cloud recluse

"Osho" ( Mohan Chandra Rajneesh) didnt threaten shit ! In his actions,he turned out totally pro-establishment, but pissed off that he didnt have political power himself. He was the self-professed"Rich mans guru", & ended up repackaging western consumerism in a pseudo-'tantric' con game. He upset a few Christian conservatives ( like thats hard ) & intimidated the elderly residents of a small Oregon town. When he started in India, he was initially radical,in order to get attention . But there wasnt enough money in it, & he desperately wanted to be the fascistic Hindu 'God-Man ' that he claimed to despise. He died a miserable, fearful bitter creature. Do you really want to be like him ( I dont know how seriously you meant that ). He wasnt just indulgent, he became downright venemous! No one reasonably expects Gurus to be perfect, but they should at least be creative in their actual life, not actively poisinous! But study him by all means,but study his actual life as well as his clever writings. As a particular exercise, its good to pick the point in his advice where it croses over from recommending a healthy flexibility into a subtle destabilising of your personal judgement & individual worth. Im serious, he is a very useful & illuminating study, especially in how intial peak kundalini experiences dont guarantee ongoing psychological intergration. In Mohans case,he became very malicious, callous & destructive. In that respect, check out James S. Gordons THE GOLDEN GURU, if its still in print. Regards,Cloud

No,youre pretty much right on the ball there. You just forgot to add the bodycount .

The Full Moon make me restless. Im not trying to say anything romantic or exotic here,it just pisses me off. I CANNOT sleep under these conditions. Thank god for a bedside lamp & a well stocked library !

Not having been here for a while, it was a saddening surprise to hear this. I must confess I was always too 'shy' to enter into conversation with Father Paul,as his writing made me feel immediately out of my depth ( I mean this in a totally complimentary way).The impression he gave me was of one allready living what I am only barely beginning to approach. At the very least he was a damn good Daoist Poet ! Sincere Regards,Cloud

OK, you are definetely more isolated than me The feeling is mutual Its seems quite a while since Ive made any decent contribution here.Hoping warmer weather will bring a bit of inspiration. Regards,Cloud

Aaawww,Shucks Sean,its always good to plug in here,but I havent felt that Ive had much to contribute lately. But Spring is sputtering into life downunder & Im feeling a little less "Reclusive" Seriously though, last I looked Adya was bypassing Melbourne, so I miss out this year You yanks are all so spoiled I take it youve not checked him out before then ? Im all ears for any impressions you garner Regards,Cloud.

DMT can be extracted from a large number of different common plant sources in Australia,nothing thats particularly hard to find. The actual extraction process can be another matter though.

Call it morbid curiosity , but I just watched all 3 clips & read the Bio. The whole thing is described as a deliberate "zen master schtick" that is also supposed to be an actual motivational tool, or something like that. He seems to be going for a deliberately over-the-top image to get a message across Anyone else watch the whole thing ?

In Australia, its a call hollered out when wandering through bushland, a sort of "Is anybody out there ?". Loud & drawnout,bit shorter at the end. " Kooooooo-e!" Something like that.

Chuckle OK,Ill tell you WHAT is asking,sort of A motive is asking. Thats whats asking. A motive that wants some face-to-face contact, some kind of'frission.' I probably dont have the travel time to see Adya this year ( and OH how I could bitch & moan about THAT ), so Im wondering about the locals .Downunder Daoists can sometimes miss out on the 'Big Names '.Specially when youre flat broke with work committments that preclude much travel. So this motive just wants itself some juice Regards,Cloud

