Ya Mu

No, you can't assume that. As far as doctors taking any test seriously, you have to realize that there are some smart doctors out there that DO practice qigong and that do send their patients to qigong healers, because they know it works. I have had several MD's in my classes, all eager to learn. RE: Explaining an instantly mended bone away with placebo. Sure you can, just as easy as explaining qigong healing. Without the protocols in place no study conclusion can be valid (from a scientific viewpoint). Dude, peace. I was simply trying to get you to understand that what you were saying was not a logically valid argument. It would be like me saying, "When you get out of high school you should take a course in logic." Although I could think you were a teenager in high school, that your posts reflected this, or I could think that a course in logic would help you, I have no way of knowing. You could be a 78 year old grandmother that knows how to levitate and was simply screwing around. I have no way of knowing what you know or do not know.

Sure I see this is a circular debate. I am just trying to get folks to see the possibility that it is NEVER about what anyone else can or can't do, but about what they can arrive at for themselves. (Just my opinion) I know Ken Sancier of the Qigong Institute. He has contributed much, probably more than anyone to the compilation of the world's scientific exploration of qi. And a true scientist as well as a great person he is. I HAVE done those tests - results are in my case files. (many years of them) But if published, case files do not present "proof" (What else was a person doing, etc.) If you wish or anyone else wishes to set up a trust fund to fund a doubly blind placebo controlled crossover study of testing of any type of patient, say osteo arthritis, broken bones, or something like that, I would be glad to participate. Let me know. But I do not need verification of credibility. Stay busy enough in clinic as it is. Want to go fishing.

Perhaps we could use this to measure the qi? I do, however, believe that one day, as we make advances in quantum mechanics, we will have measuring devices sensitive enough for these type of measurements. I enjoy your posts. By the way, how old would a person have to be to "prove" they had mastered longevity? This old(134)? OR how Happy would they have to be to "prove" they mastered happiness? This happy?

Works very well on animals. So no placebo. I explained all this in my posts above. For my opinion re-read. Lets just say we disagree on what is and what isn't phenomena. One more time, YOU have no idea what I can or can't do, you don't know me and you have never taken a class with me. AND again, all these things become self-evident to the practitioner if they understand energetics. I am trying to teach that IF YOU PRACTICE these things will become self-evident. My posting has never been anything whatsoever about "what I said" but about what I can teach another person to do for themselves. And that, if a person practices they will learn "How do you know that (insert any number of things) is so?" is useless information because they will learn the (insert any number of things) for themselves. So it ends up as what they KNOW.

It wasn't clear to me that I made it clear (huh?) that I could or couldn't do anything except I spoke about qi projection because it is done to help others. I never said I could or couldn't do the other things. I just stated many reasons to not do such things. Sorry my meaning was not clear. An understanding of energetics that one can only experience for oneself makes these things self-understood by the practitioner. It becomes self-evident to the practitioner. SHOW HIM? Another perfect example of my point in posting. SHOW HIM IS PHENOMENA with no meaning whatsoever. I don't do phenomena. Had you asked could I help a certain person I would reply that my clinic is open and they are always welcome to come see me. There you go! I notice that you are NAMED seekeroftruth. Your various posts reflect this. I have noticed they usually start a lot of stuff that gets crazy but the truth usually comes out if a person simply reads all this stuff we post while in the qi state. Practice sounds good. I like your posts.

