Pero

Bodhicitta means different things in different teachings. In Sutra it refers to wanting to achieve Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. This is relative Bodhicitta, which is then divided into intention and application. Through training in that you realize Absolute Bodhicitta (emptiness). In Tantra it refers to the the red and white essences. In Dzogchen it refers to your primordial state. For this last one it is certainly enough to discover it and remain in it to achieve Buddhahood.

No, because Dzogchen and the rest of Vajrayana depend on empowerment. Sutra does not. I was not looking down on sutra BTW. Don't be ridiculous. The books with practice instruction are for his students, not for people without transmission. And he himself said many many times that you can't just learn from books but that you need a teacher. I wasn't expecting such foolishness from you. You don't need anything? Riiight. That's why we're in samsara. Because we don't need anything to realize the natural state. It's always there right? So easy. It's necessity for all Tantric practices. A flash is just a flash. That's not what the teachers think. I'm sure there is no Vajrayana book with instructions that says you don't need a teacher. In any case, having instructions for realization but no transmission from a teacher is like having a manual on how to operate a computer while not having any electricity to actually turn it on. In Vajrayana, the teacher is the source of blessings and realization. Without the teacher there is no realization. I don't feel like you've insulted my beliefs or something like that Mickaelz. But the thing is that I think that it's unfortunate to have this kind of belief because it will not bring one to Buddhahood with Vajrayana methods and probably also further contribute to the decline of Vajrayana. BTW, what happened with that Tara's Triple Excellence (?) program?

A book by itself won't lead any ordinary person. It can be a secondary cause for getting someone on the path but that's not the same as saying that one can achieve Buddhahood from reading books. Yes well, you don't need to receive transmission to practice sutra. Also, I never said one can't get some kind of experiences from reading books. However if you want to develop, achieve something of real benefit, you need a teacher. It would be nice if after having an experience we thought "oh there's really something to it, I better find a teacher and learn concretely" but it seems we think "oh you can learn from books. I should get more books." Anyway, you seem to think this is something I made up. I didn't. If you want, go argue with Shabkar or other Vajrayana masters and tell them that they're wrong and that they should stop making absolute statements. Now I find it funny that people like to read books of these masters so much and think them incredible and that they've had all sorts of realizations, while ignoring how important their teachers were to the masters. Basically in every text one of the first things is a homage to the teacher. But I guess I get it, since years back I too thought you could get everything from books.

You admit yourself they're rare so this is all pointless talk. You are talking about the condition today. I think that in the past in Tibet they mostly wrote for the reason I gave. Back then there weren't so many people that could read and those books certainly wouldn't get much if any exposure outside of Tibet. Heck there weren't many people that could read in the rest of the world either. As for today, sure it's kind of like what you say. But that is only for creating interest and turning people towards the dharma. Just from reading a book, even though one might benefit greatly, one will never be able achieve Buddahood. BTW, it's quite ironic that we're discussing this when a book by Shabkar was recommended where he cleary says: "He who practices the substance of this introduction without having received the transmission is like someone who starts in error on the first day and remains in error until the fifteenth." Sure but this has nothing to do with transmission.

What goes said is that you need a teacher. I doubt you'll find any justification anywhere for going without a teacher. They write books because there's a better chance there won't be mistakes while transmitting as opposed to having to rely only on memorization.

Better to stay clear from people making such claims.

This is just your idea I'm afraid, no master in history said you can learn it from a book, as far as I'm aware (hehe).

Yes. As far as I'm aware it never happened. People like Garab Dorje don't count.

No one can do that. Indeed.

I guess that's true, you don't have to study anything on Dzogchen, but you should certainly know what to do during the transmission. I suppose there could be some very rare exceptions to this, however IMO it's silly to expect that one is that exception. If it would be sufficient to simply listen and not do anything there would be no books on what to do during the transmission or frequent explanations of it before the transmission at various places.

I'm sorry, but just by "attending" the worldwide transmission you don't get anything. You need to learn what you're doing first. Though it is not possible for him to be your "personal teacher", I think that anyone who receives teachings from him, tries to understand them and apply them, is his student. There is a closer center, Merigar East in Romania. And he is planning to come to Greece next year, though I think if you can it's better to try to meet him when you know you can. Because the future is the future and many things can change. It is possible to speak with him for a few minutes after a teaching. Also, in general one shouldn't speak about one's experiences to total strangers.

Perhaps, but appreciation is kind of irrelevant. Even if it weren't, ones appreciation of Buddhism doesn't have to come because other religions are present, that is, comparing it to other religions. It can come because of Buddhism itself.

I'm not really sure how this is related. Everyone can follow the Buddhist path. Even if everyone followed it, I could still follow it too. It does not follow that if everyone is following Buddhism I cannot. Even if the only religion present would be Buddhism, it would still be Buddhism. It just wouldn't differentiate itself from other religions as there would be no need for it. I actually think it's closer to the opposite of what you said. I can follow Buddhism because there still are other people who follow it. If there were none, I would not be able to follow it. If people don't follow the same religion it's much more likely they'll be hostile to someone who would.

