Ya Mu

In spite of me knowing that there was much corruption in the industry, I was floored with the mainstream news program I referenced in my first post. Do people think that all meds are approved by the FDA with rigorous testing within the organization? Most people do. The investigative team went to INDIA, where there were approved companies that audit the drug companies research then make the recommendation to the FDA. There they BOUGHT approval. It was expensive, but they had, on camera, the head of the organization telling them they WOULD be approved for a certain fee, no problem. Simply disgusting. Please do expound on the clinical trials details I think most simply do not understand how outrageous expensive this process is.

This is exactly what I am advocating, choose what works best for any particular problem utilizing INFORMED decisions. For instance, say someone falls and hurts themselves to the point of breaking of bones. What is the common sense and informed thing to do? Of course western medicine, if available. IMO it would be stupid to do anything else. Lets take this further. After the initial visit to the physician there is going to be pain. What to do? IMO the western drugs excel at initial trauma and for short-term pain. But say that the pain continues beyond a few days. What to do? THIS is where the complementary therapies excel. To stay in a drugged out state leaves a person non-production. Also, pain drugs tend to not be as effective when taken long-term and a person has to take more and more of them many times to the point of addiction. To enhance the bodies natural healing process is an amazing thing. THIS is where complementary therapies excel. In clinic, I have seen many cases of broken bones with people who medical qigong was performed. Some were able to get by with no pain medication and others needed a minimum. In most cases that were followed up with their physician, the physician always commented on how fast the healing occurred and how soon the cast could be removed. But medical qigong is not the only thing that could help here, that is only what I am most familiar with. I do know many of the Chinese Herbal formulas for trauma are very helpful as well. It would take a visit to a TCM doctor to get the correct formula. I always discourage anyone from playing around with these formulas. With over 5,000 ingredients in the pharmacopeia it does take experience to arrive at the correct formula. Due to the fact that many of these herbs are powerful it would create imbalance if we take the wrong ones. There are also many other complementary therapies that could help. I encourage people to not remain ignorant of what is available. World medicine IS available to us.

I don't know much about the Taiwan situation. I would think it would be similar to what it was in mainland China 15 years ago. One problem I saw was in the younger people. They all wanted to thing that all things western was modern and upbeat and better while all things of their parents and grandparents was old-fashioned and not as good. I do remember when I was teaching a medical qigong survey course at the University School of Medicine in Ms to the 4th year medical students I was giving a lecture and one young Chinese guy got up and loudly protested when I said how the hospitals were laid out, saying China is modern and doesn't prescribe to superstition. Hey, the same all over the world, eh? The younger generation mostly unwilling to look at older wisdom. However, in terms of efficacy, it wasn't how you described. There were far more patients than could be taken care of due to the lack of doctors. The same for my clinics and most of my students. Once word of mouth got out we worked hard to keep up with demand. People don't question when something works, they want more of it. Bear in mind that all medical qigong, just like any particular technique of any medicine system, is not created equal. Some has better efficacy.

The university people I talked to, about 20 of them, have all declined. These studies do have to have a physician involved. They have all declined (unless they were paid). But connections are a key and you perhaps have more than I. The acoustics lab was for a specific thing that would be great - still way too expensive. I don't understand where I have had any type of "behavior" other than my usual joking around. You should understand, after me putting up with uncalled for personal attacks on this board over the last two days, one reason I would prefer to keep this thread non-personal. Also, I was trying to avoid the very thing you accused me of - making this thread about me or medical qigong. Medical qigong is included because it IS a system of medicine. I was hoping for a broader discussion. I still invite your contribution.

Thanks for the link.

Not at all what I said. Perhaps re-read. I have listened and invited you to continue an your on-topic arguments. And do so again. However, " if you actually listened, you could be on your way to revolutionizing world medicine. But nah...you don't want to do any work. You want someone to knock on your door and offer...rather than you knocking on their doors. Excuses abound as to why you haven't done this." is simply more attempts to turn the thread personal. And by the way, do you REALLY believe that? I have worked for a very long time at this and these therapies are now being practiced in most countries of the world due to my efforts. What do you not understand about that? But perhaps you think I have the kind of money to do those type of studies that YOU think are the only validity. If that is what you think, I wish you were correct. You try finding the money - I already have and it didn't work. Maybe you will have more success. Don't know. Beer deficiency, maybe. Can we get back on topic - we need more pro-western viewpoint. Come on, Scott, help me out here. You have training that could be a valuable contribution here. Oh, and how is it one-sided when I have invited you 4 times to resume your arguments about the topic?

