hagar

From my now almost 20 years of practice, I have gotten very little. Maybe nothing. It has shown me that I am a bad student, disgracing my teacher by not applying his teaching, being self-obsessed, vain, stupid, stubborn, gluttenous, boastful, self-decietful, dishonest, a good-for-nothing. It ruined my sense of self, my future, my plans, my self confidence, my ambitions, my hope. In short it has given me a mirror. To which I owe my eternal gratitude. I cannot begin to grasp my profound luck and fortune to stumble on this miraculous practice that has completely destroyed my life. I can never repay my teacher for it. Only bow in tears. h

My brother! My thoughts exactly....

yup

Discussions such as these are not really all that fruitful, and can possibly lead to confusion of someone potentially able to reckognize and start the practice. In my experience, and probably I am not alone in this, reading Nei Dan texts is as informative as reading notes while not being trained jn music. I´ve practiced internal alchemy for a decade, yet haven´t started to grasp the initial subtleties yet. The only thing I have learnt is that fundamentally what you call it, and what text you read is totally irrellevant, as much as having a degree in geology can harness the heat in a volcano. When the Daoist canon states that the subtleties must be intuited, it´s an understatement. If you want to practice, find a teacher. It takes fire to start a fire. Don´t waste your time. h

Well, I am currently working on my right eye. Having issues with a bubble in the sharp vision area (no idea if that is the right translation), in addition to floaters. I know what causes it: 1. lack of sleep, too much looking at smart phones, stress, anger and tobacco. All leads to liver stagnation, and probably some other issues. Anyway; Here is what I did.. 1. Stopped using "snus" which is the same as Skoal or any other chew. 2. Started eating alot more greens, usually via smoothies, and drinking more water. 3. Trying to sleep more and taking rests from screens 4. Doing self-acupressure on the eye points, and liver-qigong 5. Working with a blessing card (talisman) on the eye. 6. Letting go of anger and resentment (moi importante) Result: Within a week I have drastically reduced my long-sightedness on my eye. The "bubble" is also reduced. Yet some vision distortion remains. Conclusion: Yes, lifestyle and stress redux in conjunction with spesific qigong practice will dramatically improve your eye functino and possibly also affect retinal issues... h

I don´t mean to judge anyone here regarding their life circumstances. It may be very different, and possibly extremely challenging. Personally, I have been up shit creek for about a decade. It really hasn´t changed much. But then again, alot has also been profoundly good. It´s really also what you identify with. Its not that mystical. Shitstorms are not statistically and evenly distributed in time and space. By natural variation, they tend to fluctuate, and thus there will be times when shit happen to congregate. It feels personal, but it´s just randomness. Even Wall Street traders know this. Life is suffering. If you look anywhere shit happens all the time. It would be much stranger if everything went just according to our conceptions of good. Personally I find much joy in the old Stoics, like Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, who used adversity as a tool and good fortune; a place to mold their character and create opportunity. The saw the obstacle as the way. Very Zen actually. That said; some energy practices will accellerate the firing of the gunpowder in the barrel, so to speak... When that happens, you know. you just know. h

The issues you present have nothing at all to do with fullness of the essential water. Firstly, it is not the bodily fluids, and secondly it is not conditioned. All the symptomes you describe only points to imbalance of some sort. We all have them, yet speaking of Nei Dan as sublimation of sexual energy is missing the mark. Sublimation of the essential water is not derived from conditioned elements, and the essential light (Shen) is not psychic energy. When a bottle is almost empty, it makes alot of sound while poured. However , fullness of the essential water is still, and is reluctant to leave its container. The signs of the water being full is yin, stillness, quiet. Nowhere do you sense any overpowering energy. The same is true for the true , essential fire. It is calm, steady, dry, light and pure vibration, not anything spectacular. The Shen is only space, light and radiation. Like a filament you cannot see. It has nothing to do with energetic, mental phenomena. Instead, it is just spacious, bright and absolutely sublime. When you experience it, it is an experience so profound that you never want it to leave. Retentin in moderation is sound, but has nothing to do with the presence of absence of the real alchemical process. If we could replenish our Jing with food, then we all would be immortals. h

It´s based on my own experience of my life "unraveling", or deconstructing itself. It may or may not be a direct causal product of my practice, but it panned out into a decade of ordeals, and alot of stuff happening that may be attributed to "fate", but for me, the clearest indication was that they came in such a rapid - fire succesion. One upheaval after the other. Really close together. And seemingly beyond my control. I might be confusing correlation with causation, but that is how it felt. It also felt that way internally, like a clock speeding up. I felt it had to do with my Nei Dan work, and particularly with how certain energies "manifested" faster.

