gossamer

Dear Sir, The Dao is the air blowing across the prairie, the moon shining her silvery light on the water, the sun's power as it glints on melting snow, a lovers kiss......and the following bliss, the deep peace of the quiet forest, walking up the mountain path, and seeing all of the valley stretched out below. NONE OF THESE ARE IN CHINESE , but are mirrored in the HUMAN SPIRIT, I'm sorry sir, but you've mistaken the original LANGUAGE of the book, with "the POWER" of Dao! I'm just a novice at Dao, but I DO know this much. Do not mistake the great Dao, for one of the ten thousand things. Secondly, the Dao de Jing has great power, Laozi knew this, so did the guard who beseeched him to stop, and write it down (as much as one CAN) before he wandered off into the western mountains. Can the Dao de Jing chase demons away? I believe that it can, BUT it depends on how it's used. Please Sir, if you intend to be here, please respect US, even if some of us have not respected YOU, as perhaps we should have. I personally have deep respect for the Dao de Jing, please do not spit, on what I consider "holy". Thank you, gossamer

I bought this book last Summer, when it first came out. Tried to read it, and couldn't get off the ground (so to speak). I may try again when I finish the present book that I'm reading. Have any of you read it? Anyway, here it is, and if you've read it, I'd love to hear a reader's review. Thanks. Peace, gossamer http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Tao-Search-U...3959&sr=1-1