No need for this whatsoever, Scott. You had already made up your mind and came into the thread with an obstinate attitude (I am pro western medicine and this DUDE doesn't have a clue about western medicine). We could keep this thread informative and friendly - and still can. I am certainly willing and inviting you to make your arguments. I just asked that we keep it non-personal. Is that so much to ask? l"ets just discuss how medical qigong should be considered world medicine," Did you look at the links posted on the studies? We are discussing the whole - not just medical qigong. One thing you don't appear to understand is that I AM pro-western medicine. Costs of study info: When I looked into doing a particular medical qigong study I called around the countyr to rent an hr of time in an acoustics chamber. This was in the 90's. Cost quoted? 100,000 per hour. Set up time would be charged. I think you just don't understand what these things cost.

Sorry you feel you are my enemy. If you had of stuck with your argument, which I said was a good one, instead of attempting to turn it into a personal thread, you most probably would not feel that way. But you were obstinate and rude once I pointed out what were IMO fallacies in your argument - there was no need because your argument had enough basis to stand on its own. And, I DID look into such a study, many years ago - it was FAR form my personal finances. I was not being fecitious. I had actually hoped you were a millionaire and would take me up on it.

"Cultivated ignorance" DANG!!! Very good expression and quite true.

Very clear, thank you. You mean YOUR standard of double blind study. Not my standard, which I gave IMO to be the more accurate standard, of history of use. Not really interested in publishing such myself. I have, however, REPEATEDLY offered to anyone, including you, that wished to pay for such a study, my services for no fee. And, so far, after over 25 years of offering, no one has been interested. Let me know by PM if you are! Probably cost you less than 5 million, but can't guarantee that.

Yes I just recently learned that Chinese patent medicines cannot be purchased in UK. And here I was going on and on in a conversation with someone in England about medical qigong in combination with Chinese Herbal medicines. Yikes! edit: accidently hit button before I finished. Quick story related to your reply: Many years ago (around 17) I had a massage therapy graduate that graduated from my medical qigong training. She asked me, "Michael, how will I get people to come to me for this therapy? Noone is going to want to come for a therapy they never heard of." I told her, "I predict you will be calling me asking me how to deal with SO MANY people." Sure enough, I got the phone call. When something works, really well, word of mouth spreads fast.

Thanks for posting the link. And I have listed many times the studies (abstracts) on qigong and medical qigong as compiled by Dr Ken Sancier. www.qigonginstitute.org

Yes people who live it have a difference in understanding than those who haven't. I too have a western MD in my family. They are always saying about the newly minted MD's "Just wait until they experience the real world." "It's gonna be a harsh awakening". edit to add: And good point about diet and exercise. This is an important aspect of Naturopathic Medicine, which I have not as yet mentioned. A true story of one of the first famous naturopaths (from England). He was called to the bedside of a dying child who had been treated by "modern medicine" but was still dying. He walked into the closed off room of the child, took one look around, picked up a chair, and threw it through the window. Then told the parents the child would be alright and he would be by to collect his bill the next week. The child lived. Naturopathy - Fresh air, fresh water, diet (including supplements), and exercise.

Good point. I am ignorant of how things work in the UK. But here in the USA that would not happen. TCM is regulated, massage therapy is regulated, Chiropractic is regulated, and of course western MD is regulated. "What works" is a regulator in itself. Yes, "God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy" (song) but people aren't dumb enough to keep paying out for a therapy that doesn't work (well, for the most part).

ARRgh (again) I am not being obstinate. YOU wished to take the thread personal into one of those "prove it to MY standard" type of arguments and I had asked that not happen. I haven't said your argument is wrong. I just gave my reasons why I don't agree with it. Please stick to your argument instead of going off into personal tangents. You have a good argument, why not say why the things I listed are not valid in your opinion? edit: forgot to answer rest of question as I was busy typing another reply. My work as of 2002, is published in my book, A Light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing Several medical qigong treatment methods are listed. This book has shipped literally all over the world and has sold out of print edition but is available on kindle. My written work from 2002-today is in the form of another book. I already have a publisher.

A good point. But one problem with western medicine is not the therapies themselves, or the physicians, but a thing contrived by the insurance companies called "Standard of care". If the physician knows of a therapy that works very well but is not listed as part of the "standard of care", and they go ahead and use it - EVEN if it is effective, they are opened up for a possible lawsuit. Asinine, but the way it is. Sounds to me like it needs an overhaul.

