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Of course they exist, not with that particular name though - which sounds a bit silly imo. It's the sense that dominates our individual perception. It's alot closer to us as individuals, and more natural than any other theoretic classification, albeit daoist or not. Kinestethic sense cannot rule out any other sense, be it in Qigong or wherever. This is common sense.

About Water and Fire Path... Water is connected to Kidney&Jing, the kinestetic Fire is connected to Heart&Mental, the visual There are three other options left: Metal, Wood and Earth. Don't rule any of them out just because you don't fit into them. Each of us is different, and has a personal pathway to get in touch with the Qi Field. L1

That's odd. For a moment you sounded as if he's the only one doing it. It's common qigong knowledge... in spite of... what people may believe others do. All of the good teachers know this, and teach this. Whether or not the practitioner actually understands and does it properly, it's entirely a different matter. As with everything else, depends on how much you put in it. Cheers

Sounds interesting, there's alot more to dig!

Testicle Breathing is to me a very direct method to tap into the cold sexual energy. Once you study more about it... there, the door of wonders!

Every practice is forced. We weren't supposed to practice. Practice is a cure to an illness..

Usually folks limit breathing to nose and mouth alone. Why don't they have issues. Why would someone who extends his breathing to other parts of the body encounter any problems.

Actually no, although I tried some methods before, with little effect. So nothing worth noticing. Nothing compared to what I learned next. The Healing Tao methods were extremely beneficial to me, healing is the proper word. After I recovered to a 'normal' state, I only maintained a casual practice, mostly for keeping the level up. I still can't figure my way up to the upper formulas, but I am aquainted to people that do, and have great results. My conclusion is, even though the system is available to all, the path is extremely personal. When we say that some practices aren't ment for everybody, I think this situation reffers to every practice known. Some just won't/can't budge out of this perception prison that we know as reality, even if they sincerely try - not their fault, the force of conditioning is just amazing.

Emphasis mine. To me, what you call 'forced methods' were the only ones available. The fact that I learned them first, to me, it makes them 'natural and unforced'. I can think of anything else BUT 'forced' when reffering to MCO as I know it. So there, just different experience, different ways to apply simmilar tools. I still say, tools are just tools. The 'hand' that uses them makes the difference. When I was little and my father taught me carpentry, I was often inclined to think that hammers have something against me

I got you the first time, and appreciate your advice. I'm still looking for the big picture, it's almost too hard to be dragged into exploring detail at this moment. The detail is easy to explain once you see the bigger picture. For the moment, I'm still hunting.

That's a nice thing to say. I do think about it. At this moment, I need little to no validation. Helping others... takes more than my own will, I'm sure you know that.

@YaMu Only the context made it look like a jab. I was aware of that, but I still had to ask. I expected that someone who works alot with movement practice to look alot limber. It was just a thought, this time you mis-interpreted it. Besides, if I wanted to jab at someone, I wouldn't mind calling it what it is myself. Being practically a nobody here, I don't have an image to defend I'm not used to the thought of good teachers aging normally. It's against my experience. @Pietro Thanks for the clarification, I'm still chewing on what your teacher said. It still doesn't make sense. I'll think about it.

Yes, I guess you are right about MC. Buy,sorry, Pietro, honestly, what Frantzis said doesn't make sense. What does one thing has to do with another? If the process isn't explained, i can doubt the honesty of the teacher. Because many teachers use this method: bad mouth a method and bragg about yours... I don't want to say this is the case. But aditional explanation is vital. I'm not into sharing information via www, because i'm no teacher. But there's alot of benefits of breathing, with either side of the body! The more sides you involve, the better! And, regarding 'manipulation of energy', I saw this phobia on other threads: the 'history of qigong' proved that it's dangerous only to those that are mentally and psychologically unstable... Pietro, there's one thing I wanted to ask you since a long time ago: what happens to your teacher? He seems to age too much, too fast. I don't know him in person, but as I saw his latest photos on the webside, I had a yikes! up my throat. I like the man, read his articles many years ago, imho I consider the path good and worth following. But what happens to this man? yours L1

Master Chia is 63. He's still touring the world twice a year - it's a record that no master that I heard of can do. Yang Jwing-ming said he stopped touring to Europe (just Europe) at around 60, because it was way too tiring for him. What of wheel chairs? Just sharing..

Nice one.

Interesting... I'm not a happy debunker either. I'm interested to know how it was done, and accept only if it can be repeated by other people. That are other demo's that can't even roughly be explained. My temporary conclusion is that maybe these people can mix BS with the real thing, just to create confusion.

You are (way) too kind I agree with the last part: less burden. The more you don't know, the easiest to receive the novelty. And in our field of research, it may be a much needed 'ability'. It also has the downside: being too naive. To make a small contribution to the thread though: my impression is that although the goals may sound more or less simmilar, they may be in fact different. Think of it this way: imagine the planet, with all it's inhabitants shooting their awareness upward, from each point of the globe out into infinity. Like rays of awareness shooting into different directions... Based on that image, you'd expect that humanity can only converge one way: projecting their awareness deep into the Earth itself, there all the threads of awareness can naturally join... Edit: Regarding this, Mantak Chia told us at a seminar, that it's very strange that all people aim for the Sky, wanting to get off the planet. Too little apreciation for our Mother Earth, that feeds us and keeps us sheltered, it enchants us with the beauties of nature and keeps us tuned to the universe. Can't help thinking: how would a path that is involved with exploring the Inner and the Outer Earth look like?

We can speculate on that, of course. But it's obvious that nowaday's problem is too little of a 'charge' in the organs. Many degenerating diseases.

Soo... not one "I don't know" yet. Let me start that line of thought for you: haven't tried them all to a proficient level, so how should I know?

I'll take you on your word, won't I. Many ID's are only active on Verdesi threads. Enough to make me raise an eyebrow. What you said is correct of course, eels also produce electricity. Regarding what you asked, I have no idea. All I know is that's within our range of posibilities as human beings. Happy trails. Edit: We also have specialized organs that produce electricity. In fact, we need biologic electricity to live, and quite enough of it, to be healthy and happy.

I'll answer that, if you tell me who's clone are you.

You can learn to store electricity in the body, like an eel. This is part of the training of Jiang Feng. Issuing out electric qi is a sign of accomplishment in Mopai. This is where the confusion arose. He made sure to make this confusion fact when he stated that he attained a level "simmilar to Mopai level 4". So, long story short, people began telling that he attained 'level 4'. It's a big market, spirituality. There are many tastes out there. I'm sure will be hearing more from this guy in the future.

Only in our mind. But what do we really know?

We're Taoists and Buddhists only in our minds, just because our monkey clings to something just to make us look important. We're beings of flesh blood and breath... And we're all going to die. Starting from that only certain fact in life, can you start building on truth?

I thought that the 'my method is better than your method' and 'my master is better than your master' view is something we left far behind, in the teen years... Apparently not. MCO is a good method. A tool is only a tool.