Our friend Stigwerd asked me what I had learned by reading over 40 (or so) translations of the Dao de Jing (Tao te Ching). I'd thought that I'd answer in public, if Stig would not mind. I was busy yesterday, or I would've answered then. I used live in Western Arkansas in the foothills of the Ozarks. When I first started really studying the Dao de Jing, I would walk out on this pier made of 'rip rap' (stones and cement) that extended way out into this huge lake (Lake Dardanelle). Water is the thing that's most like the Dao, so Laozi tells us. To read the DDJ by living water is a lovely thing. It takes one very near the Dao itself. Let me tell you how the Dao rescued me. In June 2001, I fell off a ladder, and broke my tibia plateau (where the knee and leg join together). It was a really bad break, and then I got an MRSA infection on top of that, I also got a very incompetent surgeon who butchered the inside of my knee. He cut out ALL of the ligaments, tendons and minisci (stretchy muscles), and literally cut my patella tendon in half, and left it dangling inside of my leg. He did all of this, because he felt that MRSA adhesed to all of these tissues, as it turned out, MRSA DID NOT adhese to ANY of these tissues!! This all took place in Paris, Texas, and they wanted to cut off my leg, and I refused to sign the release papers to allow them to do this. And I was transferred after all of this, to Dallas, TX. to Baylor Hospital (one of the very finest hospitals in Texas), and my surgeon told my ex-wife what this (so-called) surgeon in Paris had done, and he said that it was likely that I would NEVER walk again. Now, 10 operations later, I moved out of a wheelchair, onto a walker, and finally I WALKED into my surgeons office on my own power, using a cane (this was after months, and months and months of very tough and grueling physical therapy though)!!! At an earlier point, I once turned to my surgeon, and asked him how long that he thought that all of this would take, and he said: "A year and a half, to two years, and multiple surgeries". And I said: "I CAN'T handle THAT!.......he looked me right in the eyes, and said: "What's the choice?" I knew from that moment, that I would have to learn to live IN THE NOW. This is the GREATEST gift that the DDJ has given me, it taught me how to live IN THE NOW. Always before, I had lived in yesterday, or tomorrow, but very rarely did I ever live IN THE NOW. The Dao de Jing has the power of RETURN, to return us to our child like ways. And almost ALL children live in THE NOW. Now, I'll go into some technical details, if you'd not mind. I personally think that the Dao de Jing (Tao te Ching) is better translated by one who uses Chinese as his (or HER) birth language. There are very precise details in the DDJ that can be translated into English, but it takes someone who is actually able to THINK IN CHINESE, to do this. And there are other parts of the DDJ that pretty much CANNOT be translated into accurate word-per-word English. There are a FEW English translations that preserve the power of the DDJ, but only a few. Now, if I might use only ONE example of this: William Martin, in his 'A Path and a Practice', is extremely far off from the correctly translated Dao de Jing in Chinese, but how Martin teaches THE WAY OF LIVING, it's exactly like what Laozi taught. Martin teaches compassion, how to live with 'de' (or virtue), and Dao's Way of Return, and how to be frugal in the correct spiritual way. It's a powerful book explaining the inner workings of Dao for those who speak English. But it is NOWHERE near the correct Chinese translation. But these kinds of English TTC translations are the exception, and not the rule. In my opinion, the Dao de Jing should have the ability to rhyme, but yet follow what the 'Old Boy' (or the 'Old Master') really taught, poetry has a kind of mnemonic memory that can help us to recall, whereas non rhyming versions of the Dao de Jing do not have this kind of ability. Derek Lin's is such a translation, it tightly follows the Chinese, but in my opinion, lt lacks the ability to help the memory retain the DDJ. Each to their own of course, but this is what I see. My very favorite translation is David Hinton's 'Tao Te Ching', and I love Red Pine's 'Taoteching'. Stephen Addiss and Stanley Lombardo did 'Tao Te Ching', a very fine translation. And Sam Hamill, a poet, did 'Tao Te Ching', and I personally like Arthur Waley's 1900's English (as in British) translation too, simply called 'Tao Te Ching', but it leaves out a few prime lines of text. And then we could go into the differences between the Ma Wang Dui text, versus the Guodian DDJ texts, but that needs a whole 'nother post to speak about, pretty much. The Tao te Ching (Dao de Jing) is a starting point, and it has the ability and the POWER to literally help you build Virtue (or 'de') in your life. It has the power of nature in all it's glories, AND it's terrors, within it's pages. It's a manual that can TEACH YOU HOW TO LIVE, if you'll let it, now this requires real understanding, but I know that it CAN be done. And I think the memorization of the DDJ text is important, because it's difficult to always have the book with you. Although C.H. Wu's translation (another really great translation...and one of the first that I read) has been shrunk to pocket size, for handy carrying. And I must say that there are "New Age" translations like Stephen Mitchell's, that leave out large chunks of very important DDJ texts, and these are best ignored. So, don't waste your money! Trust the Tao te Ching (Dao de Jing), and it will lead you into Dao, learn to LIVE OUT this book, and it will show you how to live a Virtuous life. Begin to memorize this book, and you will have a living, spiritual companion on the Way. "He who knows the play of Tao and Te Knows the nature of the universe Tao brings forth Te from its own being Te expands in all directions filling every corner of the world becoming the splendor of all creation Yet at every moment Te seeks Tao This is the movement that guides the universe This is the impulse That brings all things back home." 'Tao Te Ching---The Definitive Edition' By Jonathan Star Peace, gossamer

Dear Stigwerd, Not only do I have that edition, I have his 'Esoteric Tao Teh Ching', too! And yes, both are VERY GOOD. Peace, gossamer

I'm reading this book for the second time right now, and I think for ANY Dao person, it's extremely important. It's also by Bill Porter.....AKA "Red Pine", who translated the 'Taoteching'. It's superb, I strongly encourage everyone here that's Daoist, to read it: http://www.amazon.com/Road-Heaven-Encounte...5928&sr=1-3

I have people who I consider good friends, on another Daoist forum, who are Philosophical Daoists. But the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is that most Philosophical Daoists are ATHEISTS. Perhaps because of my Christian upbringing, I need a "higher power", I'm not sure, but I find it disheartening that Phil. Daoist's DON'T believe in the supernatural. How can one believe in the Dao, and NOT believe in something more tangible then this earthly life?? I personally think that that's weird, but what do I know? I've always believed there's "something" that quite different than we humans. "Other", I'd say. Welp, that's about it, and I don't write this to disrespect my Phil. Daoists friends, either. I just wonder how can one believe in Dao, and not see it as different then we are?? Anyway, I was thinking of all of this, and just wanted to put it out there to talk about. Am I being weird thinking this, or not? Peace, gossamer

