Oolong Rabbit

I haven't been practicing for very long either, but I often have trouble getting the left going as well. Sometimes I just bring the right to a stop, and then lift the left ankle up as high as I can and wait. It will usually start going. I also agree with you on that no 2 sessions are the same. I had more "stuff" happening the first time I practiced, but this seems to decrease everytime I practice. The last time I did it, my mind was closer to being empty, and the time seemed to fly by very fast. Oddly I don't seem to be receiving any "bliss" feelings, nor do I get the urge to pull my head back like many others. Maybe I just have not been practicing it long enough. P.S. I tend to prefer to practice with my eyes closed as well.

Come on guys, let's follow master Aiwei's example: The vows of the tea drunk rabbit: * I vow not to eat brussel sprouts Hey it's a start!

For what it's worth, this had a profound influence on me in university and was partially what led me to major in philosophy. This could just as easily have been written by a taoist or buddhist master, and Plato's "Good" isn't all that far from the Eastern concept of "Tao". For the lazy taoist, here's a pretty neat video representation with commentary: (or alternatively, the blissed out Cam version Plato: The Allegory of the Cave, from The Republic Is a resident of the cave (a prisoner, as it were) likely to want to make the ascent to the outer world? Why or why not? What does the sun symbolize in the allegory? And now, I said, let me show in a figure how far our nature is enlightened or unenlightened:--Behold! human beings living in an underground den, which has a mouth open towards the light and reaching all along the den; here they have been from their childhood, and have their legs and necks chained so that they cannot move, and can only see before them, being prevented by the chains from turning round their heads. Above and behind them a fire is blazing at a distance, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way; and you will see, if you look, a low wall built along the way, like the screen which marionette players have in front of them, over which they show the puppets. I see. And do you see, I said, men passing along the wall carrying all sorts of vessels, and statues and figures of animals made of wood and stone and various materials, which appear over the wall? Some of them are talking, others silent. You have shown me a strange image, and they are strange prisoners. Like ourselves, I replied; and they see only their own shadows, or the shadows of one another, which the fire throws on the opposite wall of the cave? True, he said; how could they see anything but the shadows if they were never allowed to move their heads? And of the objects which are being carried in like manner they would only see the shadows? Yes, he said. And if they were able to converse with one another, would they not suppose that they were naming what was actually before them? Very true. And suppose further that the prison had an echo which came from the other side, would they not be sure to fancy when one of the passers-by spoke that the voice which they heard came from the passing shadow? No question, he replied. To them, I said, the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images. That is certain. And now look again, and see what will naturally follow if the prisoners are released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision,--what will be his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the objects as they pass and requiring him to name them,--will he not be perplexed? Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the objects which are now shown to him? Far truer. And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain in his eyes which will make him turn away to take refuge in the objects of vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than the things which are now being shown to him? True, he said. And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent, and held fast until he is forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities. Not all in a moment, he said. He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day? Certainly. Last of all he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is. Certainly. He will then proceed to argue that this is he who gives the season and the years, and is the guardian of all that is in the visible world, and in a certain way the cause of all things which he and his fellows have been accustomed to behold? Clearly, he said, he would first see the sun and then reason about him. And when he remembered his old habitation, and the wisdom of the den and his fellow-prisoners, do you not suppose that he would felicitate himself on the change, and pity them? Certainly, he would. And if they were in the habit of conferring honors among themselves on those who were quickest to observe the passing shadows and to remark which of them went before, and which followed after, and which were together; and who were therefore best able to draw conclusions as to the future, do you think that he would care for such honors and glories, or envy the possessors of them? Would he not say with Homer, Better to be the poor servant of a poor master, and to endure anything, rather than think as they do and live after their manner? (1) Yes, he said, I think that he would rather suffer anything than entertain these false notions and live in this miserable manner. Imagine once more, I said, such a one coming suddenly out of the sun to be replaced in his old situation; would he not be certain to have his eyes full of darkness? To be sure, he said. And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the den, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable), would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; (2)and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death. (3) No question, he said. This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed--whether rightly or wrongly God knows. But whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, Here Plato describes his notion of God in a way that was influence profoundly Christian theologians. and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he would act rationally either in public or private life must have his eye fixed. I agree, he said, as far as I am able to understand you. Moreover, I said, you must not wonder that those who attain to this beatific vision are unwilling to descend to human affairs; for their souls are ever hastening into the upper world where they desire to dwell; which desire of theirs is very natural, if our allegory may be trusted. Yes, very natural. And is there anything surprising in one who passes from divine contemplations to the evil state of man, misbehaving himself in a ridiculous manner; if, while his eyes are blinking and before he has become accustomed to the surrounding darkness, he is compelled to fight in courts of law, or in other places, about the images or the shadows of images of justice, and is endeavoring to meet the conception of those who have never yet seen absolute justice? Anything but surprising, he replied. Any one who has common sense will remember that the bewilderments of the eyes are of two kinds, and arise from two causes, either from coming out of the light or from going into the light, which is true of the mind's eye; and he who remembers this when he sees any one whose vision is perplexed and weak, will not be too ready to laugh; he will first ask whether that soul of man has come out of the brighter life, and is unable to see because unaccustomed to the dark, or having turned from darkness to the day is dazzled by excess of light. And he will count the one happy in his condition and state of being, and he will pity the other; or, if he have a mind to laugh at the soul which comes from below into the light, there will be more reason in this than in the laugh which greets him who returns from above out of the light into the den. That, he said, is a very just distinction. But then, if I am right, certain professors of education must be wrong when they say that they can put a knowledge into the soul which was not there before, like sight into blind eyes. They undoubtedly say this, he replied. Whereas our argument shows that the power and capacity of learning exists in the soul already; and that just as the eye was unable to turn from darkness to light without the whole body, so too the instrument of knowledge can only by the movement of the whole soul be turned from the world of becoming into that of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being and of the brightest and best of being, or in other words, of the good. Translated by Benjamin Jowett http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_...er_1/plato.html

