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1. the first aroma, would be sweat, no doubt. 18 form, 36 repetitions each... 2. interesting way of sharing without sharing, you make me envious. 3. the best part of xiang gong is that the practice itself is hidden, and the teacher teaches it only directly to the student. it's not open, that's why i said those info above are not it. the third level is the practice itself. what seemed interesting to me... how about... can you "smell" the energy? how awsome can this be?! - Proc, can you share without sharing, on pre and post heaven? PM maybe? any clues? thanx L1

yes indeed it's a kind of practice where the leading of qi is forbidden... i think it is an early heaven - type of method, of no-feel, no-think, no-direct. i still wonder how is it actually produced. found an interesting article with an interview of Tian Rui Sheng: http://www.qi.org/fragrant/frag1.PDF neat! this early heaven / later heaven distinction is a killer... any help there Proc, Meow, others ??

the usual one... there are bound to be many others, but fiew of us know they even exist

oh that too why, do you know about some? i wonder how the body does it...

if they dont know what to do, the fluids transform, and they become "dry". there is not much left in our bodies...

not only it is beneficial, it should happen this way, if they really retain. the retaining force is build deep in their lower abdomen, as the strong suction force of the dantian. so everything is part of a bigger picture, you cannot plunge into retention practices without having some minimum practice basis of the dantian. the only way i can understand this situation is... they dont really practice, but rather only talk about practicing... i saw it happening to guys that were into this practice for only a year or so, and been merely trying to ejaculate more rarely, but this means they really have sexual power. in spite of the over-sexual stimulation in the west, i think the real problem is that sexual power, both in women and in men, is not what it used to be. we read some reports regarding the growth of infertility in the west, that are really scary. there are a lot of factors that determine it, which a simple-minded practicioner cannot control, electromagnetic pollution being one of the main. this is why i think taoism and science need each other. i'd rather not go too much into it. L1

Thanks, but this is not it. L1

non-physical sexuality... from what ive heard. physica sexuality is the first level of it, many of us stop just at this level. it is said that there are eight more levels. the thing is, if you want to go up, you have to master the physical part first, otherwise is just fantasy. it can happen though, if your MO is running neat, and been retaining for a while, sometimes when you sit next to a lady, or as a lady, next to a man, it can trigger orgasmic feelings going upward into the body... it may not be any intent in it, it's just a process of natural balancing. the one that has the strongest force, easy to guess, gains more from this experience... if your center is not well defined, the energy scatters, and it can turn into an energetic ejaculation... or so the story goes L1 it is, but plays a really minor part of it, there is more

i might be wrong, but from what ive gathered, the practicioners can use various senses to feel and direct energy. there are ones that use visual techniques (light, colour etc), others use kinestetics (heat, tingle etc), others use sound (they hear a sound during meditation, and work with it)... it seems xiang gong uses fragrances that seem to develop while performing certain techniques. this is why it is called that way. but it seems all the major resources on it are in chinese, many of them belong to prof. Pang Ming

yes he is on his world tour... interesting how the stem cell technology AND taoist practice have come together in the tao garden resort. he has been asked about some cases about stem cell practice results. they are really doing very well. they can treat a lot of problems, not seemingly, but really do it. so all the rumours that im sure you too have heard about, stand on just thin air. since a long time ago, he has enough money and fame to retreat and live in peace, but he is actively investing all he has in promoting a system that has helped a lot of people over the years. for instance, there are many that wonder where does he get his endurance, when he goes twice anually in his world tour... so... the people that use mantak as a refference only to retention practice... they should know that there is a lot more out there, and it seems that, until he will retreat one day, there will be, more and more. about the Later Heaven and the Early Heaven theory: i think is correct, but until a practicioner has gathered enough strenght to work with the early heaven forces, he can do a lot of improvement, both in his life, his health and his spirituality, just by working with the later heaven forces. some even say that this idea would be a prerequisite... we did the restoring of the original force practice, primordial breath and embryonic breath. the chi field he created for the practicioners, allowed us to work it out neat and clean. im happy i wasnt wrong to trust him, as i too had my fair share of doubts. L1

i have a wacky supposition... the buddhist and taoist claim there are seven emotions that drain our energy... even happiness they say drains energy... it seems that when a SENSATION and FEELING is MANIFESTING, when it comes into the Later Heaven, it is already lost... can it be the same with sex? what do you think? also, i dont mean to imply that managing your sexual energy and activity is obsolete, not by a long shot. L1 PS: I just came home from an Evening Seminar with Mantak Chia... The guy is really something.

hi, i dont even wonder if it is real or not, it sure is interesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtkjiFbhyXc...feature=related enjoy and feel free to comment L1

the ice is sexual energy frozen by the fear the fear is afraid of melting and puts up a nice show sweet