My story of seeing a spirit: In the late Spring of 1987, I was living on a kind of 'hippie commune' just West of Little Rock, Arkansas. The lady who owned this land had the first 'New Age' bookstore in Little Rock, across the street from the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. She was big time into "channeling", and Quartz Crystals (as most people know, some of the best Quartz in the world comes from Arkansas). Anyway, she had kind of "activated" her land (about 10 acres) with crystals everywhere. She and her daughters had horses, and one evening right at sunset, one of them got out of it's pen, and about six of us were trying to catch it, trapising through the woods and fields, I was in the lead trying to catch this pony. All of a sudden, right in front of me, was this rectangular 'thing' that looked like a children's rug (it's "fur" resembled Buffalo fur, especially around their necks) that one buys from Wal-Mart, but where we have arms and legs it had these sorts of 'appendages', and where it's head was, was this little bitty round thing. There was a stock pond just a few feet in front of it, and it seemed terrified (or that's the vibe that I got) that we were all after it, and it dove into the stockpond, I saw the water splash, and I heard it as well. It obviously had weight, and mass, to make the water splash like that. Immediately, it came to me that I had seen Anasazi pictographs that looked EXACTLY LIKE THIS. But those were about nine hundred + miles away, in New Mexico. This 'thing' was "running", but not as humans run, before it dove into the stock pond. So, those are my stories. I have two more, but I think that I'll wait till we all know each other better, to tell them. These stories (and a couple others) are the reason why I think that Laozi was actually speaking about REAL spirits in the Dao de Jing. Peace, gossamer

Dear Scotty, I DO know one thing, we're neighbors! I'm in Southern Iowa, maybe 80 to 90 miles from the Wisconsin border (maybe less). Minus 14 here tonight, tomorrows HIGH IS 8 DEGREES!!! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr gossamer

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that in the new testament, that the "Word" (in John's gospel) is translated "Dao" in Chinese. Now, I'm NOT saying that they are the same thing exactly (I know folks in Daoism who would get real angry, if I suggested this), but there is that similarity. So, yes, I think that you are probably right. Peace, gossamer

Ummmmmmmmm, could BE, but I've actually seen a physical spirit with a body, who or what created that? Or perhaps Dao IS a creative force, and it's as simple as THAT. gossamer

Dear Scotty, I'm just wondering. I see people who are basically compassionate, real seekers, enduring (with ME especially! lol) and yet they believe in no real kind of "higher power" (god or gods). I don't know, that seems strange to me. Laozi never spoke about a "god" in the DDJ either, but it just feels strange to me. But as I've told them, I've still got some (perhaps a lot) of Christianity in my head. The Daoists have treated me way better than the Christians, so "it's a paradox, buried in a riddle, hidden in an enigma" (from the movie: 'JFK'). Thanks for writing! Peace, gossamer

I've decided to spend the $ on 'Nine Nights With The Taoist Master (The Deluxe Study Edition)', by Waysun Liao. I'll give you guys a reader's review, when I get it, and read it. I have no expectations, but if it's good I'll let you know, ditto, if it's garbage, I'll let you know as well. Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Nights-Taoist-M...5734&sr=8-1 Peace, gossamer

Dear Sir, I have been reading your posts here at Tao Bums for some time now, and I find most of them very interesting and informative. I would like to ask you a question about the Dao de Jing and some of your comments about babies dying because of their "karma". I probably have somewhere over 40 English translations of the Dao de Jing, and I don't read a word in any of them about "karma". Now I know that the word "karma" is bandied about on this group frequently, and according to you and other Religious Daoists, it seems to be an integral part of your religion. If you could perhaps show me someplace in any chapter of the Dao de Jing where the word "karma" is found, I would greatly appreciate it. I've searched the Dao de Jing thoroughly and never found this word, nor a description of anything that closely resembles what we all think of as "karma". I also must say that it disturbs me that you think babies die because of "karma". You know, there are real things, such as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and other real medical reasons why babies die. I would frankly ask, who are YOU to determine that it's a baby's "karma" that caused it to die. I have asked this question here before about "karma". Aside from Stigwerd answering me, no one has ever come close to showing me anything that resembles "karma" in the Dao de Jing. It's my understanding that Religious Daoists believe in gods, demons, spirits, exorcisms, curses, talismans, and things of this nature. Could you possibly speak some more about this. Religious Daoism seems very much different from Philosophical Daoism, so much so, where it seems the two are hardly related at all. Now I realize that I've asked a lot of questions here, and that it might take a lot of room on a page to answer them, so I'll stop here and post this. I will await your answers. Thank you for your time and energy. Peace, gossamer

