Ya Mu

Zenyatta likes it as well.

You do have an energy center there but no "dan tian - field of elixer". The cultivation of dan tian is at the core of Neigong. The problem is that it does take a very long time to create on one's own. Somewhere between 6 to 10 years depending on how much time is put in,; but of course this is possible in less time if one puts in all day everyday cultivation. Most Neigong methods have a way of shortening this time process through use of technique and/or through use of direct energetics by the teacher. In Stillness-Movement Neigong this is done by the Teacher actually creating this field then the student going home and building on it. This significantly changes the amount of time to where the student can actually manipulate energy. In our workshops the student is able to manipulate qi and actually achieve typically between 70 to 100 percent result in eliminating pain of someone else after only 2 days of cultivation. No needles needed. "Meditating on Dan Tian does nothing" is not true - it is only that to really progress in a significantly shorter time period a real Teacher is needed.

Good! I think that so many (in the other thread) became defensive as they equated "morality" with religion. As in practicing a determined by definition morality. Someone posted there that they KNEW and of course this was attacked by others who didn't understand that, at our true core, we DO KNOW, at each moment of moments, exactly which action is harmonious with Tao/Universe/God and which action is the best for us to take at this moment of moments. This process, which I call "Listening", is the true expression of virtue. For we are then doing/acting or non-acting in a harmonious manner with everything, including our own personal higher level goals (sometimes acting by non-action). I write extensively about this Listening process in my new book which I hope to release this summer. The problem of course is that we need to arrive at the point where we can express this or actually have this tie-in with our inner core. This is where cultivation comes in. To allow us to arrive at a point where we do KNOW.

I would say go for what you like. I don't practice Tai Jee Or Bagua but I will tell you that there is no need practicing something you don't like. Quite a long time ago I studied with Master Chang, who in his 90's still referred to himself as Chen Pan Ling's senior student. He lived in NO and I drove from the far side (about an hr) of Jackson to see him. I wanted to learn his Hsing I and didn't care about the tai jee but he made me do it concurrently. Long story short; the Hsing I somewhat stuck and I STILL don't like Tai Jee as a personal practice. Study what you like, I say.

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html Neigong from accomplished MA.

But you did mention qi projection. Which is a different field of study than self-development although one has to go through the self-development aspect in order to study the other. Are you interested in only self-development or in the medical aspect for helping others? One resource would be to look on www.nqa.org for teachers in your area. It IS extremely difficult to judge which system works without looking at the students of any particular system. In the medical qigong field they either can or can't. The efficacy is either low, mid, or high. If the students have low efficacy chances are the self-development aspect of the system is weak.

It does appear as if you are getting involved with the sensationalism aspect of energetics. My advice, should you want it, would be simply to find a teacher you resonate with and study with them. If medical qigong, the ability and methods to help others through qi projection, is what you are after there are several fine programs in the USA and in other parts of the world. But talking about them will not get anyone anywhere as it is in the practice itself. Forget leaping tall buildings for the most likely outcome of such a desire is to have the tall building leap at you. And that helps no one.

(3) Hu Yaozhen's qigong healing methods. Ken probably does not know that my methods are in a large part of the direct lineage from Grandmaster Hu. He was one of Master Wang's primary teachers. As in Hu>Wang>Lomax. I probably have never discussed this much with my students as I attempt to live in the NOW and history is history so I don't go on much about the lineage, with the exception of paying respects to Master Wang. Grandmaster Hu was born in 1879 and lived until 1973. He was recognized by his peers as the father of modern qigong and medical qigong. He was very well known for his neigong methods. There are many wondrous stories of Grandmaster Hu, and as I said in another post on this thread, he was known as "single finger can shake the world" because his qi was so powerful. He was observed many times levitating as well as possessing other highly developed skills. He was recognized by his peers as one of the more powerful qigong masters of his time; the same for Master Wang, who was recognized by his peers as one of the more powerful qigong masters of his time. I will email you some more info on Grandmaster Hu. The skills of students of this lineage are among the highest neigong and medical qigong skills available and speak for themselves, as you are aware, and as you are coming into your own with them. You are already far past most that I have observed from other systems with more than 15 years of training. But thanks for mentioning me, not because I am anything but a cog on the wheel, but because these methods are simply amazing and wondrous in their ability to help humanity, and will continue to do so. I do wonder why Ken lists dead men instead of the actual teachers of these methods. Not impossible, but dead men are very difficult to find and study with.

You would be surprised (well, I guess YOU wouldn't) how many times I have been argued with that qigong MUST have breath control and visualization. I particular do not like the forms that do.

Re: 7 major forms - the teachers of 5 of these forms are listed in my book under Master Wang's teachers. I can't tell you what the forms were except for the static/dynamic form. Possibly some research on the names will yield what they were famous for. I had a typo in the book where it should have read Hu Yaozhen. re: calisthenics I have not seen anything that convinces me that many of these type of movements are as good for health as rebounding. I would go so far as saying that most are not. Yes, qigong is umbrella term. Neigong specific term.

