Through 24 years of study I've come across a great deal of terms and concepts regarding the tao - and a good deal of BS as well. Yet there's always something new to learn. I purchased Revealing the Tao Te Ching because of the careful consideration of the meaning, clarity of writing, and sincerity of purpose I sensed in the writing you posted. Well done. Thank you for your considerate advice brother. Peace,

Brother Lin, I appreciate your comments. Reading your thoughts, a question comes to mind. The question is in the context of my belief, "the base meaning and value of any given thing lies in the purpose it fulfills." In this case, what purpose does god (the Judeo-Christian god) commonly fullfill to believers? The common prayers to the western god, or "god-mind," are for absolution from sin or guilt, requests for strength to prevent sinning in the future, and to fulfill material or emotional desire. What makes up the communication when a cultivator in your description communicates with the god-mind? Peace,

I wasn't asking what a random Christian's concept of god was. I was asking "How would you describe the Christian God?" Not the mythology, not the "deeper" meaning, simply - your brief description. What makes you so well informed about me that you can judge my level of understanding of either the dao or of the Christian god? And what about your illusion of my lack of understanding is understandable? Or is that just subtle one-upmanship? My description is about what base purpose god and fulfills for most believers in god. You are focusing on the centuries of mythology, the "deeper meaning" of the mythology, the dogma and so forth. My perspective is that the base meaning and value of any given thing lies in the purpose it fulfills. That is why I described god as I did. I was a Christian for 24 years. I have been studying daoism for 24 years. I understand both - whether you have the capacity to believe so or not. Do you truly feel that "That is a statement of misunderstanding, to say the least." is not a dismissal? If you had said "that is a very simplistic statement." I would agree with you. Instead you dismissed it as a "statement of misunderstanding." It is a limited definition. But it is a valid definition if you ask, "What base purpose does the Christian god serve for believers?" I can tell you the purpose for a shovel (a scoop like tool for moving dirt), or I can tell you what wood the handle is made of, what color the paint is, how much rust is on the blade, etc. From which description will you better understand what a shovel really is? And the meaning of your last sentence here has escaped me. The deeper (and possibly original) meaning of the Western concept of "God" has very little to do with whether there is a correlation between the Christian concept of god, and the dao. Look, Azoro refined his original question: "That's the distinction I'm trying to get at. In Taoism, is there the concept of a supreme being that would intervene in the affairs of men (or the universe for that matter), because that is implied in Christianity, or is the belief that the Tao IS, and is everywhere, and we strive to become one with that essence, but that direct intervention is not part of the equation?" With brevity and focus, I answered his question. I'm not sure what drives your need to dismiss my statements, and question - or rather completely discount - my understanding. Where does your need to feel superior come from?

Hmmm yes. I read it again. Very interesting translation. I found the link to the book. I bought it. Thank you,

Well said, thank you.

Why would you do something you are sorry for? Are you sorry for being arrogant? Are you sorry for being self righteous? Are you sorry that, through the conditioning of your Acquired Education, your mind is so blinder bound by the teaching, dogma, and ritual of your school that you haven't the capacity to see - or even grant the possibility - of truth beyond it? These questions are not meant to be confrontative. But they come to my mind as I wonder why a student of dao would make judgmental, superior, and unnecessary statements that they are sorry for making. In any case, I do appreciate the translation and elucidation of DDJ chapter 38. Is it possible to find your school's translations for all chapters online or published. I think I would enjoy reading it, though it's quite complex for a new student of dao. Over 20 years of studying, I've probably read at least one translation for every year of study - so I understand what is expressed here. Have a safe trip,