Adyashanti- Im more than willing to gamble that hes the real deal. He leads the pack for clarifying the Enlightenment idea for me,putting the whole thing in perspective. As the intellect still seems to be an important area of practice for me, thats been crucial. And his style of meditation is one Im always returning to. When in doubt,I sit "Adya-style" My Dad-for teaching impeccable ethics without ever discussing the topic (Just as well, coz our actual discussions just lead to arguments ).Sorry guys,hes not taking students though Our lineage is strictly Dynastic Yogani- for clarity & accessibilty of presentation,he gets an A+ I really love him as a "nuts & bolts" guy with a great big Bhakti going on.Groovy combination. Alan Clements - for an Enlightenment concept that isnt cowardly, & for not being pissed off when I crumpled into a sobbing heap in his workshop.Good sense of humour . Assorted representatives of the Animal Kingdom,for inspirational levels of coolness.The Flora get a big look in as well. Regards,Cloud

A Sailor Bob fan. Interesting. Being stuck in Melbourne, it looks like I cant get to the Adyashanti Satsangs this year , & was starting to wonder what the virtues of this Bob charachter might be . So what makes you a "groupie" ? Have you actually checked the guy out ? Regards, Cloud

The mother of a close freind of mine was heavily involved with them for a while,& taked my freind into attending one of their courses. Quite frankly,I do consider them a cult in that they undermine critical faculties & use hypnotic techniques not acknowledged to be such. What their intentions are is another matter. But what they offer is a hotchpotch of ill-understood trance techniques clumsily applied, without full understanding of what they are doing. No matter how sincere they may be, their erratic hit & miss approach has been known to set of psychotic episodes in the past,which the 'trainers ' then refuse to take any responsibility for, "You created this experince yourself" blah blah blah. They are BIG on money,& selling "advanced' courses that are just more trance sessions. People get sort of addicted ,for want of a better word, to a "Weekend Workshop " high. They are not actually advancing in any real way,just becoming more responsive to hypnotic triggers. All the good that they can sell to you, you can get yourself more reliably & cheaply by practicing self-hypnosis,though you mightnt get the potent group reinforcement they offer. I cant remember the author, but check out OUTRAGEOUS BETRAYAL, its about the founder Werner Erhard. Regards,Cloud

At last, I finally get the respect I have desired. My manifestation skills are truly awe inspiring Regards,Cloud Thanx Pero. So,is it not possible that a Deva, or something similiar, could 'look' into our realm from its own perspective, & give us some well intentioned but somewhat inaccurate advice ? If all it experences is pleasure & instant gratification, could it not erroneously try & translate that into our terms with a simplistic "All is Manifestation" kind of message ? Regards,Cloud

Whadya mean "little". My head is HUGE & bloated beyond all proportion !!!

I have been casually wondering if 'The Secret' & things of its ilk represent a kind of psychic confusion. While I have no problems with there being a Law of Attraction that can be succesfully employed by an individual,I dont see it as being the ONLY influence on events,& to think it is such strikes me as a colossal ego-trip at best. Its fairly evident that there are other factors independent of our wishes that make the world around us, though thats a hard lesson for children everywhere to learn. But it occured to me that that doesnt necessarily mean that "Abraham" or whatever is either non-existent or lying. Perhaps Abraham is just confused! From what I vaguely remember of the Buddhist Realms ,isnt there something like the God/Titan Realm,where you really do get youre desires instantly manifest,as per The Secret ? Is it not also true that the Titans/Gods arent necessarily enlightened or wise,just powerful in their Realm? Or something like that ? Couldnt Abraham just be another dodgy channelled entity that doesnt really understand the functioning of the Human Realm ? Not necessarily deceptive or invented, just mistaken, confusing its conditions for ours ? Ill apologise if Im a bit vague on my details ( I do consider The Secret to be a fairly 3rd rate peice of work ) ,but do you see what Im getting at ? Just speculatin' Regards,Cloud

"Who are you & how did you get into my house ?" is one I seem to get asked a lot . Does this mean Im bad ?

