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WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE "FLYERS" YA'ALL "The portion of the universe accessible to us is the operative field of two radically different kinds of awareness. One, which includes plants and animals, and also human beings, is a whitish awareness; it is young, a generator of energy. The other one is an infinitely older and more parasitic awareness, possessor of an immense quantity of knowledge. "Besides men and other beings that inhabit this Earth, there is in the universe an immense range of inorganic entities. They are present among us, and occasionally they are visible. We call them ghosts or apparitions. One of those species, which seers describe as enormous, black, flying shapes, arrived here at some point from the depths of cosmos, and found an oasis of awareness in our world. They have specialized in 'milking us'." "That is incredible!" I exclaimed. "I know, but it is the pure and terrifying truth. Have you never wondered about people's energetic and emotional ups and downs? It is the predator, who shows up periodically to pick up his quota of awareness. They only leave enough so that we may continue living, and sometimes not even that." "What do you mean?" "Sometimes they take too much, and the person becomes gravely ill, and may even die." I couldn't believe what I was hearing. "Do you mean we are being eaten alive?" I asked. He smiled. "Well, they don't literally 'eat' us, what they do is a vibratory transfer. Awareness is energy and they can align with us. Since by nature they are always hungry, and we, on the other hand, exude light, the result of that alignment can be described as energy robbery." "But why do they do it?" "Because, on the cosmic plane, energy is the most powerful currency, and we all want it, and we humans are a vital race, stuffed with nourishment. Every living being eats other beings, and the most powerful always comes out the winner. Who said man is at the top of the food chain? That idea could only have come from a human being. To inorganic beings, we are the prey." I commented that it was inconceivable to me that entities that are even more aware than us could be predatory to that extent. He replied: "But what do you think you're doing when you eat a lettuce or a beefsteak? You are eating life! Your sensibility is hypocritical. Cosmic predators are no more and no less cruel than we are. When a stronger race consumes another, inferior one, it is helping its energy to evolve. "I have already told you that in the universe there is only war. The confrontations of men are a reflection of what happens out there. It is normal for one species to try to consume another; a warrior does not complain about it, and tries to survive." "And how do they consume us?" "Through our emotions, properly directed by the internal dialogue. They have designed our social environment in such a way that we are constantly shooting off waves of emotions, which are immediately absorbed. Best of all, they like attacks of ego; for them, that is an exquisite mouthful. Such emotions are the same anywhere in the universe where they occur, and they have learned how to metabolize them. "Some consume us for our lust, anger, or fear; others prefer more delicate feelings, like love or fondness. But they are all after the same thing. Normally, they attack us around the area of the head, heart, or stomach, where we store the thickest part of our energy."

he could fake many things, and am sure he did, and he mixed up some of the elements of the teaching, maybe on purpose. but there are a lot of things that he couldnt fake. and they are there... BUT please, im not as much pro CC, im pro learning from whatever source life puts ahead of you

some say it takes much courage to be a believer, as much as one needs to be an unbeliever it's a personal choise, we are part of the forces that make the world be what it is

Not that i know of, no. There is no hard proof of it. He didnt even want much proof of his mere own existance There are but a fiew pictures that could be taken of him. It does not work with proof, neither with belief. It seems to work with the personal checking of the affirmations in the book. As you gradually gain more energy, you can check even more farfetched allegations... I had the energy of checking a couple of them, and for me they worked out pretty good... L1

thanks also for the positive input, Meow, Smile there is an immensity of astounding things that can be found in his work, both as principle and as praxis. but one of the most candid insights i ever picked out of it was: the training and the peculiar qualities a warrior can develop arent by far sufficient for the acheivement of the goals of the path. they only insure the luck of having a small chanse at it. seen this way, the training and study begins to look different, for me at least turns into a relationship with life, an act of increasing awareness of life, of all that life is and can be. i strife to be the best witness that i can be to this miracle world, and this miracle life. it can have so much meaning... it can awake the yuan shen. L1

greetings, the more inner smile you add to it, and the more you learn to feel the earth, it will be better in the long term. the way you do it is good to, i reffer only to long term results, that's it. dont ask, wont comment any more.

