cloud recluse

TAO OF ZEN is a neat little book claiming that Zen is really Daoism in an ill-fitting Mahayana disguise.In order to do so,it has to distinguish between the two,and presents a critical look at the historical plausibility of the Zen lineage.I dont know of other works solely devoted to contrasting Buddhism & Daoism directly,if you find any PLEASE tell me immediately Havent checked out the HT debate yet,but will definetely have a glance. Regards,Cloud.

Isnt there a Zen term ,"Dead Void Heretic",for someone who clings to Emptiness,setting up Form as an antagonist to Emptiness,& so refuses the final release into the nondual ?(I like the idea that the only real "refuge" is to plunge back into it all without looking for some final immunity). Im sure Ive come across it,but cannot place it.Any ideas anyone ? Id love to find a "scriptural" reference. Regards,Cloud.

If you are truly ready,then youve probably dealt with a lot more stored up tension than a lot of other people.A false hug generates stress,as you point out,which is too much for me personally.Either it sets off my own internal stressors,or I simply find the politics of it too tiresome to tolerate.Or perhaps Im just becoming boring in my old age But if your a fully fledged Hug-Warrior,then more power to ya!! Regards,Cloud.

Well ,"THINGD HIDDEN.." does sound attractive,not in the least by virtue of its critique of Nietzsche,Jung & Campbell(Having once been overly smitten with them,any critique in that area grabs my attention).I just have to find a copy!What precisely are you looking for with POCM?Pagan predecessors,Scriptural exegesis,early church histiry ?Its a pretty broad area.And no,none of it will be from "Bubba-Who -Am-i-This-Week".Actually,I just prefer to call him Frank,it was good enough for his parents,and a thread on him is a great idea. Regards,Cloud

Hey Hajii,do you feel like youve unleashed a dark & virulent antichristian upon this thread Seriously though,Ive been rereading my posts & comparing my fairly intense statements with everyone elses far calmer ones.If anyone out there has been disconcerted by my language I do apologize.Ironically,I have been influenced quite positevley by Christians in various aspects of my life,and I have no problem with people drawing inspiration from the Christ SYMBOL as such.Just wanted to make that clear Regards,Cloud.

Thanx Peregrino.Just took a quick look then & they look promising regards,Cloud.

'My body is like a phantom,like bubbles on a stream.My mind looking into itself is as formless as empty space,yet somewhere within sounds are perceived.Who is hearing?"-Bassui,'Sermon on One-Mind'.

Emerging from a troubled sleep,the Cloud Recluse surveys his shattered psychic landscape,fearfully observing the demented bigots striding across it,and starts to wonder if hes bitten off more than he can chew.Obviously lacking the maturity to deal with his own darkness,he tries to recall the gentle,laughing face of Alan Watts to block out the images of leering yobbos chanting "One of us,one of us".Battle ye not with Dragons,lest on of them bites you on the arse,and gaze not into the Abyss,lest you fall into a trailerpark.So speaketh the Cloud Recluse

This might sound a bit cowardly,bit Ive actually become very cautious with hugs,in both giving & receiving.I really do prefer to err on the side of caution nowadays.The reputation of hugging needs to be "unsleazed" so Platonic (for want of a better word) hugs can be trusted again.Theres only a coupla people I have real hug-trust with.I dont know if Im overreacting,but thats where Im at Regards,Cloud.

Gratifying to read a reference to "wild spirit" as an aspect of awakening Regards,Cloud.

Hmmm.Im not sure if I have really understood mimetic theory.I may have leapt to conclusions,as I did find the Girard bit unsatisfactory & it provoked a bit of a sugar-fueled reaction in me( yes,Ill try the twinkie defence).I am admittedly wary of anything trying to sidestep important historical data,especially in regards to something that has impacted our world as much as the Judeo-Christian creed. Regards,Cloud.

Isnt that its strength

Rick,"The Golden Guru" isnt just a recommended read,its an EXCELLENT read It fascinated me.Its been a while since I read it though.Why was Dr Singha excommunicated?I got the impression that Rajneesh was scared of physical discomfort and preferred quick-fix approaches.Was he impatient with Dr Singhas methods?Or didnt Singha feed Rajneesh's ego enough ?Its intruiging how an individual can go through dramatic spiritual experiences,& then use those experiences to reinforce their ego-strategies ( In Baghwans case,the attempt to gain immunity for interpersonal need & loss).

Actually ,Ive just realised I can give you a reference right now. Look for "Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth",should take you to the POCM site.Its chock full of historical references & reviews of published research . Regards,Cloud.

