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i dunno what it is, i strive to discover what it could be, everyday something fresh comes up "a romance with knowledge" CC

wasn't this the mantak chia thread?

"nothing happening" is how taoist get to live in a can, canned taoists, who's life is centered only on their own person. if you un-can them, after 100 years, their are the same, nothing happened to them. nothing... if that is what you are after, dont let me stop you family life can be a cure for a canned taoist, but not universal panacea... dont get me wrong. nice post ya'all good luck L1

mjjbecker is right! dont! (you didnt expect me to say that did you) the important thing is how to change your mind, the way your mind works. only then the practices would mean something to you. if approached with the "everyday brain" the result is a fallacy. and you cannot learn that from dvd's or books. remember this, he holds a very important key, and even the smartest failed to see that. the first thing you should look for is a teacher. and that is up to the heavens to decide, and for you to have the ability to see. all the rest is just paper flowers... in the meantime, read this when you have time: http://www.thetaobums.com/Things-We-Dont-K...stem-t5664.html good luck L1

that was so rude The "Get a job, have a wife, make a child, get a life" - is the Confucian part of the training, it gives the practice a grounding effect that can hardly be replaced with something else. We are not really the ones that run our own life. I know the American sense of private property can see the last sentence at least a bit foggy, but... it's how it is, no exceptions. Peace = nothing happening. L1

for many of the readers it was plain and clear. im not so sure, maybe your mind tends to complicate things. plain and simple: 1. you cannot begin any journey, especially on practice, based on a book... that's a no-no 2. you cannot hope for any good results if you dont have a teacher or instructor 3. if you dont master the basic steps of the system (inner smile, six healing sounds, opening the microcosmic routes) then you'd better pick up taiji or jogging, and forget about multi-orgasmics 4. practice means knowing yourself better, not forcing the body to change habits, be it food or sexuality forgive me if i cannot make it any simpler than that. what you are trying to learn is only one little piece of a big system. if you wont know the entire system, it wont make sense to you... you wont understand it, and the results can be really bad. you can add to that, the system has a part that is unseen, the research part, which is quite difficult to get to, but it's essential. otherwise... that's what happened to most of the guys that curse and swear at retention practices: they oversimplified it, and got trouble. if you want to thicken their pack, by all means, go ahead and forget what i said here. good luck

you may want to read this http://www.thetaobums.com/Things-We-Dont-K...stem-t5664.html especially the last post on it good luck L1 PS: sex is just a part of you, if you want to master it, you should consider an overall education of you, on you in entirety, not just your sexual organs. you need to know more about everything it's in you, otherwise... i'm not sure you will be safe.

Great posts everyone I'm so glad that this one thread has so much enthusiastic posts, they are greatly needed on the Taobums. Many of you have observed that need and posted very nice advices on other threads. There's one question: How can we make this sane and common-sensical ideas, sensible, or palatable to the ones that need to receive them? It's a bitter pill to swallow for most of them, so what can we do, when in response to these pills, they start gargling up fantasy theories? This pill, this elixir, ingredient, that most of us family folks have developed, can it cure others too? Should it? Thanks Little

it is said... the functioning of the Tian Mu requires great resources, which are currently unavailable to most people. most of our resources are engaged in daily interactions. that's why Tian Mu is regarded as a practice more suitable for retreat-like trainings, some of them involving even deeper dis-engagements from the mundane. someone that is able to have a functional Tian Mu and sustain daily interactions would be quite an acheivement in my book. there is an easy way, and a right way. the right way takes time and painstaking effort. the easy way can quickly burn your resources. it's the psychic version of ayahuasca or LSD or coke or whatnot... bottom line: it's an acheivement which is part of a system of training, mostly... and, as everything that includes energy training, it reffers to all of our energy, which is developed in real life events, like THESE

Not really related to this thread but here's someone selling his life on the internet: here and here. 90% of the people i know would do the same, so the guy is the bravest, because he did it, not just spoke of it ...which makes us ponder, doesnt it... if this is the really tough part, really hard to master, then why are we all chasing for spirits up in the air i think it's exactly because of that: spiritual adventures that help you run away from the real world, searching for a Reality that no one knows for real how it looks like by all means, go ahead, and count me out

yes!

well do hold yourself back for a while, give me time to get to K&L, maybe a couple of years... also, you need to get to szg, and maybe even "get" the gong going, before we talk the talk. although the formulas dont matter much, if you dont have someone to help you figure out what is BEHIND them. so, therefore, i lost my appetite for hunting down techniques. i have a friend who introduced me to szg, but due to the type of training my teachers is into, im not sure what to think about K&L, yet. it's a feeling, Harry, when you have it, you know. it's an easy pie for some fellows, but for us who doubt even the air we breathe, is not that easy, no? i know i dont have it, but i feel it must be something really simple, yet it evades me. im not in a hurry anyway.

what great meaning can it have, when you are not drawn to it? maybe it's the greatest state of awareness one can ever experience.... so what, if all that you need is coffee and biskits in the morning, and a warm converstation... or a quiet evening, by a burning fire... what if you wont like the void ? (i may have gotten a little far with it, i hope you get the point though) there are a lot of pending business we need to attend to, before the void, or enlightenment would REALLY be palatable to us. otherwise is just a thought. for example, the meditation part of your system, szg, is something that relates to practices belonging to kan and li level in UTS, which is not taught right away specifically because of the "pending business" i speak about. if they are not solved, you may seek enlightenment, when all you need to be really happy, would be something else, like a fresh donut, offered by your mother... well, maybe something else, you feel the blanks... it's only in our mind

how much more important is to learn these things... but people are more atracted in learning how to spit fire and crap thunder... with or without lineage

