Fireblood

The model and mathematical description for atoms fits the behaviour of reality. This has been proven by scientists around the world and recreated many times in many experiments. Many realities are based on the atomic model including the unfortunately real atom bomb and nuclear power stations. A big list of scientists. And another big list of scientists agree with them after doing loads of experiments. You can always google for the names. Every day. In fact I experience atoms on a daily basis, all day and even at night when I'm breathing air. We do not need to see something to believe in it. I have never stepped on the US mainland, nor seen it off film but I still believe it is very real due to the effects that emanate from it. A nice way of putting it would be, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" in the words of Robert K. Dick (fiction author). Maybe this, "Reality is that which is commonly experienced and cannot be denied by logic or that which cannot be directly experienced but can be logically inferred from that which is experienced in common and undenied by logic." I think this going to get interesting

Asian guy in UK, his name is Kal Raymon.

Sorry if my last post was a little 'pushy', (no pun intended). BTW I have not trained with Vu or the dog brothers, but my (previous) instructor has trained with both. Staging stuff is useful sometimes to understand what the energy issued feels like. there's loads of push hands videos on utube, yahoo and google, infact on all the video search engines.

Push hands is used to develop different skills. Mainly listening skill: To read your opponent, feel where his/her movement is going so you can be there first. It also develops other skills including issuing energy or fa-jing as some call it. The thing with TCC, is that many people teach the form, some from amongst them teach it correctly, fewer than that know why they do the form and least of all, a few know how to fight using the principles of TCC. Pushing the opponent is over-rated these days. It's all ok when someone is acting in accordance to the push hands drill techniques but pushing is rarely used in a real fight situation. But you do/can use the different energies/skills learnt in push hands drills in a combat situation. I used to fight full contact kali/eskrima (stick & knife) with minimum padding. We also used to fight full contact and empty handed. Our instructor kind of was of the philosophy of the Dog Brothers and Paul Vunak etc...(I practiced TCC at that time too). http://www.dogbrothers.com/ http://www.fighting.net/ Try a little experiment. See if you can find any full contact fights between a Tai Chi Teacher and a boxer or Thai boxer etc on the web (google video etc), then see if you can find a fight between, a karateka, Thai boxer, Judo, JKD, BJJ etc etc... You won't find any Tai Chi fighters. You will find videos of mostly bogus TCC defense techniques. I'm not saying that there are none. I know of two schools in the UK who fight: http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/ Wudang Tai Chi Chuan - Kind of an ofshoot from Wu style. http://www.zhong-ding.com/articles.htm Zhong Ding Tai Chi Chuan - Cheng Man Ching Style. Both these schools had masters that had fights all the time. They still do. Zhong Ding mainly in Malaysia and Singapore. Wudang's current UK head is Dan Docherty, this guy has proven himself in full contact fights using TCC principles. Why is fighting important? TCC is a martial art, first and foremost. If you cannot fight using it, you have not learnt TCC. Like a boxer who cannot box etc... Old Yang style? Nearly every Yang stylist claims that their style is 'Old Yang' Style because it was regarded as lethal and a very combat orientated style. Yet most of them cannot fight! Many Yang Chengfu stylists claim that there is no 'Old Yang' style otherwise Yang Chengfu would have imparted the traditions to his students. If you want to see some real push hands, take a look at this from a real lineage master of the Chen style: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...29&q=push+hands This one's more martial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znVWJ4PmURw...ch=push%20hands Or a student of Yang Cheng Fu: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...cheng+man+ching See the difference in the level of relaxation between the Cheng Man Ching, Wang Xian and the video of the guy that Sean posted. Anyhow thats my two cents. I'll have my TCC research page up soon, watch http://www.tfbb.org for details.

Thanks Sean I'll try that.

Thirteen chapters is a treasure trove of information, it contains Man Chings personal experience and interpretations of the classics. It's cheap too so worth buying for all the info it contains. Dai Long Bang was passing on secrets of his style referring specifically to the integration of the dantien training for fighting purposes. You can meditate and do the taoist 'immortal' thing but it won't help you when you're getting your head kicked in. Training the dantien with regards to the martial aspect involves heavy practice of the forms of your chosen internal art. I'm researching this at the moment and shall be producing a website with my experiences of "making tai chi chuan work how it's supposed to". Lot's of info on the net, it needs filtering though! Google it! The new site address shall be: http://www.tfbb.org It's not ready yet btw.