MY GOD . The things you kids have been up to since Ive been away !! Just got another chance to log on,checked out this thread, & now Im overcome with pretend mock-horror All this raunchy chatter,you young whipper-snappers Seriously though, MichelleD, I make no claim as to understanding your real intentions on this thread. But as I live half a world away & am probabaly twice your age, you can be assured this isnt some kind of pickup line ( I dont see myself travelling to America anytime soon). You (& anybody else reading this) might be interested in a neat little book Ive just reread called THE LOVER WITHIN by Julie Henderson. Its not so much a another "Tantric" sex manual,but rather a great compiliation of 'pre-Tantric' exercises, solo or with a partner, dealing with the movement of erotic energy in the bodymind & ones psychological reactions to that. Henderson seems to emphasise getting a deep familiarity with your orgasmic energy first before trying any kind of yogic 'sublimation',& acheiving insight into ones personal psychology & motives in the process. Have any of the Bums ever read this & tried it out? I would be interested to hear peoples opinions of its usefullnesss. Michelle,wellcome to the forum,whoever you really are Regards,Cloud.

Howdy Pilgrim! Yeah,hes a bit predictable,aint he? I do want to read more of his stuff on darwinian evolution,Ive been repeatedly told its a great exposition,but beyond that (going by what Ive seen so far) hes not really coming up with much outside his area of expertise. This may sound like a cheap shot,but I would be intruiged to find out a bit about his background & why hes seems so devoted to his religion. I had a quick glance at that transcript you linked,and was once again turned off by the level of it all.I didnt actually read through to the end,coz I got a "Here we go again" feeling Does Dawkins deliberately go for the easy targets.Quinn seemed a bit average,as far as I actually read. My computer access is a bit limited right now ( Im in a nomadic phase,travelling around a bit),& once settled,I do actually want to check it out,as well as Seans links that start this thread. I dont want to become blindly knee-jerk "Anti-Dawkins". But I really dont feel Ive been overly unfair to him so far. But what I have done,is pick up (at a discount ) a book titled DEEPER THAN DARWIN, by John F, Haught. Looks very interesting.While fully supporting Darwinian evolution as good science,it then questions how deep into reality the scientific can ever actually take us. It seems to be a more sophisticated response to Dawkins with potentially interesting observations on the nature of religious statements. My initial impression of Quinn wasnt that interesting ( but then,I didnt read the whole thing admittedly). Reagrds,the randomly generated Cloud I would have to pretty much concur with your entire post here Both Dawkins & Dennett are authors Ive wanted to read in far more depth than my preliminary skimming,for their expertise in their areas. But their refusal of even the possibilty of a greater depth in inquiry I do find REALLY tiresome.But that probably says more about my own limitations than anyone elses. Thats not 'quirky' at all.You just sound like a Theist that isnt driven by fear.

Havent had time to follow up on Seans links here,but I have seen Dawkins in debate with others & Ive got to say I have found him predictably flawed. Now,my science-head freinds do asure me that as an expositor of ultra-orthodox neo-darwinian biology,Dawkins is unparraleled,& a highly recommended read. But then he tries to get philosophical,& his arguments become crude rehashes of some tired old lines. Now I can see that Dawkins suffers from some quite justifiable exasperation over some matters.Eg,Creationists forcing their crappy,ignorant pseudo-science onto educational institutions.Very depressing,very tedious & very disturbing all at once. But then he himself takes up the banner of Fundamentalist Atheism,& seeks to purge the world of blasphemers!Not violently,I admit,but with 'argument' that is quite weak,& verging on mere insult. I suppose this is the one thing that gets me,the failure to acknowledge Atheism as a trans-empirical metaphysical commentary,a Leap-Of-Faith !!! Its a tired old blunder. Now I have NO PROBLEM with Atheists who acknowledge their position as a Faith,as a subjective leap into comentary on the unknown.But Dawkins muddleheadedness on this becomes quite boring. Then theres the equally crude 'history' of religion,& the alleged higher morality of science.His depictions here are crude generalities that mask the real sources of human evil,those capacities that will use ANY ideology to justify themselves. Im actually running out of steam writing this,as Dawkins really becomes irrelevant outside of Biology.Perhaps he should just stick to what he was trained in,or at least study the philosophy & history of science a bit first. And perhaps I will check out those links soon Regards,Cloud.