Ditto. Or as someone else put it, Ling related phenomena. The elixir, solid base that would be accounted for any abnormal phenomena, takes a longer time to cook. The fact that they happen alot faster... kind of indicates in that idea. My teacher told me that influence of spirits, either good or bad, in daoism, is as sought as the influence of tape worms. That is, it's not sought. We're just shooting in the dark really, but nevertheless with some experience, and good observation, our conclusions could be right. How about the repeated allegation that Kunlun predates Buddhism and Taoism. As far as I know, the only practices older than that are spirits-related. IF this is the truth, then Kunlun could be sidetracking the practicioners that seek faster energy and spirit effects in their life. Im not the one to judge, but as i repeated often, a couple of months ago, if you dont have a philosophy and a good story to back up your practice system, people will start making judgements on their own. It's interesting to observe the evolution of Kunlun practice, in the interaction with western practicioners. There is no such thing as fast effects and results. The old chinese character for Alchemy depicts an alchemy oven and the sign for divination, pointing at the time cycles. They seem to be largely dependant. What do you think? L1

Thank You Everyone for the wonderful contribution to a subject that is easily passed by, and hardly remembered by practicioners... You are all a blessing... and Xeno, the answer to your question was largely given by Lin, no one can steal the right to be a father from you... if you dont find it from your parents, you can dig it out of the deep large ocean of your ancestor's energy and spirits... They are with you. The practical pointer of it is: Our energy is not really ours. That's why many practicioners dont get too far, other than learning a fiew energy tricks. The deep, core issues, are to resolve the pending affairs with Heaven, Earth and Ancestors. Only with their support we can go and fulfill our mission. Our energy is not really ours, we cannot do with it as we please, not yet... remember that. I am still waiting for other contributions to this thread, there are many more that i feel must have valuable insight on this. Please dont be shy, come and share with us, it has such a healing effect on us all. Many many thanks to all of you L1

how about this: justice belongs to the strongest. power games, power games... thelearner's posts on family stuff are wonderful, so are yoda's....

this may yet be my most important "contribution" to taobums the practice of connection with the Spirit, in Christianity my respects L1

hi Xeno, Really, some information on Scientific Psychollogy will make us understand many things about taoism... give it a try. It's like this... the Chinese Mind model is not the same with ours. We need some additional gears to make contact with it. You cannot find them easily just studying the Chinese Mind, and many of them are just in our backyard, 101 Psychollogy. I know it doesnt sound very convincing, and i dont know what other arguments to post on it. I know it's true, and why, i just cant explain it coherently yet. i hope you will sense it though... you can say also, that what you dont understand, is just a limit, inviting you to cross it. L1

Thank you Taomeow I think there are two views on this, the taoist one, and the buddhist one. The taoist view is Ziran, "Just So", and the buddhist one focuses on not perpetuating the "Instruments of Suffering". I largely agree with the taoist view. As for adopting children, i do belive it is an honorable choise. But i also think it must come second to having your own offsprings. If you can raise your children well (the first duty), and still have enough resources to adopt other children, then you really are a hero in my book. Complaining about the rules of society, and trying to break them, i dont think it's very smart. It's because these rules are embedded in ourselves so deep, that the only easy "wu-wei" sollution would be to obey to them. Hence the Chinese mixture of Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism - their spirituality is a unique blend of the three: paying your dues to Gods and Buddhas, to Society, and to Nature. And as Taomeow put it so sweet, to your own children. The first form of longevity is having a family.... The first form of immortality is having children... L1

i was worried for a moment there, but this seems to turn out really ok. DEEPEST THANKS to all who are in favour of paying one's debt to family, ancestors and society... Chang Sanfeng once said that: 1. For the first stages of the practice all you need are some good basics and a nice kick in the butt, to go on with your life, enjoy it, make the best out of it, start a family, help the society, help the world..... 2. After you fulfill your debts, then you are ready... the average age? 50-50 some. It's the age that Chinese say a man is fully grown. 3. Some interesting quote: those that do not proceed with this schedule, from Chang Sanfeng point of view, are not even worthy of noticing. Maybe Taomeow can help me a moment here: Dear Feline, i have a theory that goes like this - your being is largely a donation to you from three sources: 1. The Ancestors 2. The Earth 3. The Heavens if you want to do anything with yourself, you need to first pay your debt to these Three Sources of your LifeForce. Paying the debt, to either ancestors, earth or heavens - im sure there are thousands of accounts for it in mythology and relligion. Then, after winning the trust and support of THE THREE, your Path is open. Well, what do you make of it? Others?

Okay, thanks and do keep it coming... L1

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Thanks Yoda! Every insight on this is priceless... L1

it's pretty simple, 101 psychollogy really, it's the same way with your relationship with your parents. generally speaking, people can find their true love ESPECIALLY when they come to understand their parents. the ones that formed you, and shaped your body-mind the most. the exact same think happens with religion. you inherit, since childhood, a specific way to connect to the Spirit. it's the way your parents and ancestors did it. bottom line is, if you want to really understand the practices you are into now, you need to accept and understand the religion that you have been born with, whatever it is. it's a kind of interface, with whatever you do need or want to study further. so in any event, discussions about the main religion of Western culture should be at least a small part of every board that wants to discuss topics like daoism buddhism lamaism whatever... you cannot understand other noodles unless you know what your flour is made out of... hope it makes sense to you too please think again respects L1