I also belive that I am connected to everything in some way, mainly through atomic interaction and chains of cuase and effect. I also agree that we are more than just a physical body no doubt. Perhaps I stressed science too much. Maybe what I was trying to express was basing beliefs on reality or experience of reality and logical inferences from that. Anyhow thanks for the input, it's always good to expand your mind.

The Governing vessel is like a mop handle for me at the moment. It's it's made of wood and no electricity can pass through it! Seriously it's dead as a door knob. It's my sticking point at the moment. The Conception veesel is great, all the dantiens are glowing if I work on them, and pretty much anything in between on the front. But anything after the Jing Gong like CV1 all the way to the GV24, I cannot feel at all. The strange thing is my feet are open to the flow, great glowing heat at the K1, toes ankles even. My hands are good too and the flow to them and to my feet can be done at will. BUT the GV is dead. I've tried all manner of stretches, spinal alignment. Tai Chi Chuan really hepled me liven my hands and feet but not GV. I know I'm missing something really basic but what? (I could probably do what I done before but it was dangerous to my health. Described in one of my earlier posts). I'd greatly appreciate any advice from the seasoned taobums?

Strange that quite a few people have mentioned that lately. I was reading the Thirteen Chapters by Cheng Man Ching and he more or less sums it up as the same thing. He goes through the whole Kan and Li process, a simplified explanation, and indicates that it is a natural process that occurs after a "long time" of "keeping the mind and heart at the dantien".

We all have our opinions my friend. I am basically saying that I'll base my reality/beliefs on what information is available to me at the time. Anything which is substantiated currently, be it by science or logic (more common sense than pure logic) is what I'll use. Anything which is conjecture is just that, conjecture, pure and simple. Anyhow what one man/woman believes to be truth, another may see as nonsense. As for the questions then I'm sure you know what I meant, I was drawing parallels: i.e How did I get here? Would translate to a bigger question, something like: Where did the human race come from? As sentient beings who can communicate using complex language and technology, way surpassing all other forms of life. I suppose many people would give answers based on conditioning but that's most people for you. What's the relevant difference between "what we know" and what we have "discovered"? Surely knowledge is a result of discovery? And if we cannot base our beliefs/reality on knowledge then what can we base it upon? When we discover and consequently gain knowledge of something infinite, I'll accept that, but until we do, it's all conjecture to me. I don't think that the universe is a hologram! And I don't think you're God but thats my personal belief which I came to based on my current knowledge and experience. And a hologram is crafted in time which makes it finite as is the material that it is crafted onto. But then again, like I said, one mans/womans belief is nonsense for another.

Trunk, Try eating cold foods. I don't mean out of the freezer, I mean foods that slow the yang/hot chi. At the moment your eating hot foods: "gou qi zi (lychi berries), he shou wu, almonds, dang shen (Codonopsis) - all soaked overnight carrot" (Not sure about the lychi berries but probably hot). Also according to the same system, most green foods are cold and not hot! Try oranges, apples, pears, tomatoes. This is from the Unani food system. I find it fairly accurate with relation to the effect that the food has on my body. A while back I was on pure raw food, I managed to hold back my kidney failure for a few years, but then I had to revert to normal diet again Just search google for "Unani". It's an Indian/Arab food classification system, Foods are hot and cold to varying degrees.

I don't usually go into discussions on religion. but for me this is (at least part of) the reality. You wake up in a dark room, you don't remember anything. The first questions you may ask are: 1. Who am I? 2. Where am I? 3. How did I get here? / Who put me here? 4. How do I get out? Is there an out? If life is a search for truth, then it is the answer to those questions. Anyhow, for me this is pure raw reality, it has to be tackled head on, on a daily basis. But I don't personally think that everything is God. Everything we know in the universe is limited and finite, everything we have seen so far at least. I'm mean from a scientific/logical perspective. I only look at alchemical practices as a biological phenomenon yet to be pinned down / scientifically described. I know it's a very dry attitude! But I do believe in God. Anyhow that's moi.

