Ya Mu

OK, Your response also included this "I also wanted to emphasize that the place the mind is at the moment is identically the circumstance and the healing approach" and when I say we don't use that I meant that we bypass mind in our system which is a non-linear system. The "Listening" I refer to is beyond the mental. The best way I know to describe it, and bear in mind it is impossible to describe non-linear events with linear words, is that it is a sub-atomic event beyond time-space that not only represents the moment but "in the moment of the moment"; in other words it is a changing dynamic. "Listening" is the best term I could use to describe an inherent aspect of what I refer to as "Dancing in the Wu Wei". But yes, what is termed intuition can be a part but is not the totality of "Listening". Basically, this is a concept impossible to conceive or understand until it is learned and applied and goes hand in hand with the practice of Stillness-Movement and is an inherent aspect of Stillness-Movement.

In my response to Kempomaster? Exactly that. He is a senior practitioner of this lineage and a senior student with me who has already completed my medical qigong program and is certified by the NQA as well as my school. He, as well as all the students who have graduated from my program, has amazing results and is exceptional at medical qigong.

Well, I think you did ok. But do know there are other methods that transcend this linear aspect.

"In bringing up the psychic, and I could mention many other traditions of healing, I meant to point out that the particular technique involved is in some ways subordinate to the intuitive reception of the circumstance and the healing approach. I also wanted to emphasize that the place the mind is at the moment is identically the circumstance and the healing approach." Indeed, yes, many traditions do utilize this. We don't. I like what you say about waking up and falling asleep. "I'm afraid my own experience is limited to having helped my parents at the very end of their lives to relax a little, and maybe to let go; I don't know." You should know that you indeed made a difference and that this subject is probably one of the overlooked yet needed aspects of healing. To "go in peace" is one of the most profound aspects of ascending medical qigong, which deals with the dying/transition aspect of ourselves.

Ah, finally, understanding is actual! Very good! What I think you are referring to is indeed an aspect of Listening but doesn't encompass the whole of what Listening is. But yeah, certainly can be and usually is a part. I do suggest though, if you ever wish to continue your healing practice, to go past the empathy feeling in your own body to direct sensing in their body. The reason being is that with the method you are mentioning, it could be quite easy to absorb sick qi. But you do have talents here and I encourage you to follow them.

It would be a great idea here for you to read the thread and not jump to these wild conclusions. If you had of read the thread..., but here I will do it for you: Do I have a problem with his own personal belief? Absolutely not. No one understands anything until they have studied it, and he hasn't. So I wouldn't expect him to understand. What I have a problem with is someone stating nonsense as fact when they have not studied the subject. Do I have a problem with the one in a million? Why yes, because it isn't true. Now if you want to know why it isn't true you can ask me in a respectful manner and I will answer. If you wish to continue with your bullshit insults, I am not interested in giving you any information. What is involved here is your passive aggressive manner bordering on aggressive manner of insult. Please stop this nonsense and stick to the thread about pain. I would bet on it because I have seen it over and over for more years than you are alive. The rest of your post, meh. You use your "psychoanalysis skills" to attempt to apply linear and mental to something that goes far beyond this. It doesn't work that way. As far as to what you suggest would help twinner, it wouldn't work. He will come to conclusions at his pace, not yours or mine. This is as it should be. Again, I have no problems with his own personal conclusions as long as he keeps it as opinion without making broad generalizations to a field of study that he has never involved himself in. Do try to keep to the thread subject.