Also Aaron, your view of things seems a little naive to me. Just because someone calls himself a Buddhist it doesn't mean they're perfect. Buddhists are just sentient beings who try to follow to the Buddhist path, some are better at it and some of us are worse at it.

First of all, the second part makes no sense. As for the first part, I do. I don't bug people about what path they're following. They can follow whatever they want.

So a bunch of other people say things much more likely to be insulting, and much more often, and you go at me for one comment? Are you afraid of the others or something? Thanks for the reminder about examining the intention though. And I mean that. Perhaps that was an insulting comment, I'm not entirely sure. But I didn't want to intentionally insult Seth, I actually like him otherwise. It's a fact? In any case, you would do well to apply your advices to yourself.

You're kidding right? Telling someone he's mistaken is not wrong speech or whatever. I have not insulted him (on the other hand I could consider myself to have been insulted in this thread, more than once, including by you right now, I'm not so easily insulted though). I guess the only possibly insulting thing I have said to him is "new age people like you".

That's fine but it's just your idea. This is fine in Buddhism too, if you follow Sutra teachings. You seem to have the misconception that a teacher can enlighten the student. It's not like that. A student is responsible for his own enlightenment. This was only due to their past karma. I see you don't think that way but you're mistaken. Hocus pocus non-sense is your idea that someone can simply enlighten you with just talking. It's not impossible, but you have to have done the work so to speak for it to be possible. You mention pointing out, but it doesn't mean you get enlightened if you understand, it is just the beginning. Afterwards you still have a long way to go. Also, mantras and pujas aren't the main point, that is true, but you're mistaken if you think they have no value. Anyway, enlightenment is not an easy thing. I know new age people like you have this kind of idea, and perhaps they get to whatever enlightenment they believe in, but achieving Buddhahood is no easy matter.

First of all, I'm not anybodies posse but my own. I actually don't agree with the way Vajrahridaya does things at all. You're right, I'm a nobody. I decide nothing for others, however I am free to express my opinion in any way I like. And my opinion is that this would be a waste of time for Rinpoche. Heck, I actually think it's a waste of time for everyone involved. Anyway, it is unlikely he changed his mind about discussions on Dzogchen since the E-Sangha days, so I told you he would not approve of this, like he did not back then. I think that if he saw how you people behaved here now, his opinion against it would be even more cemented. Also, I don't feel fear because you want to tell Rinpoche about it. If anything, I feel a little sad about it all. Fine, perhaps I should send him an email to complain about your threat and insults too? Don't worry, I'd never do that. For every thing you accuse others of, you're doing the same. Like I said in the begining, you just added a lot to the "drama". If you hadn't showed up in this thread it's possible it would've died out by now. Look, you're a total newb here. You don't know the past posts of Ralis (and GoldIsHeavy for that matter). Also, this way of discussing seem to me to be something pretty normal here, actually it's probably milder now if compared to the past. Every one of the posters engaged in this debate is an adult, even if the behaviour might not necessarily suggest so. So since we're adults I imagine we can take responsibility for ourselves.

You've just added to it, perhaps more than anyone so far. If you really want to know Rinpoche's view I can already tell you since a similar situation arose on E-Sangha once where someone decided to tattle on the discussions, but at least he did not make into a kind of childish threat like you. Anyway, he would not approve of this discussion, at all. So there is really no need to bother him about it, he is busy enough as it is, without having to read pages of some pointless drivel. I doubt anyone is interpreting it as such.

So so. There are some good things and some not so good things hehe, just like with any other person I guess. I hope you're well too. I wish... But no such luck. There just hasn't been much here that I was interested in enough to participate in a discussion.

When I attended Tibetan Buddhist teachings in person for the first time, I had no idea in my mind to do any prostrations. But after the teacher came in I realized quickly enough that I was the only one left standing LOL. So I thought I better do some too. But while doing them (or perhaps it was already during the first one, don't remember), I suddenly realized that I was doing prostrations not because of devotion or respect or anything like that, but because I was worried what other people would think of me for not doing any. I realized then that much more important that outer showing of supposed devotion is the state of one's mind. If you have devotion in your mind then it doesn't matter whether you prostrate or not. I haven't prostrated to a teacher since that time, except in a dream, but that time was different. I also tried practicing prostrations for Ngondro, but only did a couple hundred altogether. It's great that they work for others but I don't see a point in them for me. It has nothing to do with pride, it's just something I feel no connection with. I often thought that it would've been better for me to do bows from seiza position, because I practiced Aikido for a couple years and got quite used to it, so that actually holds some meaning for me, while prostrations hold none. However unlike Ralis, I don't think that prostrations hold no value in general or that they're there for the teacher or anything like that. I do think their value depends on the person quite a bit, just like with any other practice. edit: BTW, whatever happened to SongsOfDistantEarth? I've sent him a PM some time ago but received no reply. Is he not around anymore?

Ok, please show me where you found he said that. What? I don't understand.

I don't know why you guys bother. Saw the thread. Saw the number of posts of the creator (2). All was clear.

I doubt the Buddha said that. Bad Karma + Good Karma = Bad Karma + Good Karma So in your example, that someone would've accumulated the negative karma of killing in full and next to that the positive karma of helping his friends.