Ya Mu

I see your point and have heard this quite a bit even to the point of agreeing with it just enough, after many years of refusing to do so, of putting a video on the net with youtube. In the end, though, a lot of what it attracts are assholes and idiots that send insulting emails about it; but if someone emails me and says "this does nothing for ME" I will have to agree with them. They can watch 10,000 of this and similar videos and have absolutely no understanding of qi. These videos at best stimulate interest, but really prove nothing to the person observing them, unless said person has already developed qi sensitivity. It HAS to be self-understanding and become self-evident otherwise it really has not much meaning. This is why in class I tell attendees it is not in what I SAY but in what they do with the energetics. I can help MOST people feel Qi in less than 30 seconds, but without a legitimate practice it still doesn't have much meaning. It has to become our own.

Good point! Unfortunately, it seems most are stuck in the physical and mental. Here's hoping more and more open up to the divine.

++++++++ Qi is just a word until it's reality becomes SELF-EVIDENT. OP,descriptions more here

Yes, the calmness is an aspect of the lineage. We also utilize this in our medical qigong; this is where our "valium treatment" that works so well comes from. We also gain ability to walk into a room full of non-calmness and transmute this to calmness (as in the example I have given of walking in on someone about to shoot someone else) This is an absolute reflection of Shen. A couple of things that I don't agree with but I have to say this is one fine post. Thank you for putting this perspective here. One of those things is: Yes, I never have understood people saying "Now breathe in the qi or breathe it into the ___ part of the body." We can pull qi into any part of the body and it is a totally independent process from breath, although yes, air contains a small amount of qi. We get that from natural breathing. The confusion from how it used to be written (vapor rising from boiling caldron) to the way qi is written now (breath) has brought a whole slew of practices about that are at the very least oh-so-limiting and inefficient. When people really study both neigong and physiology, they certainly see the connection with ATP; thanks for pointing that out. But Qi is far beyond human body limitations. edit: to correct bold on comment

The point of your statement seems to me is that John Chang had a teacher. Of course he did. But you certainly don't really know anything whatsoever about it, do you? Only students of that system do. You are not bothering to attempt to understand here. So we are done.

You misunderstand what I mean as "Destiny". I also have posted here several times about this. People are not generally going to awaken to who they really are from reading a book or reading posts on the internet. Just as I am now wasting my time because you really are not interested in learning. Only in making points derived from your lack of understanding. Do you really think the true inner practices are gained from a book or from the internet? Then have at it if that is what you think and want. Sure there are minor successes by people trying something they read (and these same people think they are doing the "real thing"). From what I see there are much more traumas than successes or at the very least, if not traumas, complete wastes of time. Either you just don't understand the difference in actually learning the real thing or you are unwilling to listen to those with experience. Concerning learning from books, read this post: "For over three years the only books that I purchased were on Reiki, Qigong, and Energy Healing in general. I spent a LOT of money on books. Then in September of 2007 I attended a workshop of Michael's... On the advice of Chris I packed all my books away and devoted myself to doing the Stillness/Movement meditation for an hour every day. Now it is over a year later and for the last year I haven't bought any Qigong books... As Michael says - "You can read books on Qigong from now until the end of time and you won't gain as much as you can from DOING an hours worth of meditation (specifically the Stillness/Movement meditation)." And I have found this to be very true." I added the bold. It is as foolish (Being a fool) to attempt to try these things with no background or basis as it is to read a book and go do brain surgery. You can "screw up" (and since you don't like the word that the patients themselves use, let's define it as "make one's life miserable" just as many people from the former as kill numbers of people from the latter. But since you don't think so, perhaps you could get a volunteer for brain surgery from posting on a forum. I certainly wouldn't be surprised. This post about 2 pages back clarifies this very well: Bold is added by me. There are several qualified teachers in the US. MOST people are well advised to find them if they really wish to learn qigong or neigong.

