ZenStatic

Attacking your misinformation and downright lies isn't a personal attack. You keep talking about attacks and emotional responses and such, but you're the only one that seems to be getting hurt over this.

I see it has to be explained in simpler terms for you. I responded to his comment: "If I told you that I don't beleive that democracy works and that government is corrupt am I saying that I hate society? " In doing so, I gave example of the THREE things being done here that COMBINED show a hatred of religion. You haven't been merely pointing out corruption in religion, you also went so far as to call it all superstition, used only to opress by fear, etc etc. Try breaking out of your absolute point of view. 1: Are you serious? You're trying to pin part of the blame for global warming on the Catholic birth control stance? I have no love for the Catholics, but that's just beyond far-fetched. If that was the case, we could just as easily blame the lack of morals that has permeated almost all of western society since the 60's, and the huge amounts of children born out of the now commonplace casual sex that people have since they no longer wait for marraige. 2: Now, I am no biologist, so I will not claim to know the technicalities of what you're speaking of. But, I will say you're full of crap on the next part. It will in no way violate the privacy of millions of women. The only thing violated when it comes to abortion, is the right to life of that unborn child. But please, try and explain how people not wanting those lives snuffed out is an example of fear as a control mechanism? 3: While I may not agree with the Islamic governments, I don't think you have the right to tell others how to govern. For all those millions that have a problem with it, there are millions that don't as well. 4: No clue. But, I do know that Israel was created as a JEWISH state. Thus it would be logical that religion would come to play in their politics. Society is impacted in a positive and negative way by religion. Same with secularism as well. Neither one is perfect. The idea is to try and live the best life YOU can.

If you said ALL governments don't work, and ALL governments are corrupt, then proceeded to spread misinformation to try and spread that same feeling; then yes, I would say you hate government. The fact of the matter is, the calls to destroy religion are just as oppressive as the claims as have been made against religion. There are millions of people in the world that WANT to carry on in blind faith. It helps them make it through the day, and countless horrible situations. Simply put, those that don't like religion shouldn't practice it. But that doesn't give them the right to try and ruin it for others.

From the header when you first come in: "Discussion is encouraged to wander eclectically across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice, whether Buddhist, Yogic, Tantric, Judaic, Advaitic, Christian, Islamic, Shamanic, Occult, "New Age", Integral". I'm rather the opposite. I'm surprised that ralis has so many agreeing with him. Personally, I would prefer the wannabe atheist religion haters to take it somewhere else, but I don't run this place.

Ah, the wonders of it all. Scholars from another institution can provide a more objective view. That's beyond amusing; because you ignore the most basic premise to someone being a reliable source. they must know the culture about which they are even writing, otherwise it is uneducated drivel. Theory is not helpful in the realm of comparative religion. You are nto asking questions or stating facts. You are trying to further your own viewpoint at the expense of the truth. You have flat out lied a few times, and misrepresented what things are even more. And there is no reason for me to question my beliefs. I do not practice Tibetan Buddhism in any way shape or form. It is not my beliefs that you attack with lies and misinformation. But, I would be remiss in my duty as a human being to stand by and let you trash that which you obviously don't know, and let your lies run rampant. You see things as supression and such because you have no belief in the power of anything being discussed. So at the point it is recognized that you have no belief in karma, the hells, etc, why is your opinion relevant? You're not trying to educate anyone on the belief, you're only bashing that which you don't agree with. If you don't agree with something, then state that. But don't think you have the right to lie and misinform others about it. If you can't fathom the differences between eastern and western cultures, you're in severe need of some kind of therapy. All social atmospheres are oppressive to a point. Not just religions, but workplaces, schools, anything. Is religion formed purely for the reason of keeping people from attaining their potential? Thats crap. Of course you can trace your beliefs back to those feelings; because the negative feelings we have are what religion most tries to help people with.

You said truth is never in doctrine. Yet, you spout off your own doctrine. See the paradox now? And no, reason does not trump all. There has been, and always will be, things that happene that fall outside the realm of reason. We have no explanations, they don't fit into logic. But that makes them no less real. Oh, and if you truly want to be a leader as you state, don't learn anything from anyone else. Because well, then you are just following. No, its not giving allegiance to royalty. As was previosuly pointed out, you bring your western viewpoint to things, and apply that. Prostrations have many different uses in Buddhism. Sometimes it is the 3 to show veneration to the Triple Gem. Most often in Vajrayana, Tibetan, it is done to purify; body, speech, then mind; before practice or teachings are done. You are taking apples, oranges, tomatoes and grapes; throwing them all in 1 bowl, and saying how they are all the same because they are fruits. It just isn't like that. No matter how much you try, it never will be. You're using as reference a series of books published back in the 60's, which greatly operate on the ridiculous notion that all religions stemmed from the ancient egyptians. If Campbell could write those books with the knowledge out there now, I think he would have different things to say. You constantly stating that all religion is oppression is what is insulting. Especially when many of your points are made with an ignorance of facts.

Lotus Sutra Diamond Sutra _/\_ Amituofo

I don't understand where your accusation of emotional involvement comes from. The fact that I will speak out against ignorance and lies doesn't make me emotionally invested at all. If you do not think that those known to have great knowledge and share it, should be granted respect as a teacher, then I pity those that you ever decide to learn something from. And they aren't thrones. Stop the blatant lies for once. Yes, I read Campbell many years ago. He is much more learned in the Greek and Roman mythologies than anything else. I used the term bullshit, because I just stripped off the veneer you tried to put on your insult. Feel free to have your friend join and speak to us. I'm betting there are many who would love to hear his experiences. I don't care which view you might want to switch too. If you lie about it, I'll confront you on that one as well. And all of this opinion, from your perspective. Because well, it all gets very confusing. You spit out your personal doctrine here, but if we apply your doctrine to what you teach us, then we just end up in an infinite paradoxical loop. You speak as though logic is the be all end all.Do you believe logic trumps all?