Again, my work is already published. But thank you.

WHO said I was looking for someone to publish my work? My work is ALREADY published and in most countries of the world. These therapies are in most countries of the world, utilized in clinic. ONE MORE TIME, please stick to the topic. I like your argument, so please use those facts.

ARRGH. So you wish to also turn this into a personal argument - sorry, what I do already has been proven many times over, over, and over and this thread is about a "thinking person's concept of World Medicine" NOT about "what I do". Of course it is open to non-thinking people as well.

It is beneath it only as a new category. To ignore the rest of the world is putting blinders on. And that statement "I don't need western medicine, I've got WORLD medicine" is false thinking as it is plainly listed that Western Medicine is an INHERENT aspect of the proposed category of World Medicine. Lets use what works!

I think it is a given that they have to be effective. No one wishes to take or have a therapy performed that is ineffective. History of use does weed this out very well. Could I summarize your statement to say that it is your opinion that ONLY therapeutics that have passed double-blind studies with government approval are valid and those therapies that have not are not valid? My argument for HISTORY OF USE didn't sway you, eh? How about this to support my argument for history of use as being MORE valid than double blind studies?: A list of drugs that completed doubly blind double blind studies that were taken off the market due to immense problems: http://en.wikipedia....withdrawn_drugs Drug name Withdrawn Remarks Thalidomide 1950s–1960s Withdrawn because of risk of teratogenicity; returned to market for use in leprosy and multiple myeloma under FDA orphan drug rules Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) 1950s–1960s Marketed as a psychiatric drug; withdrawn after it became widely used recreationally Diethylstilbestrol 1970s Withdrawn because of risk of teratogenicity Phenformin and Buformin 1978 Withdrawn because of risk of lactic acidosis Ticrynafen 1982 Withdrawn because of risk of hepatitis Zimelidine 1983 Withdrawn worldwide because of risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome Phenacetin 1983 An ingredient in "A.P.C." tablet; withdrawn because of risk of cancer and kidney disease Methaqualone 1984 Withdrawn because of risk of addiction and overdose Nomifensine (Merital) 1986 Withdrawn because of risk of hemolytic anemia Triazolam 1991 Withdrawn in the United Kingdom because of risk of psychiatric adverse drug reactions. This drug continues to be available in the U.S. Terodiline (Micturin) 1991 Prolonged QT interval Temafloxacin 1992 Withdrawn in the United States because of allergic reactions and cases of hemolytic anemia, leading to three patient deaths.[1] Flosequinan (Manoplax) 1993 Withdrawn in the United States because of an increased risk of hospitalization or death Alpidem (Ananxyl) 1996 Withdrawn because of rare but serious hepatotoxicity. Chlormezanone (Trancopal) 1996 Withdrawn because of rare but serious cases of toxic epidermal necrolysis Fen-phen (popular combination of fenfluramine andphentermine) 1997 Phentermine remains on the market, dexfenfluramine and fenfluramine – later withdrawn as caused heart valve disorder Tolrestat (Alredase) 1997 Withdrawn because of risk of severe hepatotoxicity Terfenadine (Seldane, Triludan) 1998 Withdrawn because of risk of cardiac arrhythmias; superseded by fexofenadine Mibefradil (Posicor) 1998 Withdrawn because of dangerous interactions with other drugs Etretinate 1990s Risk of birth defects; narrow therapeutic index Tolcapone (Tasmar) 1998 Hepatotoxicity Temazepam (Restoril, Euhypnos, Normison, Remestan, Tenox, Norkotral) 1999 Withdrawn in Sweden and Norway because of diversion, abuse, and a relatively high rate of overdose deaths in comparison to other drugs of its group. This drug continues to be available in most of the world including the U.S., but under strict controls. Astemizole (Hismanal) 1999 Arrhythmias because of interactions with other drugs Grepafloxacin (Raxar) 1999 Prolonged QT interval Levamisole (Ergamisol) 1999 Still used as veterinary drug; in humans was used to treat melanoma before it was withdrawn for agranulocytosis Troglitazone (Rezulin) 2000 Withdrawn because of risk of hepatotoxicity; superseded by pioglitazone and rosiglitazone Alosetron (Lotronex) 2000 Withdrawn because of risk of fatal complications of constipation; reintroduced 2002 on a restricted basis Cisapride (Propulsid) 2000s Withdrawn in many countries because of risk of cardiac arrhythmias Amineptine (Survector) 2000 Withdrawn because of