I want the following: Health Strength Groundedness Skill Stability both physical and mental Fluid movement I'm integrating a lot of different practices to reach the goal of... How do I put this in words? The following words all rolled into one: Fluidity of movement When it happens it all happens all by itself If I was was shooting an arrow from a bow, it would hit the mark and leave the bow all by itself If I had a fight (defense) I wouldn't need to think about anything If I was "free running" I would run and jump over anything in my way fluidly If I was knocked to the floor I would fluidly roll back up onto my legs To naturally do anything naturally? (Does that even make sense)? Massive positive mental attitude... Be a beacon to help others? A whole lot more... BODY & MIND & ENVIRONMENT INTEGRATION I can't really explain it in words yet...There's something missing, we all have a massive potential, physically and mentally and we've been conditioned to be limited, I choose to break the barriers, to go beyond 'normality'. I don't know, perhaps I'm losing the plot LOL. anyhow there you have it. Just wanted to emphasise the following words in my last post: To reach the aforementioned goal (or goals?).

I'm not too fussed about taking blows to the body. I'm more interested in the actual process and the tendon neigong. I have checked your site about the "packing" in IS1. Won't be starting for a while yet anyhow. I am going to start a new website on integrating loads of stuff into a short tai chi chuan form, too many people are hiding information, so I'm going to share all mine. Similar to yours I hope, something between a blog and a full site!

Hey thanks. That's a great alternative. I'll look into it, definately. But I like my Tai Chi so I probably won't stop that.

Trunk, you never cease to amaze me. "Next level shit", as my younger brother would say. I've just gone and got myself an abs wheel, but I still have a way to go with the Qigong yet.

Morris came across as a nice guy. I used to keep in regular contact with him about four years ago. We sharply disagreed on a few points but he was very tolerant. His openess in teaching was well know. Never got to meet him in person though.

I've practiced Tai Chi Chuan for a few years now and it's only boring if someone is teaching it as a dance. If you have someone teaching you who has any idea of what they are doing then it's great, find a club that does Tai Chi Chuan full contact fighting, then you know it's the real thing. There's too much going on to be bored even for a second. There's all the external postures, keeping the head straight, sinking the elbows, shoulders and chest; keeping relaxed. Substantial and insubstantial in the feet/weight, sinking the chi to the dantien etc etc... There's just way too much going on at anyone time to be bored. Even if you've done it for years, you'll be concentrating on finer aspects of the form etc... Maybe Jian (straight sword) form, Dao (broad sword) or push hands, kwai forms, two man sparring etc... The other thing is there's too many bogus Tai Chi teachers out there.

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, so apologies in advance if it's not. About four years ago I managed to complete the MCO and opened the arm and leg routes. I have no people where I am who are into energy work except one of my friends, so we tend to experiment and mainly get all our info from books and the net. Anyhow, after opening all these routes I started to get the following symptoms every night: I was sweating a cold sweat, the energy would move around my body by itself, mainly around the abdomen and it was very hot. One day I was doing a relaxation excercise from one of Yang Jwin Ming's books, but the energy rushed from my K1 points like I never felt it before, so powerful. It went straight up the back of my legs and then up my spine into my head, I felt like drops of water then fell on my scalp ,but it was dry. After that night I couldn't sleep but the energy was different; if I shifted my attention anywhere on my body I could feel the energy rushing there really strongly, it was scary, I didn't sleep for two or three days. I stopped all my Chi Kung and just stuck to Kali martial arts for a while. In a few days it subsided. It was so intense that I have only recently started Chi Kung (four years later) and the MCO again. Now I can feel the energy in my feet at any time (almost) or feel it at the dan tien, less so in my hands at the moment. Anyhow a few days ago the energy started to go through the MCO by itself at night again, I wake up and I can feel it. Nowhere as intense as a few years ago though. By the way I lost all kidney function about a year ago (renal failure) and am on dialysis. Since I started the MCO again it has helped me feel better. I'm fairly concerned about how to progress? Any ideas for this little newbie grasshopper? Wow 3:15am, so tired...must sleep...