Thers still debate & uncertainty about a lot of the Mysteries of course,they wernt exactly a forthcoming crowd.But in relation to Christian origins,you seem to have a situation where Constantine needed a single religion that tapped into the general theme & mystique of the Mysteries,but was open & accessible to the average citizen.The Mysteries were renowned for ardous initiations & trials,they were unapologetically elitist.Pauline Christianitys sacraments & publically open theologies were simply 'easier'.The Cults usually revolved around themes of a dying-reborn god who transcends wordly limitations.By re-enacting the gods trials,often painfully,the initiate partakes of the gods power.The Christian got Christs Redemption through far easier means,a mere baptism & profession of creed.The Cults often neglected any kind of broader social philosophy & couldnt counteract Roman decadence,whereas the Christians had a clear social vision.The very success of the Mystery Cults made them part of an elitist establishment that desperately needed overhauling.The prime example is of course Mithraism,the Cult of choice for the militairy & the early churches main rival. Now the Mysteries werent the only rivals ,as there was also the Stoics.But once again,the Christians were able to provide a more appealing answer to the qustion of individual morality,the Holy Spirit could make you innately stoic,as well as having a vision of social enagement that the typically Roman hyper-individualism of the Stoics had difficulty with....Anyhow,this is all just off the top of my head,you might have to give me a few days to come up with up to date references in what is still a contested feild Regards,Cloud.

FREE STUFF !! Where ? Tell me,tell goddamn you !! I want freebies Regards,Cloud.

Do false hugs kind of creep you out ? They really leave me unsettled Sincere hugs,uncontrived & honest,thats a gift !

Holding it right in front of me & flipping through it.Yes,there is cool stuff on meditation & breathing.It may be stuff your allready familiar with (the copy Ive got here is printed in 2002),but the simple fact of it being there reassures me of the broad compatability that Irkk referred to.Im going to try to get the dvd tommorrow Regards,Cloud.

OH MY GOD!!!! what a nightmare vision !!! Thanks for destroying my chances of a sound sleep tonight I think Im beginning to glimpse the dark side of your nature Regards,Cloud

COOL,a "mimetic rival",Ive never had one of those before (I think ).Its like a new toy Youve raised a really tricky point.While thers certainly been a development in thought occuring within the cultural matrix of "Christendom",using the text as a reference,is there any development in the text itself ?I dont deny the text has been used to support worthwhile things,but Im skeptical those things were intended by the authors. However,you might be interested in Jungs archetypal interpretation in ANSWER TO JOB,tracing a development of self awareness in the figure of Job,that then demands a reciprocal deepening on the part of a till-then-unconscious Yahweh.I dont hold with it myself,but if you havent read it yet,take a look. Oh god i wish it was!I havent actually seen Violet Crumble for ages Just the abundance of Easter eggs at the moment.

Have you seen David Brazier's THE NEW BUDDHISM:A ROUGH GUIDE TO A NEW WAY OF LIFE ? It deals with engaged Buddhism,& actually makes the point that social engagement was part & parcel of the original vision! The Sangha emerges not as a renunciation of life,but as an alternative social model to mainstream society ,a healthier form of living IN the world.You might want to check out Ray Grigg's THE TAO OF ZEN for an interesting look at the Daoism vs Buddhism thing Regards,Cloud.

I concur,youve summed up both drugs & Watts just fine.Im actually pretty much in awe of Watts & his life,especially considering the personal history & social environment he had to deal with.I just think it was a genuine tragedy that he couldnt deal with the selfhate that drove his alchoholism.Hed got as far as being able to admit it, "I dont like myself when Im sober",but couldnt address it.Everyone demanded that he be this flawless guru,& supporting his family came to depend on that role,He must have been very isolated Its quite saddening,the way we can enthusiastically dehumanise someone by putting them on a pedestal.Still,he was a crucial catalyst,a remarkable trailblazer,and I cant say the same for myself Regards,Cloud. I think I should apologise for my pedantic obsessions here Cam I certainly seem to have got off topic I did have a dream enlightenment about 5 years ago,but unlike you,I wasnt really able to bring it into the waking state & its bugged me ever since So Ill just stew in my own envy for a while longer Regards,Cloud.

Im really getting worked up over this topic,arent I? Sorry,perhaps its just the excess of chocolate

Got to admit though that theres nothing original in my definition of Enlightenment.Im more interested ,in this context,of a possible interptretation of 'Immortality'.It occurs too frequently in Daoism to be a mere mistranslation.Not an Alchemical practitioner myself(my 2 attempts to implement Yoganis Spinal Pranayama got too intense ),but Im interested to see if all this Internal jiggery-pokery sets up a particular disposition in the practitioner that Enlightenment then accelerates or fulfills in some way.When an Alchemist "gets" Enlightened (I know thats crude,but stay with me),would their post-enlightenment behaviour and capacities be DISTINCTLY different than an Enlightened accountant,fishmonger,renunciate ascetic,musician,chiroprctor... etc? Regards,Cloud

Awww shucks