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Thank you Harry, we'll get to the bottom of this eventually, it got me curious! Waiting for that PM smiles back ^_^ L1

Anyone has the original official statements? Usually the situation is not that bad, just agravated by rumours

Hardyg, think what you want of it, ok? This one is for the girls, with a lady instructor UHT, same Congress... it was filmed at Tao Garden, i think. She is fabulous, her husband, Juan Li, is even better. This is Shashi Soluna, another instructor and practitioner, she has an interesting experience with it also...

You are confused. He is an UHT instructor, and what you've seen is his testimonial as a practicioner and instructor, at a UHT Congress. Yes, he started with Tai Chi. That's about all that he's saying regarding that (And if you are interested about it, in order to practice Tai Chi correctly, in the UHT, you need to pass through the specific formulas of Qigong and Neigong, as they relate to each other.)

Harry, thank you really for sharing, i'd agree with the ideas, if you know more details about the cases that the TCM-ists have to 'fix', please share. you know that from ancient times the practices have been evolving thru trial/error, by error i mean many of the practicioners were severely damaged and there were scores of fatalities amoungst them also, at some point. I wonder if a simmilar process isn't happening today with this 'transplant' of Eastern methodology to the Western body-mind frame, at least it seems so, in some cases. @Hardyg, he is reffering to the system that he practiced, and i was amazed to see that he insisted that Healing Love practice are working, and are working good. Obviously he must have knowledge of the controversy around HL Coming back to that, maybe Harry is right, there maybe a flaw in the transmission. I had and continue to have many benefits from this practice. And i started the worst, alone, practicing from books... just followed what my body 'told' me.

If it would have been backed up by some facts, yes, it would be enough of an issue. Be that as it may, as Craig said,it's still not enough to throw it out the window as you seem more prone to. However all i see you doing is repeating hearsay, and much of it from dubious sources. If you are an honest investigator of the matter, i suggest you get to really know the community that is UHT, and meet the people that you are blaming. Anybody would need A CRITICAL MIND LIKE YOURS! I'm not saying you should stop doing it,quite the contrary, my interest is to get the best out of it, and there are people like yourself that are more prepared than myself to ask inconvenient questions... I'm interested in the following: - how did those guys hurt themselves (how did they apply what they have learned) - what did they overdo - what should they have done (countermeasures of various excessess) - were there any preexisting symptoms that later one become stronger ... If possible, backed up by some testimonials and statistics, would be alot more credible and if your intent is to make them correct their mistakes, i'm sure that sent to the right people, would determine an 'official' reaction. But drawing conclusions from hearsay and gossip it's another can of worms. Don't you feel that 'the people have the right to know' that there are alot more people that had extraordinary health benefits (let's not take into account just now the emotional and the spiritual benefits that are a constant companion to all the courses that i have attended to). I know those people that had those INCREDIBLY positive testimonials, met them and discussed with them. ...I had the main instructors and master 'seen' by people that have 'second sight', and the practice examined practically by people that can see deep into the energy structure of the body - it's really interesting, you should go into that with your investigation! I base my 'bias' on personal experiences. I hope this too doesn't come across as a crafty excuse or deflection PS: There were alot of filmed testimonials, i remember many of them, i hope they will end up on youtube, they are pretty informative and also inspiring, regardless of what you practice. My opinion is more in line with this guy's:

+ 1 @Trunk, we had our differences, regardless of that, i honestly want to ask you, were there any personal experiences that led you to your strong opinions about this system? I feel that your bias is a bit too strong to be considered only a product of the compassion that you have for the 'many that were hurt'. The medicine has the power to heal, and also the power to poison, the matter is decisevly one of timing and planning your practices, knowing yourself, listening to the body, taking things one at a time. My 2 (biased) cents

You're welcome... I was about to conclude that nobody noticed it I didn't have access to this kind of information before, and to see it on youtube!! wow.

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Of course there is measurement. Thing is, it's not done by you, you can't measure from within a system. It is done from outside. Usually, the ones that measure you are your closest friends and family Kidding aside, if there were no measurement involved, why the heck would a practice have different levels?

Here, M Chia says that retention happens naturally to a man, IF AND ONLY IF he has opened his heart. You should add this to your general knowledge on M Chia and his system... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwLlzf6LOW4

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Seth Ananda. Taking into account all that has been discussed here, i believe that - there are stages in the meditation practice where the cultivator needs to be celibate. - there should exist dual cultivation methods that are able to increase rather than decrease vitality. - managing your sexual urges and desires should be as natural as managing your emotional expression and your mental faculties - the same should apply to sexual energy.. - i believe in being able to be open or close, in conformity to your will -i believe that some degree of tension is still needed, just the way we need polarity for the exchange to occur.