hepatotoxicity, dermatological side effects, and abuse potential. Phenylpropanolamine (Propagest, Dexatrim) 2000 Withdrawn because of risk of stroke in women under 50 years of age when taken at high doses (75 mg twice daily) for weight loss. Trovafloxacin (Trovan) 2001 Withdrawn because of risk of liver failure Cerivastatin (Baycol, Lipobay) 2001 Withdrawn because of risk of rhabdomyolysis Rapacuronium (Raplon) 2001 Withdrawn in many countries because of risk of fatal bronchospasm Rofecoxib (Vioxx) 2004 Withdrawn because of risk of myocardial infarction Co-proxamol (Distalgesic) 2004 Withdrawn in the UK due to overdose dangers. mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall XR) 2005 Withdrawn in Canada because of risk of stroke. See Health Canada press release. The ban was later lifted because the death rate among those taking Adderall XR was determined to be no greater than those not taking Adderall. hydromorphone extended-release (Palladone) 2005 Withdrawn because of a high risk of accidental overdose when administered with alcohol Thioridazine (Melleril) 2005 Withdrawn from U.K. market because of cardiotoxicity Pemoline (Cylert) 2005 Withdrawn from U.S. market because of hepatotoxicity Natalizumab (Tysabri) 2005–2006 Voluntarily withdrawn from U.S. market because of risk of Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy (PML). Returned to market July, 2006. Ximelagatran (Exanta) 2006 Withdrawn because of risk of hepatotoxicity (liver damage). Pergolide (Permax) 2007 Voluntarily withdrawn in the U.S. because of the risk of heart valve damage. Still available elsewhere. Tegaserod (Zelnorm) 2007 Withdrawn because of imbalance of cardiovascular ischemic events, including heart attack and stroke. Was available through a restricted access program until April 2008. Aprotinin (Trasylol) 2007 Withdrawn because of increased risk of complications or death; permanently withdrawn in 2008 except for research use Inhaled insulin (Exubera) 2007 Withdrawn in the UK due to poor sales caused by national restrictions on prescribing, doubts over long term safety and too high a cost Lumiracoxib (Prexige) 2007–2008 Progressively withdrawn around the world because of serious side effects, mainly liver damage Rimonabant (Acomplia) 2008 Withdrawn around the world because of risk of severe depression and suicide Efalizumab (Raptiva) 2009 Withdrawn because of increased risk of progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy; to be completely withdrawn from market by June 2009 Sibutramine (Reductil/Meridia) 2010 Withdrawn in Europe, Australasia, Canada, and the U.S. because of increased cardiovascular risk Gemtuzumab ozogamicin (Mylotarg) 2010 Withdrawn in the U.S. due to increased risks of veno-occlusive disease and based on results of a clinical trial in which it showed no benefit in acute myeloid leukemia (AML) Propoxyphene (Darvocet/Darvon) 2010 Withdrawn from worldwide market because of increased risk of heart attacks and stroke.[1] Rosiglitazone (Avandia) 2010 Withdrawn in Europe because of increased risk of heart attacks and death. This drug continues to be available in the U.S. Drotrecogin alfa (Xigris) 2011 Withdrawn by Lily worldwide follo Your argument assumes that only western people can judge the efficacy of a therapy and that history of use is not as valid as double blind studies. Non-western countries would think that typical western arrogant thinking. Hmmm, I do believe the above list throws a kink into that "only double blind studied therapies are valid" as it appears that History of Use PROVED the studies to be wrong.

I have no problem with your belief system and feel everyone can believe what they wish. It is up to each person to educate themselves about topics. I also have no problem with a topic of alternative medicine even though I don't agree with alternative medicine. And I certainly do not wish to argue with you. As stated, I only had a problem that you used this thread as a personal attack. Personal attacks have no place on a forum. I do hope you get to feeling better. Colds suk.

Are those formulas approved by the AMA and has a double blind study been done? Just kidding.

We have specific exercises that do exactly that in our Gift of the Tao movement system - great stuff! My point was that one doesn't have to touch Earth to get yin qi and that I only did it to discharge static electric fields.

Cat has the right of it. For energetics simply extend your awareness and seek Earth. Earth has an amazing consciousness that will rock anyone's world. I touch Earth to discharge static electric charges, not because it is needed for the qigong or neigong. Anything metal that is grounded will discharge the static fields. Never been faced with much snow.