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Stig, It's not my translation, it's Stephen T. Chang's. And to me it's a breath of fresh air... I like ineffable NOT. I agree there are things that cannot be spoken about, but if we give up too soon... L1

Every high alchemy master that i heard of was a scholar. There were cases in which they were illiterate, yet they could reproduce hundreds of scrolls of taoist philosophy by heart. The daoist adept is said to join three aspects: the monk, the sage and the martial artist. Each reffers to a type of training related to one of the three treasures. You don't need to make war with your mind. Nor with your curiosity. Just use them to fuel your practice. It's the same as with sex: there are people that say sex is forbidden, and people that use it to get stronger and healthier... Heads in the sand anyone? Dao can be spoken - Because after that sentence, a whole book has been writen... Not to mention thousands and thousands of skrolls... and the Daozang Dao is not eternal - Everything changes, on Earth, in the Heavens, Everywhere... Nothing stays the same, nothing is eternal... If Dao was unspeakable, no one could learn about it... If you say Dao cannot be spoken about, you deny your acces to it, it's that simple. Nice programming eh?

Of course. Only a person without a job and everyday responsabilities would think otherwise.

Exorcist, can you please define the general characteristic of the North, West, South and East Schools? Thank you very much, brother!

Yes, because after the student pays, he can return home and just fuck it... back to the old habits. But taking responsability for a student means karmic consequences, just like parenting. That's why only strong masters have more than a couple of REAL students. Jesus had only twelve...

Here's something I think you overlooked: - not paying means no implication - no implication means no responsability - no responsability = everyone can do whatever the heck they want, however the heck they want - that is not learning, therefore, of course no one needs to pay for that Not paying = No responsability It seems to fit your patter on thinking like a suit: promoting iresponsability and imaturity... You look like a teenager that has his first fight with his parents: Everything you know, everything that formed your paradigm was once taught by teachers... You don't have to promote iresponsability, they are already promoted by everyone else... PS: For the record, if I will ever get to the level of having something worth teaching, I would not charge a dime... Why? Because paying is getting away easy... ... for the student!

...as well as physics, chemistry, psychology. Here's why I think so: - moving Qigong/Taiji involves practices that have to do with muscles, bones, joints and tendons. If you know your body better, you'll know which practices are good for you, and for what reason. - neigong practices that involve working with inner organ breathing and fascia compression can benefit greatly if one knows (and eventually gets to FEEL) how his insides are connected - meditation practice involves neurotransmitters, hormones, the lymphatic system, heart and blood vessels, so it's only fair to acknowledge that a proper education in biology and anatomy could only greatly benefit and enhance one's practice. Also there is a tendency to sustain different practices and outcomes of practices with terms related to modern science. While for traditional taoists this doesn't make too much sense, to us it surely does, because this is our background, it's the basic interpretation mode, that we have been educated with. So having this mind-tools at hand, we can very easily navigate thru the various theories that are presented to us. I added a poll, just to get some feedback... Feel free to vote and if you want, give a short comment on your vote. L1

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You are very needed here. A true specialist. Bravo.

I think your description is closest to what I am looking for. I forgot to mention that the question what is Qi comes in pair with another question that I kept to myself only. Maybe it's the right time to voice it out: what are the real characteristics that make Nei Qi and Wai Qi be different. I'll try my luck with the last question that you put out, Stig. If you look at the Hindu system, the overall energy is comprised of a number of energies: prana, apana, upana, etc. They sum up to the concept of overall energy. In this context, breath is only a part of Qi, more likely, a manifestation. These questions, plus the initial one, are not to be treated too simplistic, imho. It's silly to practice and have no idea what you practice with... I hope others can share their views:)

SB, i'm happy to see you found something you like... hold on to it and don't turn back... Good luck!

Thanks! I'm actually looking for the Huainanzi, from what you know, is it available anywhere in English? (Free e-book is the best format eheh) L1 PS: 'The force that generated the universe' = actually is not a definition, is it? it's what it does, not what it is...

Im not a philosopher, don't worry... I have my long steady practice since a long time now. But there is a saying in Qigong that goes like this: "Understanding is 95% of the practice." The wisdom mind needs to grow. It needs nourishment.

Lin Aiwei told me Qi is Mind. There is another Chinese Qigong teacher that said 'Qi is a phenomenon that arises where Mind and Matter touch' or 'at the frontier between Body and Mind' Winn also says Qi is Mind... It's silly, see... were practicing Qigong, and we don't know what Qi is. It has been Very Loosely translated as 'Energy'. But Energy is only a manifestation of Qi, so is 'the sensation of Qi'. And, what about Zhuang Zi, when he says 'When the shoe fits, you no longer feel it, forget about it' What about very ancient traditions that say: Our Qi is encapsulated in definite boundaries. We cannot add or draw out Qi from a person. It can scatter, inside it's definite boundaries, no matter where these boundaries are... And what about people that say Qi has a different deffinition at different levels of practice, and it's an oral transmission, something you have to experience First, and Then explain... Definition is diffent every time you practice makes a leap forward... Seriously... i think we settled with the equation Qi = Energy without much fight. Is it really Energy? Thanx S.Y.D. !

There can't be just eight... they have to be nine, if we are talking FS The Magical Square has eight stars, and one in the centre I still don't get your description of the sixth, it seems incomplete at some point... Cool thread!

remember Pocahontas? the same theme...

I very much agree with your view!

tell david i said hi

I very much agree!

@atena: if the senses were pure and natural, i would agree with you @stevef: i'm not thinking paradigms here, but tools. why throw away something that's familliar to us, and help us in our search, for something that we are not familliar with, exotic and we lack the means to check if it really works or not... - and that is the major part. we need pragmatism... Confucius said, how can you be proficient in the things that are not physical, if you can't even be proficient in things that are visible... How can we be proficient at exotic complex meditations deviced thru millenia, when we are not able to navigate within our own scientific western culture? One more thing: the oriental practicioners actually intensely use scientific discoveries to boost up their practice... to levels incomprehensible to us... Meanwhile we cherish illiteracy and idolize an eastern science that they are not ready nor willing to share openly with us. We know next to nothing, we will soon have a proof of that, if i'm guessing right...

@TheDragon20 The ancients say taoism is about the laws of the universe You already know about: 1. social laws - they change frequently 2. political laws - the same 3. religios laws - the same 4. scientific laws - the same But the universal laws were, are and will be the same. The oldest that we know of are 5- 10 000 years old, and work today as good as they worked back then... the same principles. Knowing and following these laws can increase your: - strenght - perception - wisdom - soul and emotions - mind and spirit - make you a respectable person in your family and comunity - grant you success in whatever you want to achieve in life, either with material purposes, or with spiritual goals. These laws are learned from a teacher, and the learning process implies: - discussions - practice - meditation - experimentation Finding a teacher you need: - clear purpose - a good heart: if the heart is too closed, your teacher may be close to you, and you can't 'see' that - a good mind: if your mind is too confused, you won't catch the subtleties of the taoism - a close connection with the Heavens: you need to abandon too much focus on your needs, and start helping others too. - a strong motivation: usually the best motivation is a serious problem you need to solve... Let me know if these above helped, if something wasn't that clear, we can discuss it further L1

Bad news: meditation ain't for wussies... Good news: you can easily fake it, thou..