宁

First I have to say that this is only my opinion based on my research. I would advice you not to rush ahead and draw conclusions about western and hebrew mysticism, as there are indeed some Very good practitioners of these arts that i know of, and they wouldn't agree with your statements. The situation of the truely sacred arts is simmilar here, as it is there, most Chinese don't have a clue about the real cultivation, and don't care about it, the same applies with the Westerners. As many as you can see on TTB, we are in fact just a handful of dedicated practitioners (there are quite a few who come here, sadly, just to waste their time and others'). Here in the west, as in China, we generally have some clue about the basic principles, and know next to nothing about the exact steps of gathering the ingredients and completing the basic theory of the alchemical work. What has been salvaged from the olden knowledge now lies behind the closed door of a few mystic and secret schools, that don't easily accept students. Except for that, all that we have access now is basic fundamental truths, just like the ones you repeatedly share with us about Daoism. They are valuable of course, yet the intricacies on how they work on a personal level still evade many of us. In other words, as basic as they are, we still don't know how to use them. What good is an information about Practice, if you can't make good Use of it?

You may find it hard to believe, but I have great respect for you, no matter how our discussion will end - the purpose of which is me trying to make you aware of a few things. I agree with all that you wrote above, however I fail to see it's relevance as an answer to the original question. You also know that any and all Daoist teachings and information that are passed on from the olden days to us via different lineages are highly contextual, there are no general rules that apply for everyone. Me asking you about your witnessing and experimentation is my trying to put your ideas in some valid context. That's all for now, I hope you will join in and play.

I know, and I think all of us know, that is the theory, and in the West, we did came to know about this theory from various writings that have been passed down to us form Chinese, in this information age this is very common, you know. You see, our problem isn't information, is direct experience. If you want to know why I insist, is because oftentimes I get the feeling that the Chinese don't easily approve that these teachings should go into the hands of the Westerners. As such, your enterprise is very interesting to me, at least, and I want to know more about where you want to go with it, to what extent you see the information that you provide to be useful to us, as laowai taobums. So, What about experiencing? Witnessing?

Respectfully, have you yourself witnessed these effects, or is this just theory?

I know about someone who waited 3 years because of his belief in naturist medicine, and what started as a small infection became a cyst that needed serious surgery. And he still needed to take the darn pills, and alot of other stuff too, later. If he took his antibiotics on time, this wouldn't've happen. If i were you, i'd take it. After all, you believe in science!

Craig, guys, Blasto, thanks for the responses. However i feel that the question can't be answered if the proof is only in the pudding. Ain't it? We must also realize that the systems that we practice and study didn't have much in common with CT as it is understood in the West, because Chinese as a people seem to be using Analogic rather than Logic thinking - and this applies more to mysticism than anything else. So i'm still wonderning about this one. However can we dismiss creationism as non-scientific, and embrace the possibilities opened up by spiritual practice? Many of the effects can be very well Placebos. And i don't intend to use the Placebo word as a critic, au contraire, it's recognizing the great power of the human mind, that can do for oneself's body-mind the same great things that it can achieve outside of it (complex constructions and technology etc). Should we dismiss that power as illusion? Could it be more to it than that? Tonight I had a dream in which i died as a result of an enormous catastrophic explosion, and in the dream, expected to dissolve into nothing. I felt my body die and turn to ashes. It was extremely vivid, vision-like. In my dream i woke up later, i felt i had a body again, and someone was looking at me, some familiar figure. If the proof is in the pudding, would this be a valid experience of afterlife? edit darn 'spells' (not a Native speaker)

Hi Blasto, I have a question, I have a simmilar mindset like yours (critical thinking and all that jazz), yet I don't know what to answer to those that question me regarding my beliefs in Qi, Shen and unseen 'realities' in general. I mean how can we find a reasonable / rational ballance between the two? Maybe you've explained it in other threads, if you did, please point me at them Regards L1

Medhavi said: Stop simply aping ideas of other men. Read less, observe more. + 1000 bodyoflight, all these people Were trying to help you one day, you will understand. we did, everyone gets his chanse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk2w2xCgulc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEqu_ioRlEk&feature=related And, generally, all Jean Reno movies...

那我觉得, 您就是咱们的神助

Where could one begin?

...why the taboos existed in the first place, and what writings are you reffering to?

I'm happy you took it that way, as it was meant that way... I can see the way time itself has affected my own consciousness, and looking from that perspective i think i begin to understand why would the daoist find it appealing to strife for longevity. I can barely imagine what changes will the years to come mold on my own consciousness. So, that settles it, we indeed have a 'daoist' sollution to it eh? Time, potion of wisdom, whether you exist or not, we owe yee so much!

Thanks, don't mind if i do! See, you are a person that talks from a perspective which most if not all of us don't undertand: the perspective of a man in his 70's. In daoist understanding, a man that has reached that age is close to the first level of immortality. You consciousness is different, and therefore you can state and stand by what you have stated regarding daoism, and no Chinese in his right mind (at least none from the past) would tell you that you haven't got it. Esoterically speaking, your five shen have been living for so long together, that is most likely they have achieved a state of harmony, that usually would pertain to a practicioner. In China it seems that, at least from the p.o.v of popular belief, old age doesn't come on it's own, you need to keep the Way if you want to ever reach longevity. I'm not sure you see my point, you would need a more thorough introduction in Chinese mystical thought for it all to make sense. Am not sure you'll even agree with it, however this is the only stance by which i can grant you the truth of your vision and statements. Be it by mystical reasons, friendship reasons, scientific/objective reasons, i think in the end it doesn't really matter...

Sean?.. Please?...

I passed them on to other people that went there, and they LMFAO-ed and OMFG-ed! I don't remember what exactly was I looking for yesterday, just came across this, and couldn't help myself letting others enjoy it. It seems to have been written by someone who was there, and had posted it on his blog! My favs are nr 15, 27, 204, 205...

Alot of info, no structure. Messy way of sharing, but sharing nonetheless

manitou, thanks for sharing!

If the afterlife would really have a will of its own, AND a sense of humour, it would: - grant rebirth to those who don't believe in it, - welcome buddhists in the Christian heavens - daoists in the Muslim heavens - would annihilate Christians in the Buddhist nirvana ... ah such lack of inspiration today!! Feel free to add your own options!!

You're all such a bunch of fools I know of a grandmaster, he said he believes in Jesus, the reason he practices is lest Jesus would forget to save him too!!! He said, when Jesus left, there were only a handful of disciples, when He will return, there will be billions!! Who knows if Jesus has room for that many...!

Darn, missed by 40 years! I wish you many more with health and wisdom. Cheers!

Marbles, i always thought you are 30, maybe 30 something If you knew EVERYTHING, and said it was a possibility, KNOWING firsthand it isn't, that, my friend, would be lying, wouldn't it?

Marbles, your reasoning is flawed: you can't say that rebirth doesn't exist based on science. You can say however that there is still no scientifical evidence to support this idea. Science is itself evolving, who knows what tomorrow's science will look like. Be a little more flexible, for Laozi's sake (i'm sure he'll appreciate, hehe)

If the Self is an illusion, then it's a darn good one! Personally i have nothing on it!