You prove here for all to see what the problem is. YOU had a bad experience, and have chosen to hold a grudge against that entire religious system for it. You call the teachings superstition and bullshit; and then you proceed to call yourself offended in offering due respect to a teacher. So sad. Oh, and if you want to reference scholars for things, you should at least try those that actually are from that culture or one close to it. Campbell was far from well schooled on the east, and your buddy Lopez, obviously has issue since he loves to refer to the Theosophical society nuts so often in conjunction with Tibetan Buddhism. Oh, and for the record; a bodhisattva is NOT a "god". At least learn a bit about something before you try to tell lies about it.

Im gonna leave alone your baltant mischaracterizations of so many things in Tiebt, because were talking about spirituality, not government. Most monks, gurus, masters, etc; they don't work "real" jobs. In ANY religion. Their job is to pass on the knowledge they have to help others further down their path. The Dalai Lama never refused to continue his lineage. He has stated that he feels his office has outlived its purpose, and should not continue on after his death. And you wanted to talk about things out of context. So much of what you say is completely subjective, depending on what one would consider actual needs. Bandying about your bullshit terms and irrelevant stories in no way changes anything. There are people that believe in something. YOU will never understand why they do, how they do, and what it does for them, because you have closed your mind to anything good coming from religion. The point is, since this thread is on interfaith harmony, what do you bring to the table when all you do is spew hate of all religions?

As would be right. If you haven't put in the time and learning to receive that transmission, you shouldn't get it. And you're not a peer. Your example is analogous to my walking into Harvard and asking for a degree. "I always question and read, instead of being some true believer." That is your problem right there. Anything spiritual is to be experienced, not just read about. No matter how much you read, if you don't act on that in a sincere and true manner, you'll get nothing.

A belief that they can make ones life better.

You left off the 3rd part. That the thread about Christianity will be full of people who profess to be Christian, bu only the parts they like and throw the rest out. We can all use those steadfast examples of "faith" and "belief".

Heh, that place looks familiar

Dude. Please. Just stop. It is none of our business to ask him why he was fired from a job. At all. Some people make mistakes or do stupid things. Now, as to the rest of your post. Just stop trying to lie and pull the wool over peoples eyes here. As of now, it is technologically impossible for your accusation to be true. So really, the only one causing harm in this thread, is you.

Not to rain on your parade, but you claim its "real" bagua, and then say its very little form, mostly application. Now, from what I have learned over the years, form is where most martial arts get their power from. This is kind of like getting a great remote control car for your birthday, and taking the batteries out to play.

This is very much not true. daily, mots people breathe like crap. We breath inefficiently and shallowly with our lungs. The reason in the beginning you are taught to pay attention to your breath is to breathe from your diaphragm, which leads to better breathing and more calm. After you breathe well naturally, you move on to other things. It is but the first step on a long road.

I've sat back and patiently held my tongue regarding this whole thing for a long time. My apologies Stig, for not PM'ing you a long time ago and letting you know I would not be sending the $10 I originally decided to. I had gone back and started reading many of gossamers posts again to see if I could get a grasp on the situation at hand. And frankly, it made me feel sick. Because as much of a geek as I am, I should have noticed quite a few things a long time ago. While I won't go so far to say that most of the computer issue you talk about are impossible to cause in the way you say they are, I will say that the probabilities are high in the billions. you obviously have little grasp for many things when it comes to computers, because the things you are saying this man has done, not even the most malicious hackers that spend all their time writing code have managed. While in your head there may very well be something going on, I think that perpetuating the lie to this community is despicable.

http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/news-...2809d8504e.html Amituofo _/|\_

What? Are you serious? A thread about the passing of one of the great Chan masters of the past few generations, and you talk about some quack trying to hawk bullshit and linking to a "karma calculator"? Has all common senes been thrown out the window here nowadays?

Great article. But don't be surprised by the number of responses you get justifying killing another animal for "needed" food.

I'm still down to meet up, but I won't go to a bar. So if people want to go and have drinks, I'll just skip this one.

I, for one, find this all rather disturbing. All the pontificating and chest thumping that goes on around here about people being open-minded and such is proven by threads like these to be bullshit. If he was making massive amounts of posts about a topic that people didn't disagree with so much, like kunlun or qigong, nothing would be being said. Instead, in numerous threads on this forum, people have repeatedly insulted the man and his beliefs; and in many cases been cheered on by long time members. This site very much bills itself as a barely contained free for all. I know that at certain points, I took advantage of that myself, and was overly rude in some posts I made. What I have seen though, is that the more I try to not be like that in my speech, the more I have noticed the venom and animosity in others posts.

You know, most of the people in this thread are pathetic. You are coming here to this forum to try and learn and better yourself, and now act like bratty children. The only rudeness around here, is these people suddenly popping out of the woodwork bitching about MTS's posts. If you're that damn lazy you cant click the buttons to see older threads, what are you doing here? In the past month or so, the true colors of most of the people on this forum have come out. You're not here to better yourself, but only to escape the demons of your own past. You only like the topic as long as it doesn't look to much like the religion you hate.

Lets try this whole get together in Chinatown for lunch thing again. Last time it just kinda fell off to nothing, I thought maybe if we have a decent bit of advance warning, it might be easier. So, I was thinking some time right after the turn of the year would be good, sorta ring in the new year in a good way.