Please tell me your understanding of the meaning "Union with Tao." I assume it means something different in the understanding of your practice then it means to me. By my understanding, we have no option. We are always in union with the dao. We can be out of harmony with the dao, through discontent, desire, etc. But we cannot escape the fact that we are manifest from the dao. Some people remain discontent, petty, fearful and grasping all their life. Eventually when they die the reality that they are in union with the dao becomes inescapable. There is nothing I know of in the Dao de Jing that says the goal is union with the dao. There is much about being in harmony, living with acceptance, being impartial, and being benevolent. All these lead to harmony, balance, and contentment - so we can live a common life in conscious union with the dao. I may question the necessity of your path, but I would never argue against the validity of your path. Though I have lots of experience with students of Taoist Internal Alchemy insisting that there is no such thing as philosophical daoism, and effecting an attitude of superiority and deeper wisdom. And I would say that I am a student of ancient daoism, or philosophical daoism by another western term. I actualize the philosophy of the Dao de Jing and Zuangzi in my life daily. I am the beneficiary of "Taoist Internal Alchemy" when I go to my Chinese doctor. I have also studied the I Ching and read The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine. I understand the concepts of Taoist Internal Alchemy. I have been to religious daoist temples, and studied some of the concepts. I have close relatives who practice religious daoism and go to temple at least once every week. And it is a simple fact that I need neither a daoist school or practice, or a daoist temple, to actualize the philosophy for living in the Dao de Jing. This does not mean that Taoist Internal Alchemy or daoist religion are not without profound value. Ah! here it is again. So is your brand of daoism superior to my common brand. Hehehe. Don't worry, you haven't offended me. I am used to this attitude - and in fact was surprised it took this long to manifest. My friend, there is no other kind of person than a common person. I have the outlook of a common person who is a philosophical daoist. Most common people seek to find reason for things they don't understand and fear, something to blame for what they see as failings in themselves or disappointment in their life, and some way to process and make sense of "why am I here." Hence the invention of all these comforting illusions, like god, religion, ritual, and some "practices." Oddly enough, when a person actualizes harmony, living with acceptance, being impartial, and being benevolent, then misunderstanding, fear, blame, disappointment, and all these things have no more influence over them. If you imagine yourself to be uncommon, you have fallen into a trap of the ego. I know the outlook you take. I have participated in daoist practices in the past. It seems that you might have an inability to acknowledge that there is a way to be daoist other than through your school or practice. It's become comical to me - like a fundamentalist Christian telling a Jew that the Jew will go to Hell unless they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. Here is what I see to be the core question. "So How does One Get Started?" The student asked about meditation because they made the assumption that they needed a practice, or needed to learn to meditate more effectively. My assertion is that the first thing a student should do is understand the core concepts of any subject they choose to study. The core concepts of daoism are in the Dao de Jing. If the student starts already assuming they need a practice, then there will be confusion - because there are so many schools and practices, and they all have ego and self righteousness to at least some extent. So, trim the fat, get to the root. Read and understand the Dao de Jing. Then you will be prepared to recognize appropriate and valid schools or practices. Peace, Dao de Jing - Chapter 38 上德不德，是以有德﹔ 下德不失德，是以无德。 上德无为而无以为﹔ 下德无为而有以为。 上仁为之而无以为﹔ 上义为之而有以为。 上礼为之而莫之应， 则攘臂而扔之。 故失道而后德，失德而后仁， 失仁而后义，失义而后礼。 夫礼者，忠信之薄，而乱之首。 前识者，道之华，而愚之始。 是以大丈夫处其厚，不居其薄﹔ 处其实，不居其华。故去彼取此。 Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted; Closely held beliefs are not easily released; So ritual enthralls generation after generation. Harmony does not care for harmony, and so is naturally attained; But ritual is intent upon harmony, and so can not attain it. Harmony neither acts nor reasons; Love acts, but without reason; Justice acts to serve reason; But ritual acts to enforce reason. When the Way is lost, there remains harmony; When harmony is lost, there remains love; When love is lost, there remains justice; And when justice is lost, there remains ritual. Ritual is the end of compassion and honesty, The beginning of confusion; Belief is a colourful hope or fear, The beginning of folly. The sage goes by harmony, not by hope; He dwells in the fruit, not the flower; He accepts substance, and ignores abstraction.

My heart is in harmony with nature, accepting, and fully content. That is the goal, right? If not, then why the quest to rid your heart of all desire, passion and stray thought? It is possible to have passion and contentment at the same time. It is possible to have thoughts and contentment at the same time. I don't think it's possible to have desire and contentment at the same time. This is an unnatural state for a human being. We use the same muscles to move as we do to remain unmoving - either requires an effort. "Unmoving" is an illusion of stillness. We use the same meta-consciousness to clear our mind as we do to inspire thought - either requires an effort. You cannot be conscious of being without thought, and not have thought at the same time. I didn't say that it is easy, but it is possible. Yet everyone doesn't do it. Because then they would be fully responsible for their lack of right actions and thoughts. It's much more convenient to conceive of it as being difficult, to invent proxies, excuses, and absolutions like god, the devil and religion. I haven't heard many say they have obtained a state of being free from stray thought and passion, or of profound acceptance and contentment. Regardless, how does crossing ones legs and sitting in an unmoving state for four hours prove that this someone is free from stray thought and passion? You assume a practice is necessary. Achieving the goal of contentment, and right thoughts and actions, is possible without a practice. Groovy! I'd be happy to. The first step is understanding the goal. That comes from study. Which is why I posted the link: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry43598 which points to http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/Menu/VertikalVergleich.html The second step is to actualize the understanding of the goal, in your life, through mindful living. Like this (cut and paste from something I wrote elsewhere): To do it, we have to understand that we are creatures of habit, but not simply reactive creatures. Then we need a threshold of understanding of how to live in accordance with The Way so we can begin to change inappropriate habits and habitual responses. This takes the 24/7 vigilance of an internal coach, because doing it part-time only gets it partly done. As we practice and get better, as our sphere of sentience becomes more integrated and harmonized with our environment, then the internal coach can step aside. One day, we finish a day and realize the coach never stepped in. Then the "Holy Cow!" realization springs to our head again. That's when we've stepped from living mindfully to actualization. Occasionally we will still need the coach to step in, and the coach should be on call 24/7. The realization here is knowing that our mind-energy can be directed and experienced in a completely different way then how we are taught. For example, our reaction to stresses and stimulus is different. Stress doesn't translate directly to high blood pressure - instead, the cause is accepted, and the response is appropriate and tuned towards creating harmony. Insults or things that infuriated us before become humorous because we know that even our perception of self and everything is only perception and mostly irrelevant to here and now. I agree with you here for the most part. But the pure nature is never broken. We only distance ourselves from it with the distractions you mention. Then the distractions become perceived as more important than the pure nature, like symptoms can be perceived as more important than a disease, and a practice can become perceived as more important than the goal. There are two steps to actualizing a life of harmony, acceptance, and contentment. 1. Understanding what harmony, acceptance, and contentment is. You can learn this from the Dao de Jing and Zhuangzi. 2. Then actualize it through mindful living as described above. Eventually (after perhaps a few years) the mind steps aside, and you are there. Peace,

And a true thought. The trouble with putting god into familiar terms is, once done, you have objectified god (or at least the concept of god) - god is now a manifest thing. Anything manifest - things, thoughts, concepts, all - are manifest from the dao. The more base trouble with having a manifest, all powerful god is; where did this god manifest from?