Tao99

Well, in the Holly Dolly Mantra School, of which I'm a platinum level (supreme ultimate) practitioner, we don't believe that ontological "beliefs", "knowledge" or "experiences" have the power to change a person's reincarnation stream. The Great Machine - the Universe - doesn't operate that way. An African boy in the jungles of Africa needs no special knowledge/experience to avoid the "wrath" of the universal stream. So NO FEAR. We combine and unite the emptiness of Zen (wu) with the mantric form (yu) of the Holly Dolly Mantra, which we memorize and repeat, when not in Zen emptiness. Here's our Holly Dolly Sacred Holy Mantra: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hey Leon, you could memorize this ancient mantra and keep repeating it all day long: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Another type you could try is simple, basic Zen meditation: no visualizations, spirit guides, gods, judgments, or general thinking. Just relaxed quiet observation. The reason you can do this is because you already know your basic feelings about the world, so what's the point of constantly re-feeling? Why not have empty mind? Here is a brief explanation of authentic zazen-often called sitting meditation. Filmed at the Kokusai Zendo in Kyoto, Japan. This clip is from The Zen Mind by EmptyMind Films. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hey Leon, everything cool here. Here's one writer who did it and how she did it. Hers was a personal story too, but I think yours would have an equally wide audience. You could blog on opensalon just about the book telling little bits of it, like she did. http://open.salon.com/blog/expert_witness/...ess_gwen_cooper Here's tips on increasing your views: http://open.salon.com/blog/thomas_rogers_1...g_your_audience

You could try (inner) stillness during (outer) movement as in tai chi. Here you are not judging or thinking about what you will do tomorrow, or your problems, or your desires or pleasures. You are empty - devoid of content, in deep tranquility (stillness). At most there is 'quiet observation,' at least, there is a sense of flowing qi, selflessly following the laws of nature, the Tao, the Great Way, like a leaf in a stream. ... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Howdy I'm in total agreement - we can only work with what is there. One approach I prefer is to start with the raw translation - straight from just the Chinese characters given. At http://www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/daodejing01.php you can see these characters line by line, and by putting mouse over them, see their raw translation. So this could be called a Raw Translation. After this there is a simple Direct Translation keeping as close to the characters but phrasing it in English. My personal Direct Translation for Chapter 1 is below. Note that even these Direct Translations can vary. Beyond this there are Developed Translations drawing on Taoist philosophy knowledge etc and trying to tell the "story of the chapter" without any concern to matching the characters. I'd say yours is a Developed Translation. *****************************Tao99 Translation ********************************* Daode Jing Chapter 1 What is the Dao? 1 道可道, The Tao conceptualized 非常道。 is not the eternal Tao 名可名， The name named 非常名。 is not the eternal name 2 無，名天地之始, Without any qualities, it's the root of the universe. 有，名萬物之母。 Sprouting qualities, it's the mother of 10,000 things. 3 故常無， Emptied of all qualities, 欲以觀其妙； observe its subtlety 常有， Filled with qualities, 欲以觀其徼。 observe its boundaries 4 此兩者， These two make up 同出而異名， the one with a different name; 同謂之玄。 call them both mysterious. 玄之又玄， Mystery wrapped in mystery: 眾妙之門。 The supreme mystery doorway! *****************************************************************************

gone on off to an island in the sun ...

Interesting points.

Exactly, I thought the same - it's huge awesome that the government is now allowing and facilitating Taoism in China. And you raise valid points about how they are going to solve these problems and 'build a harmonious society' by adopting Taoist wisdom. Here's an article where you can see them beginning to formulate their modern theory. Harmony the Essence of Chinese Culture, Says Scholar (Xinhua News Agency April 26, 2007) http://www.china.org.cn/english/daodeforum/209429.htm "'Harmony' is the great gift the Chinese nation offers to the world," said leading Chinese scholar Ji Xianlin at the ongoing International Forum on Daodejing, one of the world's classic philosophical texts. The 96-year-old professor from Peking University made the remarks on a videotape screened at the meeting. According to Ji, Chinese culture can be described in different ways, but "in terms of religious belief, it consists of three parts: Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism." Ji said China had promoted the concept of harmony since ancient times and "in this day and age, we are again putting forward the great idea of 'harmony'." "We hope the whole world can accept this idea so that our global village can become more peaceful," he said. "Distances are contracting in our global village but problems are growing. Why?" asked the professor. "Because the world has been following the law of the jungle instead of seeking harmony," he said. "China's notion of harmony will help people all over the world understand, respect and love each other and stop fighting," he said. The professor also said that people should co-exist peacefully with nature rather than "conquering it". "Humans should have a relationship with nature that stresses friendship, equality and mutual respect," he said. "It's wrong to say one should conquer the other." -------------------------------- Are we witnessing the birth of the essence of the New Party Line in the 21st century -- Chinese leaders drawing on ancient cultural traditions, for the ancient cultural purpose of 'building a harmonious society'? Can we call this the Chinese Government's "General Theory of Harmony"? Can they use this adoption of ancient Chinese culture to get a shot at a viable world model? Will it conflict with some of their goals, and which one will be upheld? The view from the West of modern China is certainly clearer.

