beancurdturtle

My silly, precious Meowster. I should admit I am secretly smitten by you. And I should be blushing - because it's no longer a secret. Put out your claws kitty - and prepare to shred my un-funny Philosophical Taoist Top Ten list of the night. You are a silly goose - and I am much sillier yet. And in this enumerated point, I have "called you a name." Previously I questioned "Why is it that people who 'practice' - yada yada - can be so chauvinistic?" Ok, sure - I proffered the cloak of chauvinism with a flourish, but I didn't require you to shuck it on. And, to be fair, I should have used "some people." If you were offended - I apologize. I was writing English when I wrote "Just be." Chinese linguistics has nothing to do with that oversimplified statement. My grasp of Chinese is so-so (马马虎虎), just as is the grasp of my tongue when it's in my cheek. Both of these grasps are sometimes being, and other times doing. And speaking of doing. I haven't smoked pot for 27 years. I have studied Laozi, Zhuangzi, and other Taoist classics for 21 years. I was very much into the Taoist Arts and Practices for the first 8 of those 21 years. I haven't owned a television for 13 years. Which roughly coincides to the time period in which I have been a pot smoking, TV watching, armchair "Philosophical Taoist." Well, that without the pot, the TV, or the armchair. I already conceded that the label "Philosophical Taoist" is an unfortunate oxymoronic, misleading, misnomer. But a lame label doesn't make the thing labeled moot. The vernacular of the common Chinese (受理道教者 accepts Taoism), and my tenuous grasp of the use of English has nothing to do with the question "Is there such a thing as Philosophical Taoism?" My assertion that there is such a thing as Philosophical Taoism, backed by my woefully inadequate understanding of Taoism, stands as a battered wheat-stalk against the tornado of your scholarly protestations. And yet, Philosophical Taoism is a doing that many people do, including myself. And regardless of your assertion that it is not done - it is. And some people actually do it well. I like your energy and your attitude, and respect your knowledge. If we were in the same room I might try to kiss you - if I could just climb out of this damned armchair. Peace baby,

Once you realize that thinking, or not thinking, of the white monkey are both irrelevant - then you can be Alice and start talking to the white rabbit instead. Who happens to be equally irrelevant. Doing is overrated - Just be. Good comments.

*raising a figurative glass* To "happy pancakes" my friend. Be at peace.

This time I'm not simply amused, I am even a bit bemused. Why is it that people who "practice" - internal alchemy, Taoist magic, tantric meditation, Christianity, Islam, or what have you - can be so chauvinistic? You are correct, it is not Taoism of any denomination. However, if it is a denomination, it has been abstracted from Taoism - reference the TTJ chapter 1. If you define, ritualize, codify, denominate, or practicize anything - you have removed it by some degree from what it truly is at the core. This concept is all through the TTJ, and Zhaungzi has great sport with the concept in his exploration of the meaning and power of words. (In case you couldn't tell, I think Zhuangzi is dandy!) This argument is irrelevant. Who believes or disbelieves me is of little concern to me. If you asked Laozi what school or sect his "practice" was based on, how do you suppose he would answer? This is like saying a cat cannot be a cat unless you can identify it's breed. Furthermore, Chinese society - and to some degree Vital Taoism, and a large degree Religious Taoism - is stitched through and through by the Confucian principles asserting that process and rules are things that define a person and a society. Ancient Taoism (or Philosophical Taoism as most call it) rejects this assertion. For example; some people read Zhuangzi and think the fictional anecdotes wherein Confucius is a character are espousing the wisdom of Confucius - where in actuality the purpose is to make Confucius an absurd caricature of his own school of thought. What you do or don't do is irrelevant - behavior is only an expression, and it can be faked. You can do twenty Hail Marys and not be Catholic. You can taijichuan until you're blue in the face and the cows come home, and still be a murderer. I would never say that Taoist Arts and Practices are not useful, powerful, or appropriate. However, who and what you are at your core is what is relevant. Shave a Turkish Angora cat and it doesn't become a Canadian Hairless. A cat is a cat from the core outward. I know enough Chinese to confidently assert that any translation of anything from Chinese to English will be flavored (and often flawed) by the translator. I've read enough different translations of Laozi and Zhuangzi by people with different axes to grind that I realize you cannot read just one. This has no relevance to the question "Is there such a thing as Philosophical Taoism?" but it's important when you read Laozi or Zhuangzi to read several translations - ignore the abstraction, and look for the substance. In closing on this issue; Philosophical Taoism is not about denomination, belief, magic, levitation, or anything a person expresses. Laozi did not have a denomination. Philosophical Taoism (or Ancient Taoism if you prefer) is about who you are from the core outward, living rightly, in harmony, with integrity, and acceptance - the goal being a frictionless and content way of being. It's cool for folks to put energy into defining the characteristics of their breed. Some folks are all about being a Maine Coon Cat, a Turkish Angora - or perhaps an Ocicat, how cool is that? I accept it and applaud it if it facilitates your growth. Me? I purr - it doesn't matter that you can't name my breed - I am undeniably a cat. Peace,

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!... Correct answer!