OK, read one more time - 3rd time is a charm they say. "... I do believe "screwed up" is a very apt term for most of these folks used these very words (themselves)." the word "themselves" added for clarity Don't know how to make it any more clearer. Of course I understand the difference, you are just not reading what was written. Exactly where did I talk about organs? Are you referring to a separate thread? Informed decision? Destiny

Complex yes, as there are many stages and layers. Difficult? No. Very simple. The interactions of energetics with the human body is indeed complex.

I really don't think you are listening. Let's try again:

It is an informed perspective from having taught and worked in a medical qigong clinic for so long. I do believe "screwed up" is a very apt term for most of these folks used these very words. The syndromes caused by sexual retention practices probably have had the most incidence in the clinical problems but it certainly has not been the total. Neurological disorders due to over-stimulation of neuro system, energy field distortion and burn through leading to complex pain syndromes as well as syncope, attempting to circulate "micro-cosmic orbit" without actually having built qi has also led to the same; seen quite a number of these. There are more, but exactly what is your point? Surely you have seen many of these posts asking for help due to them attempting to do energetic practices from a book or from internet posts. The practice of real energetics is most definitely as complex and IMO MORE complex as any of the things I mention above, and no one would attempt any of those things without first receiving training. The problem with teaching is that most are unwilling to listen. edit: Sp

Dare I say, without getting attacked by those mean and vicious Buddhists , that most practices have both Taoist & Buddhist influence? As well as a little bit of Confucius, probably a smidgen of Christianity with Zoroaster's teachings for added flavor? Take recipe, stir with heat, bake in cauldron, allow to simmer for at least 10 years, add in a pinch of spontaneity, and enjoy.

Stillness-Movement neigong is essentially a Shen cultivation, although don't take this wrong and attempt to classify it as only Shen. It has to do with the awakening. It has to do with the raising of the energy body vibration. It has to do with finding one's true self/true nature. It has to do with finding who you really are, awakening to this and pursuing this higher level path that is an expression of who you really are. It has to do with... well, you know, it has to do with much of which is difficult to express in words but that is felt/experienced by those that practice it. In our Stillness-Movement medical qigong we do have body techniques. But the advanced students work mostly with Shen.

Agreed.

Otis you make some very good points about spontaneity. And I have read some of your stories about your dancing relieving pain, and applaud you for your efforts. I am also fond of spontaneous dancing. Does it energize you? Of course it does. Does it make you more healthy and enhance wei qi? I would have to believe this to be so. Does it do much for your actual energy body? Not much of the aspect of physicality does. What I can definitely tell you is that the physicality that you and so so many others (majority) are attached to is a very short blink of the eye - no, faster than that. At death this becomes obvious. The energy body is the immortal aspect of ourselves and is very real, certainly NOT a metaphor. If you would like to actually learn about it I suggest studying real Chinese neigong instead of thinking what you made up as having much to do with your energy body or synonymous with qigong/neigong . Because if it did, then you would absolutely know it is not a metaphor.

It is well know in Taoist circles - have no idea where you can read about it. Funny (as in good), I have had many cases of men with these type of symptoms in my clinic and the guys were told by their physicians, in several cases that I remember, to do this exact same thing. The Taoist medicine had 100% result in eliminating this problem. Also helping women with sexual/female system problems.

If the energy body is only a metaphor then I guess the physical body is as well. So, since it is a metaphor, seems like there would be no problem walking out in the street in front of traffic. How could a truck hurt a metaphor?

What would YOU do if someone came up to you and asked you to put together for them a program in brain surgery? Would you do so or suggest they go to medical school? Or in learning to play football? Would you do so or suggest to them to go for proper training? Or how about bone manipulation? Would you do so or tell them best to go to a chiropractic, osteopathic, or Chinese Tui Na school? Or how about learning the skill of belly dancing? Would you do so or tell them to go for training? What about if someone came up to you and asked for a program in cutting hair? Would you put that together? Wonder what kind of response you would get if you asked in those respective forums? What comes of this sort of thing is the hundreds of sad posts,"Help me, I did such and such and it really screwed me up. What can I do? We really should have a sticky of the summation of the those types of posts over the last several years. I get requests for help all the time from people screwed up from practicing something from a book or something they read on the internet, who think the practice of energetics is something ... you know, I don't know just what the heck they think - in fact,IMO they aren't thinking at all.