Liu Hung Chieh Hmmm where do I start? Well, let me play Devil's advocate here for a moment. If I am reading you correctly, you are saying Liu Hung Chieh cannot denounce homsexuality because he never indulged in it. By that same rational one cannot denounce murder because they have never killed someone! This is not as if Liu said to Bruce don't eat watermelons because they taste bad at left it at that. He apparently expounded on it at length and provided historical examples. I don't imagine this belief originated with Liu either. In any event, as I said I really don't care what people do behind closed, and I think you are missing my point. When Liu offered to teach BKF, BKF took the vows that Liu laid forth. BKF and Liu entered into a major karmic contract. It would be very very bad for BKF to break that agreement IMHO. FWIW, you don't need a PHD to talk about subjects but if you want the "establishment" to take you seriously, then you have to play by their rules. Not saying I agree with it, but that's just the way it is. I guess I must be a repressed homosexual then! Talking about Tax cuts for the rich also makes me uncomfortable. I guess I must also be a repressed Republican. Again you missed my point Jane. My point is simply that it will turn into one of those threads where everybody has an opinion, and tempers start flaring up. It just becomes tiresome, a waste of energy and mentally draining. And in the end for everyone's efforts, nobody's opinions really changes. P.S. I still love you Janie

Hi Jane, I really wish that this thread had never been started as I don't really see anything positive coming out of it. Everyone has strong beliefs, and I don't feel anybody will be swayed one way or the other. I also regret posting that quote from the Falun Dafa leader Li Hongzi, as I do not even subscribe to their beliefs. My point in posting it was that many masters seem to frown heavily upon homosexuality. Li Hongzi's opinion is an extreme. Personally, I don't really care what anyone does behind closed doors as long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. But that having been said, I disagree that Bruce should break course from his master. If an extremely high level masters like Liu Hung Chieh took so much effort expounding on an issue, then it should not be taken lightly. Furthermore, if Bruce turned his back on an oath he took just because his master passed away, I would lose a lot of respect for Bruce. Brgds!

I am looking into flights, and trying to figure out how to get an "okay" on this. I may work the christmas present angle even though I will be paying myself . It may also fall during a time I have an annual conference for work, so crossing my fingers. Do you have a location in mind, and if so which airport and how far from it. Thx.

How about this for a slogan: "Someone I know reached enlightenment and all they brought back was this crumby shirt!"

For the record I am not a member of Falun Gong. I posted the comment simply as another viewpoint on the topic. I did a little research on them and there certainly seems to be a lot of propaganda on both sides. That having been said, Lin hit the nail on the head when he said that they tried to mix politics with spirituality which usually has disastrous results. They also have some rather non-convential beliefs. Apparently Li Hongzhi implants a "falun" or dharma wheel into the dantien of his disciples which is supposed to help with their cultivation. From what I have read, Lin is correct that they shun modern medical treatment and instead rely on qi gong. But if the qi gong does not work, then they willingly take on the suffering and believe it will help work off bad karma. Obviously this would not be a popular practice in the eyes of non-practicioners, especially family members. In my humble opinion, I think it starteed off as something positive and took a wrong turn somewhere (here's a good article if you are interested). Li has also made some really porposterous claims which should make anyone think twice about his motivations, although I do think the qi gong and meditation aspects are actually pretty good (you can watch the qi gong forms for free here For what it's worth, David Verdesi on Sean D's forum claims that Li Hongzhi studied with Sifu Wang Liping (Opening the Dragon Gate), but did not get very far in the system.

Lin, you are hardcore. Rock, Paper, Scissors of course .

And I thought chi balls was just another name for Jing retention

Hmmm.... looks like another fad to me. Wouldn't you be better off just doing tai chi with your hands in tiger's mouth?

Hi Lin, Since the juggernaut has been set in motion, I have yet another annoying question for the young master. I have heard it mentioned on another forum that once one reaches a certain level of cultivation that they free themselves from their karmic debt. What is your take on this? P.S. You may want to avoid this thread for a while friend, because it may become a fulltime job trying to unmuddy the waters.