Howdy pardner! Welcome!

That's an amusing belief . Taoist Arts and Practices are done by the doer because they have a belief that doing so will achieve a way of being the practitioner believes to be Taoist. A cosmic double belief burrito. Some people require the construct of abstracting the goals of Taoism into a way of doing instead of a way of being. It is very valuable for some to use belief in practice or ritual as a facilitator to achieve a right way of living. That's terrific! Whatever gets the boat down the right tributary is cool as far as I am concerned. Fundamentally Taomeow is correct - the phrase "Philosophical Taoism" is a bit of an oxymoron, and a misleading misnomer. What is usually termed "Philosophical Taoism" should more appropriately be called "受理古老道教" - which loosely translates as "Accepting Ancient Taoism." Whatever name you want to call it, and however much people with different beliefs want to poo-poo it, there IS such a thing as "Philosophical Taoism." Admittedly though, that label is misleading. Philosophical Taoism is grounded in reading, understanding, and actualizing a way of living that Laozi, Zhuangzi, and a few other ancient philosophers from China espouse. For me, the Dao de Jing is a good foundation to understand and live in this world. And Zhuangzi is a treasure - he is the Court Jester who brings clarity to the truths in the Dao de Jing through humor. What is called "Taoist Philosophy" is a way of being - it is not a set of beliefs. It requires no beliefs, it requires no faith, it requires no practice or ritual. It is simply a way of living rightly, in harmony, with integrity, and acceptance - the goal being a frictionless and content way of being. I'll close with a chapter from the Dao de Jing wherein practices and ritual are directly addressed by Laozi: Peace,

Yeah. If you're anywhere else, you're not.

I've not enough ego to be an exhibitionist. I'd decline the invitation if it really was one, and I'd pass the "not an egomaniac" test. I actually think it was casual flirtation - a handy skill for a PUA. Am I being played?

Good response Taomeow. It's, like, 24/7 baby.

Ditto!

Full disclosure: http://www.beancurdturtle.com/ImageGallery/BeancurdTurtle/

On a powerful river, In a tiny boat. It is impossible to go against the river. Choose well who shares the tiny boat. Learn well to listen to the river, instead of peering into the fog. Choose wisely what obstacles to avoid, and which challenges to welcome. Don't fight the river. Sometimes move toward the left bank, sometimes toward the right. Whenever possible let go, and take the middle way. Make right choices. Enjoy the ride, as some day, you will arrive at the eternal.

I need to quit reading this thread. You see this as a happy ending, but I see it as two years of cheap, meaningless sex. This line of thinking is so far away from who I am that I will NEVER get it. Signing off. V. That one final scene - narcissism deeply grounded in a self worth based on "conquest" for the dude, and the attention from others for the chick. Pretty much in line with feeling cool because you have a hot car, lots of money, etc. Even when they eventually "get together" it's all about how wonderful each of them perceives themselves to be based on their conquests or the attention of others. How incredibly twisted. There was meaning to the sex for each of them - though the meaning is all effed up. Then they actually believe it brought meaning to their lives and validation to themselves? Strangely dark and disturbing if you ask me.

Hmmmm.... I think I'll have to try that as a pickup line. Haha!

Freeform, I agree in large part with your words. Your take on gender based integrity is interesting, and worth some thought. Personally though, I would watch out for beliefs like the one quoted. "If the environment presents this, then my reaction is that." It sounds a bit like "the devil made me do it." Yet I do agree with you that we should react "naturally" to things. The trick to me it seems is in tuning our nature rightly - treat the cause, not the symptom - so that natural behavior is less knee-jerk reaction, and more appropriate response. Once again, interesting "middle ground."

I'm looking forward to the day I can contribute knowledge. Until then, I'll enjoy the coolness.

Some things merit respect. Others do not. It wasn't necessary to be respectful when disagreeing with that statement.

I live in Orange County, Southern California. Lower left corner of the US. Haha! Bring it on - I'll lavish it with worship.

I always do my best to act with honesty and sincerity - and *gasp* even respect. That leaves little room for PUA games. Hence my long stretch of no babes. Well, there's that - and the fact that nearly every woman in this "Christian Nation" I've dated recently runs screaming for the hills when she finds I have no faith. Weird freekin' society here in the US. It's not "God Fearing" - it's "Godless Fearing."

Kevin, My thoughts are with you , your father, and family. I understand your place I think as my father passed from complications of liver disease. Be at peace, love each other.

Whereas I did not sign a release form holding you harmless from the results of your parody the American point of view. Resolved therefor that you are not sheltered from harm either direct or of proximate cause. Therefore, as I am of the aforementioned nationalism, you shall soon receive a summons to answer to my lawsuit for having done me irreparable harm and caused me considerable pain and anguish.

Freaky magical weird poo. That, my friend, is profound. Haha!

I know what you mean sister - unfortunately.

Maybe you need to re-think "normal." Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. Haha!