Hi there, i belive you are right, but there are a couple of other things one has to take into account, such as, some of the teachers that teach in workshops have developed additional teaching structures, some of them in plain view, some of them not... you should add more about the physiological changes that accompany the formation of a lower field, im sure there is enough interest in that, one more view on it wouldnt harm... if you feel like talking just to get you started i would comment on one of the things CC told the world thru his books: no matter how much one focuses the body, the energy and the mind, the human have a very small energy potential. in order to develop higher acheivements, one needs an active link with the other world, from where he can draw both huge amounts of power, and knowledge... that being said, what can we hope to accomplish.. L1

Good work Lin, keep it up

hey Cam, i think it's your old habit in a new form, remember threads like "name your best 1 2 3 teacher method and etcetera..." there is no BEST WAY, or BEST TEACHER, everybody and everything is good... it only depends on what you are after... different paths, different goals. good luck

What seems obvious to us, may mean something else to an expert. Please stop drawing conclusions based on what you heard here and there; because when it comes to making changes, the mind has to undergo a special training in order to allow it to become natural... Otherwise we only get an ego inflammation that will naturally lead to... failure. Remember the body-mind acts like one, and any change in the habits of the body, be it nutrition, sleep or sex or etc, has to be accompanied by a change of a simmilar magnitude, in your mind, attitude, view, understanding. AND VICEVERSA... if you want to engage in mental or meditative practice, your body has to undergo a special training, to be able to receive the benefits of the mind-work. AND OF COURSE... personal training is but one quarter of the work that a practicioner has to undergo. There are four others fields of his life that need to grow at simmilar speed with the training. Otherwise... is hard, unwise and not very statisfactory. On the long term, feelings of deep regret and unfulfillment become a hard burden. SHOULD BE ADDED... that personal training, even of the Five Fields Of Live, is still insufficient for greater purposes. The man can have an insignificant understanding of his purpose, if he doesnt add the practices of the Earth and Heavens. There is a lot to do, a lot to understand, a lot to allow to happen, a lot of small things that need to be fed everyday, the smaller they are, the more important. So many of them depend only on the common sense, and people would be safer and a lot more happier practicing them. It is a very strong foundation, and can mean a really nice accomplishment only in itself. These are delicate matters, temper-temper... good luck L1

i second that. please, forget the "do it yourself" attitude. when it comes to these things, it's very faulty. seek the advice of a specialist. good luck L1

more than a couple of people warned you about these things... i suggest you should check yourself up for a infection in that area. who knows how many years you will need to repair the damage... for instance, if you step on a plant when it is young, it will take it longer to grow, and will never reach the size and potency of an adult plant. your case, and others, should be a warning as in: not messing with your body if you dont really understand what it is you are doing. no offence. Edit: the worse thing is people come around blaming retention practices based on case like yours... hence the responsibility of any practicioner for what he/she is practicing... belive it or not, when we start to go public, one way or another we become refference points...

interesting, i heard it has a major role in the voodoo tradition also

use or loose, good advice haha the quality and quantity of sexual power is equal to the health and energy state of your organs and yes, too young to be worried about this it is a good advice to start the internal work only after the organism is fully mature especially if you do it without supervision until then, there are a lot of other things you should worry about, which, ironically, may have no connection whatsoever with your main interests now... isnt life a riot ??

quality sexual education is a hard thing to find these days, and i think this book offers a good example of quality education, for western-type mentality of course, sexual gongfu may mean a lot more than this. still, we would be better off taking one step at a time, learning the most common-sense things that would help a couple enjoy sexual life more. and add to it the exchange of sexual energy and emotional energy and mental energy, learning to share... if you want to go further, ok, but it is a very good starting point. deffinitions and interpretations may change from one level to the other, but this doesnt make the prior levels any less important. if you want to have a more intelligent approach to sexual activity, and sexual energy, as a man, start with Testicle Breathing, and learn how to share the energy with the woman. share, enjoy, and learn to respect the life force. if you hurry too much, it may take longer... good luck L1

personal history is easy to build and hard to erase, so pick any number between 25 and 30

Hi there, i thought these would be of some interest, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BsnEtwiy_k&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75EbKbazf0&NR=1 any comments? L1 PS: Its not only about the information, but with how it is transmitted. Also, the guy's spirit...

I agree on the picking part, fitting stuff into your paradigm wont get you anywhere, because if you fit them, they cannot shape you no more. This is their power: they are so apart of your paradigm, that you have to build some kind of conceptual and body-mind bridge. This is as good as a definiton of practice, as any. Regarding science and alchemy, i cannot help one very amusing observation regarding the vision of one of my main teachers. He is not the guy to get dragged away into the so complex taoist paradigm... he will face taoism on his own terrain. That is, modern science. If taoism has objective values, they can be discovered or acknowleged one way or another... you know, he's so funny... he couldnt care less about metaphoric alchemy texts... "Sup wit dat stuff??" He's not in a hurry also, his master is a little puzzled about this too. LOLZ. L1