Falun Dafa leader Li Hongzhi doesn't appear to be a big fan of homosexuals either: The World's Ten Evils Humans without kind thoughts Human against human as enemy. Destroying traditions Culture turning decadent. Homosexuality, licentious desires Dark heart, turning demonic. Gambling popular, drugs popular Following whims and desires. Lifting restrictions, promiscuity Leading to evil and wickedness. Sinister gangs, treacherous factions Politicians and bandits, all one family. Acting on one's own decisions, deranging the masses Against heaven, betraying Dao. Blindly believing in science Mutant mankind. Publicizing and revering violence Fond of audaciousness, competing at ruthlessness. Religions turned evil Money seekers, politicians. http://falundafa.org/book/eng/HongYinVB.htm#_Toc110877587

Damnit I MUST have that Cup!!!!!

I hope so, that's how I have been doing it. It just feels more natural for me to do it in that position than sitting on a chair.

Things are starting to add up now. I almost always seem to spiral counter-clockwiise. Should I try to guide it counter- clockwise for the first half and then clockwise for the second. Again, my body's natural instinct seems to be to go counter clockwise.

Perhaps I am not spending enough time doing the close down. I am going to increase the duration and I will let you know if this helps. As for the second edition, I think it's a great idea. There are a few errors in the book, and even though I do like the "less is more" approach I feel there are some things that should be elaborated on. I hope you guys are taking notes from the threads . P.S. I would be more interested in seeing info on Red Phoenix than 5 elements which is much more common (I actually have a very good DVD on it).

Hi Hundun, Yes I hold my tongue to the top of the palette: I am thinking about trying some of the water descending methods Jane describes, but wondering if this would be counter-productive to Kunlun. Not sure if I should throw any more variables into the mix, or just see if Kunlun works this energy out for me on its own.

Based on re-reading certain parts of Pillars of Bliss and some of the writings of Jane, Trunk and others I am a left wondering about a few things. It seem to me that Kunlun contains elements of both the fire and water paths. Actually in Max's chapter on level 3 he says the following: "Instead of our field moving up the center of the body to the head , as in level one and two, level three flows the energy from the head to the tailbone, creating a cooling effect. By cooling the ascending bliss fire with the descending element of water, we bring a purified state into the core of the body." That's great, but level 1 and level 2 each last 6 months. So it sounds like the first year of Kunlun one is packing energy into the head with no real method for the energy to descend. Jane attest that this can be dangerous. I would really appreciate hearing any opinions on this. Perhaps I am missing something.

Hi Jane! Thank you for sharing this information and your experiences with us. It seems you already have a bit of a closet following here :-). This is really great stuff, and I am starting to get motivated to dive into back into the other BK Frantzis books.

In the Pillars f Bliss Max gives a method for non-ejaculatory orgasm using a 'chi-lock' (applying pressure) to the hui yin point (million dollar point), and then pulling the energy up the spine using ten short inhalations. After 100 you then release a bit of fluid and check the color, scent and consistency of it. P.S. Trunk has a great article on his site about spinal/coccyx breathing which I believe works quite well with this.

Thanks for the advice Trunk. Can you explain how the foot roller pulls the energy down? I have been implementing your spread toe method as well. I liken it to Tiger's Mouth in the foot .

Okay I am really glad you posted this because I seem to be a having difficulty with it. Kunlun really loads up my head with energy. All day yesterday my head felt like it was full of compressed energy. Not a bad feeling really, just a slight pressure and slight tingling sensation on the top of my scalp. I had this happen before while practicing the microcosmic circulation and pulling jing up my spine. Lasted for almost 2 weeks then subsided. I am trying to guide it down to my dantien, but obviously a lot is getting stuck. Is anyone else experiencing this? Does Red Phoenix help? should I leave the energy there? If enough is pumped in will it force the crown or third eye open? I am really quite new to these practices, and a couple years ago I would have said it was BS but I am experiencing some very real phenomena.

As an aside, I brought up to my tai chi instructor that I had begun practicing Kunlun. She took me aside and warned me to be really careful and to stop immediately if I experienced dizziness etc... She said in her early days she had started practicing the grand circulation despite cautions she received about unsupervised practice. She said got an energy blockage on her back, but kept practicing thinking it would clear and it ended getting much worse. I was informed that it took her weeks of massage and tai chi to clear it out. She also said that people underestimate what practices such as tai chi are doing for them, and chase these other methods. FWIW My tai chi did feel somewhat unbalanced tonight. I still think I am going to stick with the Kunlun though as I actually enjoy it, but I am taking her cautions to heart.

I have both volumes of his Water Method on my shelf, but have not delved into them yet. I was so impressed with his book The Power of the Internal Arts that I immediately bought the water method books along with Opening the Energy Gates of your Body. The guy really seems to know his stuff. There's a gal who posts on youtube called SFJane that studied with Frantzis. You can probably get some tidbits from her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvD2rZjT5CA Edit- FYI (I just messaged her and invited Jane to the forum)