First I would study the current situation ...... China to Build Harmonious Society with Wisdom of Taoism (Xinhua News Agency April 23, 2007) http://www.china.org.cn/culture/2007-04/23...ent_1208446.htm China's high-ranking officials have called for adopting the wisdom of ancient Taoism to build a harmonious society. Daodejing, or the Classic of the Way and Virtue, was written by Lao Zi about 2,500 years ago, around the time when Buddha was expounding the Dharma in India and Pythagoras was teaching in Greece. "It is not only a precious gem in the treasure house of Chinese culture but a common spiritual wealth of the mankind," said China's senior official Jia Qinglin at a congratulatory message to the International Forum on Daodejing, which started Sunday in Xi'an, capital of northwest China's Shaanxi Province. The principle of being modest and peaceful in the book would provide an inspiring reference to China's ongoing construction of a harmonious society, said Jia, chairwoman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC). Daodejing has influenced the Chinese people generation after generation, as well as people of different countries, races, nationalities and languages, he added. "Today, in the 21st century, the ancient concepts and views of Daodejing still have important values," said Liu Yandong, vice chairwoman of the CPPCC National Committee. As one of the important classics of Chinese traditional culture, Daodejing manifests a great profundity of thought contained in pithy remarks. The book, consisting of only 5,000 characters, is a reflection of the lofty aspiration of the Chinese nation for amiability, happiness and harmony, said Liu. The forum, jointly sponsored by Chinese Taoism Association and China Religious Culture Communication Association, will be held from April 22 to 27 in Xi'an and Hong Kong. Involving 300 delegates from 17 countries and regions, it has been the first international forum of its kind that China has organized for the last 50 years. ----------------------------------------------

Hi Stig, I think a good place to start is asking what does the West want in the 21st century. They have an ancient one God religion and so a "Taoist religion" won't hold much interest or be much needed in general. So where does it fit in? Many people in the West don't consider themselves Hindus, or members of the Hindu religion, but they are yoga practitioners. They do it as a non-religious practice for health, fitness, and relaxation. I think the same will be true for the Taoist practice. So it won't be about "Taoist religion" or "Taoist philosophy" and Taoist philosophers, but about "Taoist art" and Taoist practitioners. These will be the Taoists of the West. In the same way it's all about "yoga" in the West (but not Hinduism), it will be about that "Taoist art" (but not Taoism), and for the same purposes. Now this Taoist art may include such Taoist things as Tai Chi, and still be a completely non-religious practice, yet go quite deep philosophically. I'd say there are plenty of translations available and they are quite sufficient to learn the Taoist art. But it takes a lot of actual book reading. And reading these books is a lot like being able to study with an authentic teacher (Taoist masters). After all, if these Taoist masters were standing in front of you, would they say anything different? It's true you can't ask questions or get feedback, but they chose every word carefully, and we are lucky to learn via the words of these undisputed, authentic, Taoist masters. Anyway that's my take on it all.

Hi marblrhead, your Laoist Taoism is different in a couple ways from my Huang-Lao Taoism (Yellow Emperor - Lao Tzu). Your example implies wu wei is a bad thing in some situations. But in HLT wu wei is not just "doing nothing", it means"non-contrived action" or action emptied of self-oriented scheming; action just following the natural flow (laws) of nature, like a leaf floats along in a stream. Anyway, have a good day.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/mBCVprX0WnY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param'>http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/mBCVprX0WnY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/mBCVprX0WnY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

never mind you fixed it. use [/b] at end, at front just the b to make Where is that stated? bold.

Yes that's a very good point and I completely agree. But of course what everyone is wondering is does that apply to Tibetan Buddhism and you as well? Is there room to doubt your doubts about the completeness, superiority, damnation power, High Truth capacity, etc about Tibetan Buddhism? Can we see? Then we would all be on the same page as you so wisely advise above.

Hey I'm with you. And he's been treated with a ton of tolerance and patience here. And so he's got to expect criticisms himself by the same rule right? Let the great debates begin and never end. I will begin by saying the Taoism practice is not incomplete - I can live just as well as you without adding any T. Buddhism. No fear. But getting back to the OP, I guess the problem is a lot thinking this website is a "Taoist website" and then getting here and finding it's not about supporting fellow Tao practitioners like an esangha, but a free for all about any practice and supporting/critiqueing it as strongly as you like. So maybe it should be called the Metaphysical Bums to end this confusion.

There's your problem right there, calling it an incomplete path IS an insult silly. Get your head straight. I'm sure if I was to pronounce over and over on your TB website that Tibeten Buddhism is an incomplete path (which I believe is true) what with no 3, no 7/9 not even 5, etc etc, you would find me rude no? You wouldn't respond? I bet you just can't WAIT to tell me how wrong I am. get real.

Yea that's your problem right there. Isn't that kinda rude on a non-Buddhist website? I don't have any inferiority complex. You really do think you are better then everyone else. And all because of some unprovable knowledge about dependent origination and emptiness. blah blah blah big deal. I'm not buying it. I think your wrong. And don't really care about it, don't want it, don't need it, and can live just as well without it. No fear. Tibeten Buddhism isn't interesting to me, no reason, nothing to argue about, just not my cup of tea. Just gonna keep followin the Tao and feedin my cat. Do you think the Buddha could accept that and stop "worrying" about me?

Actually, by your beliefs your ego has been "voided" not spiritualized, the spirit is exactly what you believe is delusion. You are not a spiritual being your a voided being or a "voidal" for short. You Voidals and your voidism have nothing to do with spirituality - in fact it's the exact opposite. But the whole debate between spirituality vs voidality is all unprovable metaphysics to me. And anyway it is what it is, and will be what it will be, regardless of what we believe, so best just to lighten up, let it go, and go feed the cat! Surely Buddha can agree with this no?

to convert the deluded spirits into soul-less mind streams? What fun! Anyway j/k, that's already been said and done. I'm sure if peace is our aim, the other stuff will naturally take care of itself regardless of beliefs, opinions, hunches, or guesses. But I'm sure as a superenlightenedbuddhaguy you already knew that! peace and greetings to you

he said "just eat the apple" as in don't make the discovery, just eat the apple.