Pietro, I'm not trying to be arrogant but since I restarted the MCO I have started to pee a lot more, I used to go into dialysis with about 1.5l of extra fluid in my blood that they had to take off, and now they either don't take off any fluid or a little amount, like 0.5l per 24 hours or so, and I'm drinking (fluids) freely. What I need Pietro is a full regrown kidney so I don't have to dialyse any more. Sounds impossible but if there's a way, I'm going to try and find it. I had a look at Reinoud's website but it's all Dutch to me! Do you think that Bruce may be able to point me in the right direction? And if I email Reinoud in english will he understand me? Thanks again Pietro.

Pietro, Pietro, Pietro! I have studied degree level biology and I know that there is some potential for a kidney to regrow tissue but the orthodox medical community would outright dismiss such a claim as a full kidney regrowing. As for me then I'm very open minded, I've experienced such phenomenon on a smaller scale. How do I find Rainold? If this works Pietro, I'll send you a check in the post, no joke.

First thing is, thank you for the input. There's an old Zen saying that goes something like this: If you ever meet Buddah, kill him. What it means (to me), is that if you rely entirely on teachers, you may never get "there". Who taught Zhang San Feng? Who taught Lau Tzu or Zuo Lai Feng? Who taught the first one? Sure they learnt from teachers but no doubt the greatest discoveries are found through adventure and exploration, self knowledge. Anyhow, I found out how to calm the energy. One mistake I was making was running the MCO late at night, before sleeping, doh! Tai Chi Chuan and some physical exercise helps in grounding and 'spreading' the energy and generally I now just spend more time in storing it in the dan tien at the end of a session. Worst case scenario, stop doing the MCO every day and do it every other day or every two days etc. To be honest I can't stop doing the energy work. Since I started again, I have been feeling a lot better in terms of my health than before, perhaps it's a coincedence. I mean, I'm seeing physical benefits. I think I'll just take it slow and carry on. Thanks for the input I do appreciate it.

I've been into Chi Kung and other energy work for a while but always looked at everything from a biological sort of perspective, keeps me sane. So I have my own personal ideas of what the heck is really going on in there (the body). Now recently I've been reading more HT stuff. I came across all these ideas about beings been born after you complete the lesser Kan and Li, half immortal and the sorts. I'm not too keen on going Schizophrenic or anything but want to progress in my practice like I have been so far. I have always practiced for health benefits and calm mind and martial arts etc, not religion. So, I'm not sure what my questions are but here goes: I definately don't want a being inside me, is it metaphorical usage of language? The immortal being, been born etc... Can I continue my practice as I have been from a neutral religious perspective, i.e looking at it all as a biological phenomenon? I would greatly appreciate any pointers to the way forward, I really would like to keep up my progress.

Thanks. Thanks Freeform, your post was most comforting. O.K we're getting somewhere. I've always looked at chi as energy, simple as. The fact that I can't entirely define it is irrelevant, I know it's real. I know some of it's behaviours; it travels through meridians, it can be hot, it can tingle, etc etc. I don't need to be able to totally define it, I accept that. Yoda, you've thrown me totally off with the ghost stuff? Please tell I'm not going to be seeing faces or ghosts! ---------------------------------------------------------- Trunk, I've sent you an email but it's been delayed for some reason, so the postmaster says. I used to email you a few years back when you were well into your Xing Yi, you most likely won't remember, we only exchanged about ten emails or so. Nice to see you here and thanks for the link here from your website, that's how I found it (Taobums). BTW it's my avatar now...evil laugh. (Nah, not really, I just found it in the user cp, I'll get my own avatar real soon, promise). -------------------------------------------------------- Thanks again for your input everyone.

Helooo all, I got directed here from the links section in the Alchemicaltaoism website. I've been looking for a place to discuss stuff with people openly about taoist and similar energy practices. Seems like everyone on the web is trying to sell me everything! Anyhow, I'm from UK, Midlands. I'm no good at introductions, but there you go. I've always been into dynamic Chi Kung rather than sitting meditation, until one of my pals introduced me to the MCO. That changed everything. I currently practice (Cheng style, that's right not Chen) Tai Chi Chuan and have an elementary amount of experience in Kali/JKD Concepts. I had to stop doing the MCO because things started to get a little wild, especially when I tried to sleep, lol. Maybe someone here can give me some pointers after I give a detailed account of events some time. Well there you go, that's me, for now. You all seemed like such a cheerful and helpful bunch so I joined the forums. Thats it really