Hi Ken, I think those that actually know the difference speak one way and those that don't speak another. But yes, the communists seem to prefer the general term "qigong" for "health exercises". And I don't think this reflects ignorance of the evolution of the terminologies as much as ignorance of the methods. But I certainly agree with you on what you say here "... What's important are the objective (or claims) of the energetic practice that you are considering and whether or not there is any evidence that these claims are possible to achieve with the practice."

Yes they are. Partly because they have to only talk about this with certain restrictions and part because they too, fit into the category of 1,2, and 3 I posted. Medical qigong IS an established modality of Chinese Medicine, as applied therapeutics, and it only confuses people to arbitrarily use these terms. Not as easy these days to find real medical qigong in China due to crackdown by gov.

You are probably correct in some folk's use of the term but I think the main reason for it's widespread misuse is one of these 3: 1)They can't project qi and just wish for their qigong to be special, too. 2)Ignorance 3)Not ignorant, but market savy. This is the same as lying. I don't think it should be excused. ALL exercises of any kind are supposed to be for health improvement. So the term "medical qigong" is what it is and that is wai qi liao fa.

Very good point. Most of what is "sold" is qigong and most of that is more or less calisthenic exercises. There are certain people who went to China, saw a janitor exercising in the park, and asked him to teach his "qigong". Janitor saw great monetary visions and told the "long nose" of course he would teach his "qigong". Said person came back, started a school, and is all of a sudden a grandmaster of spectacular bullshit. It is very much a buyer beware field, as much as I hate to say it. I was somewhat guilty of the reverse. Back when I started I tried to use the word "neigong" and nobody knew what the heck it meant, so I joined the rank and file of the qigong world and substituted the word "qigong", for people had at least heard of this (at least some people). Now people are more exposed to the term "neigong" and as the years have gone on I have attempted to use the word far more than I have in the past. And I do teach authentic neigong. Lots of confusion out there. "Medical Qigong" is another thing that has gotten bastardized. Medical qigong, the terms also first used by Grandmaster Hu and his peers (he didn't have many), means wai qi liao fa , healing with external energy. Now you have everybody and his brother, WHO DON'T EVEN TEACH MEDICAL QIGONG, using it to describe what they do and as titles on DVD's. Go figure.

Static/Dynamic, hence Stillness-Movement Neigong is the art of dancing in the Wu Wei derived from stilling/removing Mind from the equation, absolutely "NO" to the mental/visualization. Neigong should have both Heaven and Earth components.

In the 40's or so there were only 7 major publicly taught forms. Now there are (2000???). So the answer is yes, MOST of what is called qigong today are "healthy exercises"; ie calisthenics.

I will give you an answer in practical terms and the history as I know it. I am not big on history, but here is what I can say. There were many different exercises termed many different names when Master Hu Yao-Zhen with Liu Gui-Zhen and others decided to standardize the term as "Qi Gong". Grandmaster Hu Yaozhen is considered by many as the father of modern day qigong. The communists decided to standardize "qigong" and the result is that quite a bit (most) qigong is nothing but calisthenic exercise. Neigong is the internal static and dynamic cultivation of energy; but not only qi but also jing, and shen. Neigong is the true Taoist cultivation method. Hu Yao-Zhen was known as "single finger can shake the world." He was my teacher's teacher.

If it is true that Buddha is a reflection of your manners or if yours are a reflection of Buddha's then I am sure the ism will just eventually fade away.

Yeah, I've read that too. I think what you are finding is only layers of the energy centers. IMO the true chakra's don't have a heckuva lot to do with the physical body.

You know, I have said for a very long time that chakra's and the energy centers were not the same; one has dimensionality and the other has a physical location. I have found only a few who seem to understand this.

I find your post very disillusioning. Why? Not because of anything you defined. What got me was this: "The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma." Dang, I can't buy a stairway to Heaven? :lol:

"We also have to remember that it is not our task to heal everyone. Sometimes people are sick because of their own stupidity, if you heal them then you rob them of their medicine..." A most excellent point.

I think one of the problems is that perhaps only 1 in 10000 (heck, may be 1 in 100,000 or more)in the field of energetics healing has been exposed to the difference. So there is no frame of reference for them. And if someone like me says it is different I get all sorts of flack from the ignorant. Of course this ignorance should (doesn't mean it will) dissolve once folks are exposed to this difference, wouldn't you agree?

I remember somewhere in the 80's when it became the "in thing", IMO, not worth a dime. In fact, I would say more people have been hurt trying to use it than have been helped using it. Those who have had success was not because of the reiki itself but because of who they are. Does anyone REALLY believe someone can hold they hand over your head and turn you into a "master"? But to be perfectly fair, the qigong world has the same thing going on. People who can project a little qi but have no real understanding and the words "High Level healing" means nothing to them because they have never experienced the difference. In fact, there are those who consider showing a person an exercise to be "medical qigong", which really bastardizes the true meaning of the word. Best if we get our semantics straight and help others to understand the difference.

And I bet you have an uncle that knows all about it as well. I am not surprised at all that you don't know the difference and don't "see" what the big deal is.