Hello Aaron, it's nice of you to join the topic, and complete your description about the phenomenon. i for one think psychology has quite alot to teach us and can prove an invaluable means to ADAPT the Eastern practices, which in my view adress a different type of psychic structure. just want to say i read you! PS: don't mind bodyoflight, i think the best policy is what he suggested to me, let him be our egos are to fragile for a direct confrontation with his well fed..

I've been on this board for quite some time, and i didn't 'meet' anyone that can do what you are trying to accomplish. Here's my 2 cents: take into consideration only those that succeeded, period. They will teach you how they succeeded. The ones that failed, will teach you how they failed - interesting nonetheless, but less practical.

i don't remember who the original poster was, i saved it into my computer for later. i think it sums up my beliefs too... Qi is sexual. If it doesn't flow into it's natural channels, it will create floods and disasters, much like a river that has that potential. So, there we have it: 1. The way of the humans (procreation and pleasure) 2. The way of the sages (nuturing wisdom and higher consciousness) 3. The way of the pervert (nutruring sexual desire that is unnatural and unsafe) 4. The way of the wacko (sexual energy destabilizing the nervous system) Mm?

i forgive you for that too, my son edit: and please, don't try to look more mature than you are, by rhetorical means. i'm not fond of using forum discussion rhetorics to proove points to anyone, not anymore at least. i said what i had to say, the way i thought you best deserve it...believe it or not, the intent is good.

Bodyoflight, is that a bizkit in your avatar? I wouldn't worry about your egomania that much, each of us had it, like the measels in childhood,you'll get over it. Maybe even get to feel embarassed about the stuff you wrote. Hang in there, dude, it will pass...

i had an old friend on this forum, by the name of procurator, all of these remind me of him. he talked abit about the wu-liu pai. unless i'm mistaken, the probation period for the indoor student included that the he'd study and translate chinese texts related to alchemy. thanks for the link!

Thanks! I think you guys could start an entire discussion on that aspect too (which you seem to have already done), my background (allows me to comprehend some of your ideas, however i'm not qualified to make educated interventions. @tccii, as you said, the Foundation practice would be the most approach-able subject for a beginner (please bare in mind that there are here many that have a +10 years of practical experience with the daoist, or better said, Chinese health and meditation arts, and still consider themselves, based on their experience and modest achievemets, as being mere beginners, such is my case also). as @Daode sharply pointed out, there is a major difference between 愚 'foolishness' vs 证 'proof', and some of us feel they still are at the 愚 stage of their development. as such, if any of you would consider discussing in more detail (not necessarely technical), about the theory/reasoning of the Foundation practices, and their mechanism, i suppose it would really be helpful for us taobums Thanks! L1

I followed through your guys' discussion which was very informative on a theoretical level, and waited to see if it would ever dare venture into the practical aspect of the teaching. I suppose this is a good time to ask, what is generally understood by Building the foundation. It's an open question to all, thanks L1

This is precisely why in daoism you worship your INNER gods, the inner spirits.

I think that was (a sabotage from) the your buddhist inside, telling us the two of them are the same anyway...

Stig, seems you mixed-up the two Chinese characters, 'you' and 'wu' repeatedly.

there must be something that can be divulged, such as there is so and so theory, and it's not only theory, i and my fellow students have experienced it - just a crude example usually 'something' transpires thru the message, it's 'shadow' or 'energy imprint' can actually tell more about the information itself. with my limited means i tracked one of our ttb's posts, to clear out the inconsistencies between what i read and what i sensed, and it seems to work this way. for example, you yourself (no disrespect intended, you may even take it as a joke if you can) talk like a knower, which to my (subjective) senses is inconsistent with the 'shadow' of your post. however the ideas are familiar, and i think you do a gread job sharing them. this is not taunting or trying to demonstrate anything, it's just a poor example of how some of us 'read' the information they receive, via taoist forums for example. if i was too straightforward i apologize.

To me, it would. Also it would be nice if people would write the Chinese name in characters, pinyin transliteration, and Western counterpart concept together, when discussing the terminology. Otherwise the discussion is more confusing than enlightening. It's too bad that no one can really share anything valuable about the practical aspect of things, however i guess less is better than nothing.