Thanks for the review. It was a pleasure having you and the other TTBers at the workshop. Just a GREAT bunch of guys and gals! This is a system that you can take as far as you want and I think you will do very well with it. Thanks for the case reports. I too noticed the gentleman you mentioned. When I first saw him the next day I almost wanted to think he was someone else because to me had absolutely did look much younger. A REALLY GOOD job you did. A note on the medical qigong speech technique. This was one of Master Wang's "little treasures" unique to our system of medical qigong. I have never seen it fail to work.

Your experiences coincide with my own. This happens regardless of belief, although, as you say, belief can interfere with the student's recognition initially. Before I learned control and some of the "don't do this-es" of energy manipulation, I used to throw qi. Several times I have seen people thrown several feet to the floor with this. Knocked a huge martial artist type out of his chair - and he absolutely had no prior belief in this qi stuff, but came to my workshop anyway. Lucky for me he took it OK (actually came to other workshops) Also, and I believe I have posted this before, had a girl walk up to me in a heath food store and asked me about a workshop but wanted to feel qi. I slung qi at her and it knocked her several feet across the room into an unconscious heap. Lucky for me I was able to instantly revive her with medical qigong, and she became one of my best students. I learned my lesson and have NEVER thrown the qi since (and this was many years ago). Also, when I was younger, was "hit" by a 90 something year old Chinese Master. I had never even heard the term "empty force", but was clearly knocked several feet to the wall, and his open palm strike didn't physically touch me. Lucky for me I ended up studying with him for 3 years. The force damn sure wasn't empty. But hey, like I said, I am not a martial artist so I'll let the MA types argue about it.

But Chia said... just kidding. IMO there is nothing wrong with cultivation and sex when following the middle path. Didn't Daniel Reed (memory-perhaps not)write about this as well? 2 days recuperation in twenties, 3 days recuperation in 30's, etc. This is what I was originally taught. But NOT, as some systems suggest to not cultivate during that recuperation period. In fact, IMO, it goes against common sense. Just when a person NEEDS the cultivation most. IMO all this changes when one practices dual cultivation so that the energy spent is utilized in an alchemy reaction to actually create more energy. However, I haven't seen this written about except in my book.

Agreed. I am not a martial artist and I certainly wouldn't call it "empty force" but I have seen this effect happen on people who had no prior belief or disbelief; they knew nothing whatsoever about it. Do I think it is constantly reproducible? No. IMO way too many variables, not the least being the ebb and flow and constant state of flux of energy, the electrical resistance, capacitance, and qi level of the person receiving, and the current moment state of the person initiating it. Of course this is exactly the same reason that doubly blind studies concerning medical qigong are difficult to perform.

Sometimes planting that seed, making a difference even if at the time it may seem to some as small in the overall scheme of things, can be one of the most awesomeness acts possible.

My vote for the best replies are:

Depending on how bad the scoliosis is, help has come in the form of the Chinese bodywork therapies. I have had good results in clinic. But if the scoliosis is severe and has already compensated, to change it could be traumatic. I would say this has nothing to do with your "finding" your center. A good teacher should be able to create the field (field of elixer) for you so that you can continue to work with and refine. Once a person starts practicing a real system the Dan Tian gets quite large - it is not a matter of "finding" it. The scoliosis could possibly come into play at this point. As the qi rises it will attempt to work through the stagnant areas. This is also the time where bodywork therapies can go a long way in helping.

+++ Good! Just wanted to quote this again. Seems most get confused with this from reading and believing what someone wrote all about "chakras"; which was most probably taken from someone else's work, which was probably taken from someone else's work, which got repeated... Funny I never see anyone talk about energy centers / "chakra" differences / dimensionality of chakras, etc.