Exactly my point. I "prove" qi projection every single day by helping others in clinic where there is NEED and have no desire to use it for such a shallow purpose as this "challenge". And yes, I have such qi projection on video and am currently involved in a project to do a video for teaching students different types of qi projection in the field of medical qigong. But anyone could easily say I paid the folks on the video and there was no "proof". I have no desire to "prove" to anyone anything about qi projection. I would rather anyone discover the experience of qi projection so that it would be self-evident as these things have meaning only when experienced by the individual. Chances are show/WOW seeking students that meet a high level teacher would not recognize said teacher because of the desire to see such phenomena as proof. Understanding of such things are not generally given to those who would use it for it's WOW factor, but after a student has shown their true nature and their dedication to the study itself. And if anyone looks at it from a historical use, they would see the fallacy of showmanship as a teaching tool. It would not "PROVE" anything. Folks tend to follow the easy pathway far more than the actual true teachers. It has been that way throughout history and still is. A prime example is this thread, a "challenge" to people who have reached a certain level in development. Rather than seeking the teacher and studying the truth, many would rather see the show. Another prime example is the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tse, and other High Level teachers. While some follow them, rather than learning about their own true self, certain followers want to see the show and never find their true self. Others wish to persecute the followers. One day we will grow up. And, if anyone is interested, the way to avoid shallow worthless teachings is simply to stop the world and tune in to the true heart. If something resonates then it probably has meaning. If it doesn't stay away from it. With all due respect you have no idea whatsoever what I can or can't do or what I have personally experienced. I am really surprised to see you attempt to make this personal as I have read some of your posts which showed significant thought.

I stated my opinion of the application of qi projection "from someone who knows how to do it". So I assume you are talking about fire starting. Do you believe that, say a person who has not been trained in the higher level aspects of energetics has a natural talent of starting fires, that he would be the person to listen to about the application of fire starting simply because he could do it? What I am saying here is that phenomena done with manipulation of qi has no place in the daily life of a person trained in higher level energetics. There should be a NEED or it is a waste. When I was young I did like phenomena, really interesting and it could "show others that didn't believe the power of qi manipulation." I quit doing phenomena a long time ago, because I finally understood the fallacy of the above statement and I finally understood that we have to assume responsibility of who we really are and the responsibility of higher level manipulation of energy.

You may want to read this book: Destiny of Souls by Michael Newton, PH.D. New case studies of life between life Read it a long time ago and it was the first book I have read that corresponded with my own experiences in many ways. The author simply lays out his case studies made over a long period of time. Most people, after they have practiced qigong for a long period of time, remember past lives. Others, such as young children, have been found to remember other lives. My experience has been that we are immortal beings who rent this body for a short period of time. If we, through time (usually many, many lives) and effort develop to a certain level, we eventually have a choice of returning here in order to help others, or to go on to a higher level of development.

I agree with what you have posted with the exception of the "yellow top and a red handle bottom". I assume this is a specific brand with which you have had good results. There are also other sandlewood incense brands that work very well. I use a high quality one made in Japan. But you are SO correct in that many of the products made for general market do not have the high vibration of quality sandlewood, so the buyer should really investigate and not just purchase just any type of sandlewood incense.

I'll certainly take your word that they are recognized milestones in certain systems. So, between a student and teacher in said system I'll say that possibly it is not a waste. But common usage is that I project qi every day in my medical qigong clinic to help people. But I have no need to start a fire with qi everyday. This would only be done as phenomena, for its WOW factor, which has no Higher Level uses.

Here is a link to the qigong database that was mentioned in a post above. Plenty of scientific studies have been done on qigong. http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/database.php

The Stillness-Movement method IS listed; but the core of what I teach does require the "lighting the fire" and "opening the gates" part by attending a workshop. I project qi to raise the energy body's vibration rate. Then the student goes home and practices Stillness-Movement based on this new level. It would take much longer if a person just started practicing from reading the book. Initially, the student would only be doing stillness and not have the higher vibrational movement if they practiced only from the book. Ha! Interesting question. The book was published several years ago. But the core of what I have learned has not changed; in fact this core is blazing brightly. Could I have worded or described everything better? Of course one can say that there are always ways to improve. What I did when I wrote the book was simply get into the "qi state" whenever I sat to write. Sometimes, even I was surprised at what came out as it was not exactly what I had been "thinking" of writing when I sat down. The book is what it is and what it was meant to be. Shon, if you feel a resonance with the book, go ahead and get it; perhaps it can help you with your journey. If you don't then save your money. If you purchase direct from me I'll refund purchase price less shipping cost if you are not satisfied. If you are asking about time of day, there are no bad times to practice. When Master Wang was asked this he replied, "I practice 24 hours a day." I would say the same thing if asked.