I had the luck of seeing how a student becomes a teacher. He understood his teacher only when he became a teacher. Not only that, but he repeated the faults he saw in his teacher, tenfold. I still dont know why, but its interesting to observe that. Wasnt this type of behaviour Winn did criticise when he himself was only an instructor? edit: first make a distinction between the teachings, and the teacher. then you will find out you can learn more from the teacher, than from the teachings, eventually

of course you disagree. but i cant contradict you. im not here to prove anything. good luck L1

"Most people feel empty when they don't have love or friends, because they have built their life on a superficial base of relationships and they don't have any time left to ponder their destiny. Unfortunately, friendship is generally based on an exchange of intimacies, while a basic premise of mundane relationships is that everything we say some day will be used against us. It's a sad fact that the ones we care about the most, are also our worst headaches! "Sorcerers maintain that talking about ourselves makes us accessible and weak, while learning how to be quiet fills us with power. A principle of the path of knowledge is to turn your own life into something so unpredictable that not even you yourself knows what's going to happen.

i've watched it, and even reccomend it, together with other masterpieces like "Enigma of a Sorcerer". i used to have a BIG file on it, i really ment it when i said i heard all the AGAINST, and PRO castaneda debates. i have friends that are so into it, they dont want to hear about anything else. and did i mention im not any more in this system? the reason i post all the above material is for a simple reason: their philosophy, the way of the warrior, is just great, and was very functional to me, when i encountered it, a long time ago. the principles i addopted from it were eye-openers. there are a lot of unanswered questions that i still have on the subject, and i feel someday i will find the answer to then. but i dont throw the baby with the water, no sir. it's not my game. plain and simple: you can find the great light within everything, so try to learn from anything life puts on your path. shikin haramitsu daykomio.

Well, everybody is entitled to an oppinion, thank you L1

To seek freedom is the only driving force I know. Freedom is to fly off into that infinity out there. Freedom is to dissolve; to lift off; to be like the flame of a candle, which, in spite of being up against the light of a billion stars, remains intact, because it never pretended to be more than what it is: a mere candle. Don Juan Matus, The Art of Dreaming

i think Xienkula1 is right: we are not only debating the authenticity of some teaching, but the way the human mind itself functions I think what CC is trying to say is that knowledge by itself cannot ultimately make any distinction amoung men. but the power to act upon it, and make it a living thing. now THIS, IS debatable...

Ok, let's put it another way... what are the things that definately convinced you that CC was a fraud. I can tell you my experience. In ten years time i have heard every conceivable argument in favour or against this idea, and all of them were good and solid. If you dont belive it, we can start one, you give me the DONT's and i will give you the DO's. It will take a while, and we will probably get nowhere. So here's the thing, what decided for me if they are authentical or not was not on a mental debatable plane. The were alive to me, and made me more alive. Whether tensegrity movements were stolen from someone else or not, or the ideas, i would live that to theproper authorities to investigate, but up until now, even thow a lot of money is in the issue, no one came with a definate proof. This is not to say i belive them because of it, it's just one fact. If i put my mind into it im sure i would have came up with a more attractive set of movements to rock the market, i wouldnt have to steal it from someone. As for the bell issue, if we are to continue it... the master of the bell couldnt know, because all the good bells ring the same way, ring for awakening. By the way, the real master of such bells is only Infinity, which seems to have a definite interest of multiplying and fabricating such bells, im not sure to what means IT does that, and IT doesnt care about our sense of property, knowledge of this kind is universal, it springs out from many and all the traditions. The worst detractors of CC agreed on a couple of thingst though: one of them is that he didnt do it for the money. I promised i wouldnt copy/paste no more, but i just cant help it. Somebody stop me I commented that, according to what I had read, divulging secret knowledge is characteristic of 'black' sorcerers; on the other hand, 'white' sorcerers transmit what they know with restraint, because they are aware that knowledge involves a certain danger to those who are not prepared to receive it. Carlos shook his head with incredulity. "But what is going on with you?" he asked. "What destroys us is ignorance, not knowledge! There is nothing in the profundities of knowledge that can put man's authentic interests at risk! Carlos demanded that I define the term 'initiated'. This got me in trouble, since in fact I didn't have a very clear idea about this. Making an effort, I explained to him that initiates are people who, thanks to their merits, become recipients of a particular traditional knowledge the rest of their fellow men do not share. While I spoke, Carlos agreed gravely. When. I finished, he commented: "That definition is a portrait of the importance you grant yourself". He maintained that classifying human beings for what they know is a mere arrangement of the collective inventory, something like making distinctions among a line of ants because some are slightly darker than others. "The ironic thing is that we human beings do in fact divide ourselves into two groups: Those who dissipate their energy, and those who conserve it. You can call the last ones whatever you want, sorcerers, Toltecs, initiated; and it's the same whether they have a teacher or not. Their luminous reality is such that they are a step away from freedom.