Dark nights come in clusters. I have a different, energetic take on them For me it starts with the speeding up of "karma", and you spend time grappling with it. For me, a sign of the end of the Dark night is the slowing down of time; you seem to have all the time in the world, and end up sensing a feeling of silence and stopping. Things end early, days last longer. Less "content". These two are interdependet; the speeing up and expending karmic energies, and then the slowing down of time. I have no clue how this happens, but it´s an empirical fact for me at least. It comes and goes. Just like a clock winding up and down. They are deeply related to practice. Depression is reactive. Dark nights are a byproduct of real cultivation. h

Know exactly what your are talking about. Skiing was (and is my life), but it´s growing ordinariness astounds me. However, powder days... different story

What does returning to the root, or origin mean for you guys? h

Really liked your metaphor of the rolled up paper Steve. Compelling description and great post. Again, you seem to be moving into what to me is non-dual language, but the essence of what you are saying is the same in all contemplative traditions, What I am curious about is what your experience of what the alchemical process, which is basically a process of refinement, says about "returning"? h

Although much more eloquently put by some luminescent being , =) , this rings true for me at least. In "return" the text points beyond the dual, the contigent. So in a sense, it also points beyond what we can be "aware". That´s also approaching the boundary of language. Yet, here in glimpses, there has been a perception of the "original energy", unconditioned and pure. This pure energy is, from an alchemical path, something to attain, yet not through trying, but through falling through, like a drop falling into the ocean. If you have felt this pure energy, even once, it changes everything. So in a sense, I feel that what we are talking about is not a transcendence, but letting something catch you, find you again. Something else is looking for itself in you, not the other way around. This is return. (possibly) This kind of terrain is really tricky yet fascin

And what did it turn into years later? h

That was probably my not-so-well-articulated intention of the original post: That eventhough the Daoist (and other) classics articulate the blueprint by way of allegory and metaphor, yet in reality it´s both subtle, scary, boring, confusing and even downright impossible from the point of the "me". In real life we stand in this muddling through without ever being in the ideal circumstances of the so-called sages of old. They were regular dudes with plagued with the urge. The texts are idealized, and also in how they describe the alchemical or meditative process. We all know it´s way more murky, fuzzy, winding and usually not-so-profound. h

From the tone of your question you seem to still have a flicker of hope that "you" can do something about this. "you" cannot do it. The part that gives up is not the part that is real. However, to really give up you need to grieve.

This is approaching what I am talking about. In a sense, I am hinting to the Daoist alchemical metaphors of the natal and prenatal energy. It feels like a metaphor, because it is both an existential and an energetic issue. An energy must die. But by dissolving the false yang and purging yin, you are supposedly on your way to "immorality". By return, the body also is discarded, but voluntarily. The difference is beyond this, I think. h

=) Again, reason being? h

Why is it easy?

Origin bump: First, I have been too busy to read up on this surprisingly long thread. (probably a record for me). Have to read up soon... Second; I recallibrated my objective with my initial question. I´m curious what you guys relate to the question of returning to the source as in what must be left behind? If Neidan´s primary objective is return, what separates the body/energy path from others? Immortality is a metaphor, but not only that. Inducing the alchemical process is also taking something with you while also transcending. In my experience; the "return" is also about something dying. Not necessarily the body, but what is this "something"?

If you get sore, that´s true practice

For me the sense of an origin and source also has some degree of grief or loss related to it, like needing to adress some deep existential wound or pain before really opening to it in practice. This part is highly overlooked, and also fascinating, because it makes me forced to face my contidioned self, my past, my deep personal identity, where the few innocent first misconceptions emerged in the middle of paradise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIjobdArtiA

So destiny is not interfering, but does that inform the way we relate to practice, or how we form ideas about outcomes? h

indeed: sounds almost non-dual in your later years Steve =) On the same note, I´ve been watching how my senses point beyond identity. The notion of "springtime with everything", or seeing where senseimpressions emerge from, like an endless freshness. Pointing to no past, only coming into being constantly. Contemplating the return?

Great post. Timeconstraints, but reading your thoughts about how the senses are limited, I recall Chuang Tzu´s notion of listening to the tuneless tune, and this is seen as the way "home". However, beyond the senses, what is really "there"? My girlfriend lost her vision on one eye, and that made her aware that losing the sense of sight is also losing a part of the world. h