True, lots of folks can't recognize the truth because their preconceived filters have already kicked in. Perhaps because they are advanced enough not to cater to phenomena seekers? I agree it is not a real test; your words faux challenge are accurate. Look up the Qigong database if you want to check out the scientific studies already done on qigong. Lots of research has been done on qigong and medical qigong. BUT, The actual proof is in each practitioners experiential domain. In other words, the experiences we create for ourself and others; each person knows what he/she experiences. We have no need for phenomena - a distraction at the very least.

I've had this done to me before. It was gentle but not effective for me. The Taoist medicine is not similar; a totally different technique.

I SEE now, before I was only reading what you wrote. The reason you have felt that teachers held you back was because of who you are. Don't take this the wrong way, because what I mean is who you really are and not the body/mind that we all rent for a short period of time. You are what I call a natural. The naturals that I have seen (I have several as students) already have a deep connection with Spirit for they bring with them a lot of energy when they come to earth.) To put it another way, you can't not do qigong naturally. You probably couldn't define it before you started practicing. My advice is what you have already realized: Don't let a teacher who has no more energy than you try to sway you to a distracting path (what you said). Embrace what you are and find & fulfill your destiny. I would be willing to bet you saw spirits and into the other worlds when you were quite young but probably allowed your peers, parents, and others talk you out of this knowing by the time you were 6 or so. Just because a teacher knows more forms or can say a lot of awesome things or can do phenomena does not mean they have more energy or a better connection than you. Seek the non-linear, you will find the linear newtonian approach very dull. That said, don't let it go to your head. There is a teacher for you that can help you a great deal on your path; you just have to realize it when they appear and take advantage of it. Remember what I said about Listening. Also remember there are always Higher Levels. If you ever decide you would like to try Stillness-Movement, come to one of my workshops. At the end of the workshop decide if you liked it or not, pay the fee only if you like it. My bet is you will find it is like coming home.

I practice qigong, run a clinical qigong clinic, and teach full-time and have been doing so for a very long time. I would be glad to do it all for free if anyone wants to set me up with a trust fund so that I can live without charging a fee (really, I won't be offended). I do always guarantee satisfaction with my classes and in my clinic. I specialize in pain elimination and offer guaranteed pain relief or no fee. The small amount of funds received from classes, books and dvd's do not even begin to offset the costs. I do this simply to help others. I could really care whether anyone here buys or likes my book. But for those that resonate with it, the book can be a powerful tool of awakening, so I offer it. No teacher worth his salt says his teachings are for everyone. Folks that have inflated ego's, that are self-induced dumb as dirt and not willing to upgrade, that are too smart to believe that the brain is their worst enemy, that already know everything, that are really contrary, that are overly religious, that are new souls, that are too Taoist, that are too Buddhist, too Christian, too Zorastorian, too Athiest, that think qi can only be in the body and not projected, that have already found out who they really are and already developed the ability to part the curtain, that are not good and moral people; these are examples of people who will probably not resonate with what I teach and I believe these folks would be better off doing something else. OMG, did I just eliminate all possible students? No, I sincerely believe that there are many good people that are seeking, many good potential healers that wish to learn advanced methods to help others, and that want to raise their awareness of the energy that is responsible for everything. But all this has gotten off track with the topic of immortality. How many immortals out-of-body or in body has anyone here met? I dare say a few have. Some may have not realized it and some have.

Acupuncture can help correct the body imbalances; doesn't matter what you believe or practice. I recommend finding one NCCAOM certified if you are in the USA. What it won't do is correct imbalances brought about from continued practice of a forced cultivation system that agitates each nerve synapse in the spine. If the system that you practice doesn't do that then acupuncture, clinical qigong, massage and other methods certainly should help.