That's because Jesus had God within, not as an external man in the sky, and he was trying to tell you that you do too! But, finally I do understand your question. I learned and practiced this a very long time ago. It is a form of mid-level medicine. Remember low level = physical, mid level = mental added, high level = one goal, help a person find & fulfill their Destiny. What I found is that while it can tell a practitioner things about their patient, it is an analysis that virtually has no meaning in high level medicine as high-level is not concerned with the linear. Certainly not attempting to prove anything here, but one time a very long time ago I did ask, at a convention, some of the teachers and authors to do this analysis on me. 5 of them. Each answer was different, 2 were total opposites, 2 suggested prescriptions whose herbs contraindicated each other, and none even came close to what my problem was. Same thing in China with 3 well known doctors of Chinese medicine. One of them actually arrived at the correct diagnosis. He was the one I chose to study with. So no. I do not practice it. Gave it up somewhere around 1985. I have a friend who does and obtains a fair amount of success with it. What I practice is medical qigong & Chinese Taoist Medicine, neither of which adhear to linear TCM theory. And no, I am not the only one who understands the terms low level, mid-level, high level Chinese medicine. But I do know many don't. Many don't understand that Chinese medicine encompasses a much broader field than what is known as TCM. And many that graduate in China today don't understand that actual TCM encompasses a much broader compass than today's "Communist TCM". ----------------------------- PAIN is the subject. Please folks, how about asking or telling about pain.

It is puzzling to me as well. The only way ignorance can be overcome is to investigate. Tom is honestly attempting to help people here. The website is a not-for-profit website developed by Dr Ken Sancier; Dr Sancier, himself, is an impeccable and impeccably credentialed scientist, probably the nicest person and most knowledgeable person I have met that understands the scientific implications of medical qigong while stating that as of now, we can only measure components of Qi but not the full spectrum. His qigong database, which I keep referring people here to, but it appears most are usually too damn lazy to look at, represents years of hard work.

Can you please rephrase this into your question you wish to ask, I don't quite understand what you are asking about the 5 elements. Or are you asking or just trying to tell me I don't understand (Help me to help you)? edit: sp

No, does it look like one to you? Were you referring to this question and answer? "Here, let me do that for you, what makes nerves grow I started to answer, from a physiology viewpoint, "protein". But If yours is a serious question I will say, from an energetic viewpoint, we have seen in clinic regeneration of nerves with medical qigong. Nerves grow slowly but the process can be speed-ed up/enhanced by medical qigong"

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You are not allowed to know if I am allowed. If you really wish for me to answer a question, know that I am not interested in bullshit, and ask a serious question if you wish a serious answer. If you are referring to the one-liner you posted where I gave you a link, I did answer the question in addition to the link. Sorry if the answer was not what you wished to hear.

This was lost in all the nonsense so I thought I would repost. Apparently the fact of financial burden of pain is lost on most.

"So your argument is that while you accept that there is qi and it can be manipulated, manipulation over long distance is not acceptable to you...right?" From what I read here he doesn't think it can be done at all, much less distance wise, except by one in a million. He certainly does not realize that placebo doesn't work on animals that medical qigong works very well for, and percentage wise there is no possible way for placebo to have the equivalent efficacy achieved in clinic use of medical qigong.

If I thought you were serious I might.

Aaron, I would be willing to bet that even if you did see it you would come up with some nonsense as to why it wasn't valid.

I did give you an honest answer. So your insult includes saying I am dishonest as well as arrogant, huh. Go get your qigong teacher to explain the energetics of reflection. Any new age book will make you a master of mirroring. I wanted to talk about pain but I honestly don't think but only a very few people here have any interest or knowledge in the subject. To those very few people who have had pain in their lives that did post honest & heartfelt answers without adding bullshit I do thank you.