[quote name='freeform' date='Feb 27 2007, 03:13 AM' post='26476' Manifestation happens on the middle dan tien level - with upper and lower dan tiens providing the inspiration and the grounding necessary for it to 'happen'. But the western constitution is very much top heavy, with much of the energy stuck in the head - manifesting from this state brings about more illusion and more detachment from 'reality'. Freeform,I really like your take on manifestation here ( By the way,I still stand by my own criticisms of The Secret in that original thread 8 months or so ago,though with less angry language ).I was wondering if you could expand on your point here a bit Regards,Cloud Now THESE are some pertinent questions !!! Try googling "Shaking Riches Out of the Cosmos" for an intersting article of the behind the scene politics of the movie

Wayfarer' Greetings from my seclusion Just wondered,what do you think of this explanation of the use of the Yi (or any other 'random' system ) for divination... "We could sum up divination by saying that its what we do when we conjure for an omen.. ...it would seem reasonable to search out an omen to show us the power flows active at the moment.But omens only come when they want to,especially since they need a certain amount of energy to cause the natural world to spawn an articulate event...So instead of waiting for and hoping to get enough energy to move the natural world to action, we provide an artificial world that is far more sensitive to the weaker tensions we have available to move it,and this artificial world is the medium of divination.... We assume that the psychic stress carried by our question is sufficient to sway the feather of chance in such a way that the card or coins produce a meaningful answer..... The very act of asking the first time discharges the energy that gives the question its tension,and so removes the force that can move the oracle in a meaningful way." -SHAPING FORMLESS FIRE by Stephen Mace,pp25-27. Its probably ultimately a 'subjective' perception in the end,but I dont find that the criticisms of the divinatory use of the Yi really stick. The "You can fit any situation into any Hexagram" does NOT hold for me.In my first attempt at serious use.loooongg ago when I was a mere adolescent,I misread the instructions & constructed the hexagram from the top down! This gave me a reading that made NO sense whatsoever,& led me to the conclusion that it doesnt work & was a waste of time. Anyhow,if I had read it properly,the actual hexagram being indicated was a stern warning of immanent disaster due to my complacence,& I better open my eyes.And it was spot on.I went back to the Yi after the unfortunate events unfolded,realised my error when rereading the instructions,& then located the actaul hexagram I should have read the first time around.It is no exagerration to say it would have saved me a great deal of suffering. The next usual one,it should give consistent answers on the same subject in a small time frame,doesnt take into accoumt that the average persons energy will be discharged in the first consultation,& will so lose its divinatory power.But more importatntly,the potent persons energy will not be so redaily discharged,& they WILL get essntially the same answer with repeated consultations in a short time-frame!! But I suppose you have to be there to see that one (as I have,that not with my own consultations),otherwise its just another shaggy-shoggoth story. Anyhow,I am VERY sympathetic to the right use of random divination,of deliberately building a hypersensitive artificial 'world' that can them be moved by the energy built up in the tension of your question.But it must be realised that consistent results require it to be a serious conjuration. Just wanted to throw that one at you Regards,Cloud

Well,I must confess to you that I fully intend to steal your summary & present it as my own

Yoda,wasnt it you somewhere that summarised Krishnas message to Arjuna as "KILL EM ALL,LET GOD SORT EM OUT" . Im sure it was you,you devilish feind Regards,Cloud

Awwww shucks Thankyu VERY much for this response,& no,I have NOT lost interest.Actually,Im taking off to the seaside for a few weeks with lots of alone time I figure this wil be most soothing. Unfortunately, I wont have internet access for that time,bit I hope to have something positive to report when I get back. Regards,Cloud