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It is admirable that you have achieved so much. But what you can't understand, until you have experienced it, is that these energetics are not the same. High-Level teachers project information based energetics that one has to experience before it could possibly make sense. For medical/clinical qigong this is extremely important. One can advance much quicker and can manipulate energy more powerfully and with a deeper understanding (in other words actually help people instead of just saying they can). For self-realization, I am sure you are correct. A teacher that projects energy could cut the time for a beginner to reach this state from up to 15-20 years to 1-5 years, though; sometimes even less, as in a few months. But self-realization is only the first part of advanced qigong. A few things: This IS the type of meditation the Japanese researchers were talking about (they had "masters"); this is not advanced qigong. Perhaps from some that claim themselves as teacher but can't really project much this is true. But absolutely NOT true from one that has reached this level. Information based High-Level energy projection is not distraction, but 100% privilege to receive. This helps a person connect to THEIR Higher-Level self and realize who they really are. Only then can they actually truly connect to the "source". But again, until one has experienced it, this can make no sense to them. Furthermore, there are ALWAYS Higher Levels. A person's energy body can always evolve. The energy projection raises the vibrational frequency of the energy body, giving said energy body access to an expanded awareness of energetics each time this projection is received. I certainly do not mean this as personal about what level you have achieved. I don't know you, but from the posts you have made I do appreciate that you HAVE reached a good level of understanding. What I teach is not for everyone. Only those that feel a resonance with it. But my understanding comes from close to 30 years of manipulating energy on a full-time basis, and with watching the evolution of many students as well as my own personal journey. Perhaps tomorrow my understanding will be different. Remember, there are ALWAYS Higher-Levels.

I have to disagree here. Emptiness meditation needs no books and no teacher. All one has to do is sit quietly. Advanced qigong is far from this type of meditation. Japanese doctors have research where they measure the brain waves of these type of meditation versus the meditative qigong practitioners. They found that both type stilled the brain waves into calmness but the qigong-style did this while also activating the creative centers of the brain. Again, with all due respect to what you personally have gained from books, until a person experiences true High Level qigong they can't possibly personally know the difference. It is not about ANYTHING a teacher says but what a teacher can help you experience and know for yourself.

QUOTE(dao zhen @ Dec 11 2008, 08:22 PM) * The above quote applies. One can lead a horse, even a 1000 of them to water but that certainly doesn't mean that they will drink. But it is the 1001st horse that does drink that can make one's heart glad. When a teacher publishes a book, they hope that it is enough information to see if it resonates with a person's energy body. If it is, then that person can be open to seek the full teachings. Yes, It is my experience is that anyone who believes they can learn advanced qigong from a book has never found a real teacher - yet. Until one can experience Higher Vibrational energetics they don't know what they are. Real easy to say all sorts of things about what one reads, but it is the self-evident things that are real. So all of us could talk about this for 1000 years and read a 1000 books and be no better for it in terms of energy cultivation. It is meeting a teacher who can project these energies and open us to them that makes the big difference; then our follow up with dedicated practice.

So True and actually frustrating. I really wonder about those that actually think they can learn advanced qigong without a teacher. Exactly! Although I don't know about the word "never" yet.

Airplanes are incubators. I always take Yin Chiao or Gan Mao Ling an hr before boarding. So the question that comes to my mind is do you consider aging a dis-ease? If so, then are you implying these advanced methods will prevent aging so we can keep these physical bodies for how long? eternity? If you have reached that level then you know about the choice. Most decide to interact with and help humanity instead of seclusion. I would think it would be very boring to have to stay here after having achieved what (any of us) are here for. In other words, we have to "die" (shed physical body) of something.

I have to agree with Seth. The sexual alchemy (which IS Taoist, by the way) method that I teach and practice is, for me, as powerful at least as any ten 3 hr meditative, internal qigong practice(s). By "working" the energies, using the male RELEASED orgasm and the female orgasm, the energies ar so powerful that the veil is lifted and you and your partner are lifted into an entirely new vibratory state. At this point it is simple to re-capture any lost energies and also add-to previous state of being. Incredibly powerful. I do, however, say that both partners should be qigong practitioners.