There are others, but I really don't recall the details. Most of the case histories I posted here were within the last few years of my practice in my current location. Files from other locations are either packed up in storage or have passed the required time that I have to keep them, which varies from state to state. I have been licensed in 3 states and currently am in two. The majority of my cases were physical pain cases referred to me by physicians who knew what I did. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be early on in my career, when I subcontracted to a physical therapy clinic, I developed a reputation with the local physicians and specialists (neurologists, etc) for being able to help intensely physically injured people. So what followed is up to 14 hr days of medical qigong & Taoist medicine with these type of clients. In other words, psychological clients didn't seek me out so there were not as many in my case files. If I think of some or ever have the opportunity to go through old case histories I will let you know. I may or may not have posted this one, and it may or may not be the type of case in which you are referring to, but I do remember it due to unique circumstances: I received a call from distraught parents of a young teenager. Their child had been sneaking out of the house and partying with older teens. After one of these episodes they were brought home the next morning and were completely out of their mind. Parents thought they were still on drugs but the symptoms, instead of wearing off, continued. Not one word uttered by this child made any sense; mostly they went on and on about the garbage truck. So in desperation they brought the young person to me. This was one of those one-shot deals. After a very long session this teen got up off the table and spoke normally to their parents and didn't exhibit any more symptoms from this episode. And I have observed your progression in the Listening; you have gotten very good at it. Good job.

No Maybe Yes No; every energetic situation is unique Aaron & I don't believe in that stuff I was explaining the energetics to someone who asked. It had nothing to do with "look how I handled that mistaken person". And since that person doesn't believe in energetics it really shouldn't matter, should it. In your opinion should I have not explained? Would that be less arrogant? Doesn't it smack of arrogance when people say things like "that smacks of arrogance"? edit: Oh, and I think your idea of mirroring is a total different thing than simply reflecting back energy. Mirroring requires assuming the same mindset. Reflecting is simple reflecting.

It still is a mystery to me why "double blind scientific" holds more weight that history of use and experiential evidence. IMO in part, concerning medicine, a purely deceptive thing borne from "Your Doctor is always right" "Scientific method is King" that was shoved down our throats growing up (at least in my generation) and from an intense arrogance from the West concerning Chinese Medicine. In western medicine this has been proven to be false through the history of use failures.

Well, at least we know you are alive. Hiya.

Dr Ken Sancier, who started that website after he retired from SRI as a senior scientist, established it as a non-profit institute and began to collect scientific abstracts on qigong & medical qigong. He has an impeccable reputation. I did suggest you look at some of the research. Lower back pain can most definitely have a component in stress as well as anxiety. A contributor to the problem for sure. But the problem can be from many things and stress alone is usually not what started the low back pain.

Thanks for your objective ha ha opinion. No one has control over me but myself. I wanted twinner to see what he was doing, I added no energy of my own but simply reflected what he was throwing right back. This is an important energetic lesson and you can see that it worked because he got tired of receiving exactly what he threw and is now posting in a civil manner. Notice the increase of posters now? Do you really think it would have been better for me to say nothing, let misinformation stand, then someone comes along and believes that stuff? No. One thing you fail to understand is that I post usually not for the person, to be "right" or "wrong" but as a voice for medical qigong, which as you can see, is VASTLY misunderstood. Suggest you give up your preconceptions about how things work when you don't understand what it really going on as well as any particular ultimate healing goal. Energetics happen in the background of which you are unaware. On the suface the thing to do is back off when insults are hurled your way, and sometimes indeed this is best. Other times a catalyst is needed, and this catalyst can be energy feedback. So what your mind tells you is the "right" thing to do at any given moment is not necessarily (actually seldom is) the best overall thing to do. This is called "flying in the face of convention" (Chinese have a name for this) energetically. Not caring what someone may think of you but actually attempting to do what is needed. In other words, what may conventionally seem the best is not always so. Suggest you practice your qigong. I just did.

I have seen no "facts" in what you have stated, only opinions. But again, welcome back to the thread as a contributor. It is much better. See how many more people have posted since you toned down the insults? "I suspect now that emotional trauma can actually manifest as physical trauma and vise versa." Bingo! YES!!! "I've seen enough first-hand evidence to convince me that there are indeed subtle energies at work in my body and tapping into those energies can be more powerful than any other 'western' therapy that I've tried." Yes, this was the case for me as well. I had spent my life savings to western medicine with absolutely no results whatsoever and could barely walk or function in society, before I found Chinese Taoist Medicine. "I think some people become attached to their pain and are actually afraid to part with it." I believe this to be true as well and it is a part of my clinical experience that it is true.