Dear Mr. Mak Tin Si, A deep bow of Respect. Thank you for taking the time to answer my queries. I honestly for the first time need to think about pursuing religious Daoism. That's a "Deep Impact" moment for me really. I thought it once before with our friend Stigwerd, as well. It seems that Dao is pushing me in a new direction. Thank you Mak Tin Si, and you too Stig! Peace, gossamer

Dear Mr. Mak Tin Si, OK, so I'm thinking if one practices Religious Daoism, one would need a Temple, isn't that correct? So, say one wanted to be a student of Religious Daoism, then one would need to live in close proximity to WHERE the Temple is, would they not? I mean if your taking lessons, it doesn't seem like you could do Religious Daoism lessons THROUGH THE MAIL, or something like that. So, the problem would remain it seems, to be an actual student and perhaps later, become an initiate of Religious Daoism, wouldn't one have live near his teacher? Thanks for your time and energy. Peace, gossamer

Dear Michael, I'm with Seadog, you wrote that real well, and I absolutely agree with what you said! Well said. Peace, gossamer

You know the whole thing about Daoists and Immortality.......have you guys ever seen the movie 'Highlander'?? I mean everyone that you know and love would die, and there you would be living on and on..........NOPE, not for me, thank you! I've lived a pretty hard life and I'm only 57, the thought of living forever would be a CURSE, if you ask me. I mean, if that's your deal, welcome to it, but have you ever really THOUGHT THIS IMMORTALITY THING OUT? Maybe you should! Peace, gossamer

Will you remind me To put on panties please! or you'll see something I wanna show someone should remind me

sin, please...? no sin within my toes, none! no sin within my nose

Dear Yoda, Anywhere NEAR the Coconino National Forest is a powerful place! The San Francisco Peaks are the most powerful place that I've ever been to, with the exception of Northern New Mexico. Anywhere near Taos or that part of New Mexico (where I used to live) is like "Go for throttle up!", the vibes are very, very powerful! Amazing!!!! Peace, gossamer

Dear Lin Ai Wei, You spoke my mind about words, and how they are used. I had never heard of the term 'gaslighting' before, but it fits well what it describes. lol I feel real power from your words.....alignment with Dao. Thanks a lot for your post. Peace, gossamer

Ummmmmmm, all I know is that i'm a "True Daoist" and ANYONE who says I'm not, is a damned liar! lol Happy Thanksgiving! gossamer

Dear exorcist_1699, If you think that reading the Dao de jing will leave you unchanged, than you've missed the whole point really. Laozi wrote those words so that we would ingest them, and become LIKE THE WORDS, or like the words MEANING. I'm not looking to become a magician, or "an immortal", or a religious person, really. I'm looking to become the most real, compassionate, and sagely ME that I can be. Do you understand this? If religious Daoism is what your looking for, I say good for YOU, but perhaps you can try to understand those who find Philosophical Daoism ENOUGH. I frankly don't think that anyone could read Laozi's words in the Dao de Jing and remain unchanged. That said, I bid you a Happy Thanksgiving, and Peace. gossamer

I think that some of you might find this to be of interest: http://zhouyi.sdu.edu.cn/english/yiology/sub2/aProbeInto.asp

I'm sorry Stig, I didn't know. Now I'm embarrassed, but at least I KNOW NOW. lol Peace, gossamer