yet another taste of it. disclaimer: "The information has an aura, anf only fiew know the right position for the eye to see it. Only those will understand that there is a secret order within the information. Without it, the information is not informative any more" I.P. Culianu - "Mircea Eliade" - which means this kind of information can be taken many ways, besides the correct way... "To open up to power is a natural process. No man can tell another: 'You are already open!' - unless he is a charlatan. Nor are there any shortcuts that will automatically bring us to freedom. The secrets of initiation are symbols of the arrogance of the ancients, keys without a door, they will get you nowhere. You can spend your life pursuing them and when you finally obtain them, you'll discover you have nothing. "You believe that what differentiates knowledge is the way it is transmitted, whether by books or by oral tradition. It has not occurred to you that both methods are the same, because both belong to our everyday agreements. What is important about the way you receive information? What matters is that you become convinced to act! "The method of sorcerers is the systematic saving of energy. They state that what separates men is not what they know, but how much energy they possess; therefore, the true way to transmit knowledge is in increased states of awareness. The appointment of sorcerers is not with a book or a ceremony, but with dreaming. When a warrior learns how to capture experience through his dreams, it doesn't matter under which label the teachings are presented, since his perception is pure and he can corroborate it with his seeing." i dont think i will be able to post other parts of the text any more, due to the laws that protect books and publications. i hope this has at least build some curiosity. L1

they look like supertech hidrogen bombs too as for the question: why celibacy and not retention? - retention practices work with a specific type of sexual energy - celibacy practices work with another type they are different ingredients, for different purposes good luck L1

allow me to disagree this time. this idea is part of my country's folk lore also. as with many of other ideas presented there... this is a mere taste of it. if you want, i can sent it to you by mail. i might be wrong, but i think this one is the kind of stuff you would fit well into, not specifically, but generally speaking. CC and his followers are very controversial figures, but let's not judge teachers, let's judge the teachings instead. as always open to suggestions, L1 edit: as for the lifted and unlifted issue... there is a saying: a stolen bell has the same sound as a bought one. so for me the criteria would be if it works out or not.

i studied CC and tensegrity for over 10 years now. the more you research into it, the lesser you feel to make absolute conclusions on it. i have mentioned in another thread that i think very fiew of his cohorts even understood the purpose of his work... this is not to say i do understand it. all i know is that it's not the one he claims he is. he was a first class trickster, and he tricked everyone into his game. the things that i've learned from such... they were, and still are, warriors of freedom. being a free warrior meant for them that they had to obey a complex set of rules and regulations called The Rule of the Nagual. their freedom was to be impecable. any other choise would have ment death for them. so it is so different from what modern seekers have as an attitude. i wont comment in what way. tensegrity movements, recapitulation and dreaming were the first activities they were taught. - tensegrity deals with the setting the body's parameters to be able to digest the huge quantities of energies they were accesing during dreaming and non-action meditations. - recapitulation was a clearing of the xin, the mental/emotional, and making an inner-world discipline of the shaman, that one needed in order to be fit for encounters well beyound human expectations. - dreaming... was meditation to them. they build an new type of assemblage point, anchored it's perceptions into it, and with it they hunted down power sources and knowledge from beyound. they did constantly reiterate that all of the training they were involved with, was not an investment, and the odds that they would fail their mission were alot bigger than the odds they would succeed. anyhow, it was the first meeting with a real school of teachings, that helped me make a structure of priorities and build a perspective, that i found no where else in what i've studied up until now. they helped me ward off wacky ideas about spirituality. i know it may sound a little creepy, but a real school is like a fire, if you dont know the proper distance, you will burn alive if too close, or freeze to death if too far. i felt like starting a new topic because of the new perspective that this ideas would imply. good luck L1 PS: feel free to add your own comments and posts on it, as i said, i dont know any truth, these are only a couple of things that worked out for me

put up a book for discussion in the Book Club, Encounters with the Nagual by Armando Torres see you there

thanx. a lot of the seekers are looking for the way for a simple reason: they cant fit inside this world, they cant fit inside their life, and both of these seem to run over their most intimate feelings on how LIFE is supposed to be. paths like the one CC described is not for the easy-life seekers, they are for people that found another way of dealing with the suffering: other than recognizing the illusory nature of the causes of suffering (ignorance), and other than transforming the negative into positive. what he speaks about is giving a meaning and sense to suffering, which can make a terrible force out of it. then the more you have it, the stronger you become. intriguing... also the intense passion for life that it develops... which does not bow to any dry abstract philosophical argument L1

hint: what happens with vitamin c after it does the job in the body? it turns into........ which is....... im sure you can find the answers on the net, good luck

yes the body has many untold misteries, that are easier to look upon, and can clarify a lot more, than studying usure energy maps, interesting, huh

that sounds like a good plan there's another thing. "smell" activates another part of our brain, that was active before our mind slowly melted into the social matrix. that part has in it all the ancestral memories, and the abilities that went along with them. how cool is that !? now, the predisposition to "receive" the world mainly thru as an audio-visual image, has deprived us of our magical heritage. thanx L1 PS: the cargo cult theory is really interesting

drew, you rock. how can you tell that O at a D is not energetic ejaculation? it's great you are really interested in scientific investigation of such phenomena. you have learned all that you need to know. but i think you desperately need only one thing: a wife, two kids and two jobs. this'll put all your theories to the test. and if they fail, your DNA acheived immortality anyhow, if you know what i mean... good luck L1