Ya Mu

"Most of the juice comes from kundalini and cosmic healing." And this was my point; you are no longer limited by the reiki - it is no longer reiki. edit: However, as long as it works you can call what you do pleythast healing and it won't make any difference. AS LONG AS YOU do not put those limitations on it. What is in a name? - sometimes the energetics associated.

Hi, Just saw this today so I know it is an "after" type reply. Just wanted to say I have met Brian and he is a heckuva nice guy. And obviously has been with the Bagua for quite some time.

"...no one who has put in the years of work to achieve real mastery in qigong or yoga would place those credentials equally alongside the title of reiki master, which isn't earned through hard work, but can be acquired in a couple of weekend seminars (or even online these days). just doesn't match up. makes the whole set-up come across as new agey and suspect." Great point! OP, once you master (and I use the word very loose here as I have only met one master in my entire life) energetics with the paths you described then I would think, at this point, you actually can no longer do reiki as your energy body is far beyond that. I can't tell you the number of people who, after attending a workshop and me getting them started in medical qigong, who have later emailed me to tell me their "reiki" took an exponential jump. GRRR, that is not what happened at all! They are now doing a much higher level of healing and no longer do reiki. So I agree to lose the titles, and personally I would say drop all references to reiki, and just be who you are. If you have results, they will come.

I do often skim over your posts - and see the exact same thing written over and over. SO stuck in the mental realm. You moan and groan about Taoists being stuck with the physical while your thinking is exactly that, a mental loop that goes on over and over, with no Spiritual content. But I do know that you are not interested in knowing or learning anything and only come on here to preach. Of course some have said the same thing about me. But I don't ask anyone to believe one word I say, as everything becomes self-evident through the practice. I really didn't wish to come onto a Buddhist thread and interject this but you have just kept on and on. You remember what I said about the top of the mountain? AND the 3,600 schools of thoughts? Of course you don't as you have not listened - only talked. At the top of this holy BUDDHIST mountain, through much time&effort meditation, different schools of Buddhist thought were evaluated, compared, argued, and experienced. The same with Taoist thought. What was determined was that the mind is the most powerful thing that has been created here on this Earth. (I know you wished to hear that!) And that all the schools of thought exploring this powerful mind had gained much insight. And great things could be accomplished by continuously massaging the mind. Through contemplation many things would be revealed. But when all was said and done, they determined that the mind was also our greatest enemy, for it created a slave of the true inner core that resided within. That indeed, although oh-so-powerful, it was FINITE. They then took all the many things from Buddhist thought, and Taoist thought and Confucian thought, and Hindi thought that were profound and good and integrated into their system, and found worked hard at finding ways to completely bypass the mental realm AND DID SO. Helping to eliminate that oh-so-deadly trap of FINITE thought and experience. And know there are no links or books I can point you to. So you and I are through here on this thread. Go ahead and say what you want - I am sure it will be another page of telling me that I don't understand, and that you know someone's uncle who knows a method that you personally don't understand because you don't know the difference between true energetics versus mental manipulation. And of course the statement that I don't understand is true. Unlike you I don't understand everything.

"Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware...." And it seems to me that your concepts are purely from the mental realm. And I think you are not aware of the higher ones. At least nothing from your posts suggests this - all is centered on the mental. "So yes, I'm being condescending because you keep asking questions that have been answered." Nope. I asked in relationship to DO and you started spouting everything but. BTW I know the massage method you refer to and it isn't energy based. Do you know it? VAJ I am not going to keep sparring with you, if that is what this has come to. Your method of presentation is somewhat interesting but I don't have any affinity for it. I think you yourself are probably a good guy. Good luck to you.

REALLY! Of COURSE I am not here to learn anything from you! Whatever gave you the idea I was? I had asked you and everyone else hung on the mental concept of DO to give practical explanations and examples because a poster above me had asked the same thing. And then I get all this grief BUT STILL no practical examples. I have seen most of the yoga forms - they are physical in nature and have nothing whatsoever to do with Taoist neigong, which you seem to be dancing around and not admitting you have never practiced. "YOU people.." How condescending. Would you like me to pay for a flight for you to go see Christian missionaries who feed the hungry? Well, I certainly am not volunteering it. But they do exist. So what the heck does that have to do with anything? You seem to be a Master of attempting to throw people from what they are talking about with unrelated info. And no, the mind goes nowhere when we "die", it is a computer which has nothing whatsoever to do with who we really are. You are stuck at the 2nd level. All I have heard is MORE mental masterbation with the exception of "I don't understand systems that emphasis the body! That makes absolutely no sense when the path is a spiritual path!", which I wholly agree with!

For once we agree on something! I also say the same thing about just physical practices! But still, hatha yoga and all you have mentioned is not at all the same as Taoist neigong. In some ways we say the same thing, but the teachings do deviate.

Buddhist passive sitting or a Taoist neigong practice? Two totally different things. But, thanks for posting a tidbit about the healing practices even though I STILL have heard no specific info.

I have not yet seen this practical evidence. I guess the thing is one could substitute the word "Jesus" in all the places where DO is used and to me, it would be saying the same thing. I like to see practical evidence and I also don't understand any system where the emphasis is on the mental, as to me it makes no sense. But hey, that is just me and to each his own. I only posted because I felt "Ben"'s post was a good question and would be ignored while more mental "indulgent challenges" were tossed about. I also can't personally embrace any system that denies who one really is instead of assuming responsibility for who they really are. But there are many beliefs on this world.

"Yes, I've practiced for years. Please do you, don't try to do me...." This is not what you said. You said you had read for years - not practiced, and I only was repeating what you said. And it is very ignorant of you to think that my only exposure to Buddhism is through the philosophical points posted here. I was posting relative to the points here. And what you are saying about the healing methods THAT is what I was asking you to post instead of all the intellectual rambling. SPECIFIC information.

Substitute the words " Practical Taoism" in your second paragraph and the same in your 3rd paragraph, and it would say pretty much the same thing I would say. AS far as your first paragraph, the part that I just posted, I agree. A part of my teachings came from the Golden Summit Monastery which combined more than 3,600 schools of thought, including Buddhist thought.

But have you actually PRACTICED - not read. That is what you yourself told me was the only way to understand, and I agree with you. Thanks you for pointing me to post #72 which I had indeed missed. So there are some physical practices, per your post. Good. But there is not, to the best of my knowledge, an attached healing system for others with this practice. Wouldn't there need to be for this to help others? Never mind, I do believe I know the answer to this.

So also, does practical taoism lead to the energetic state of being able to choose. With no belief in DO. But what I asked was for practical benefits, etc.

I haven't seen any posts that you addressed to me, can you please point me to them and to the subject I ask? I apologize if I have missed them, but your posts usually are so very long and that makes them very difficult, for me, to read. So can I assume by your saying this that you are saying the belief of DO DOES offer help to humanity and the other things I asked? Can you give more examples or just point me in this thread to where those answers are? I could suggest to you some Taoist books, but probably the same waste of time as you suggesting a Buddhist book, for neither of us would understand from the book, would we?! As you say, the only way to understand would be to practice it.

Ah, finally a thoughtful post. Thanks. I believe that if you substituted the words "the Light" or Awareness of and attunement to the Light" everywhere in your above paragraph (and please don't forget the last sentence) you would have my view. My view is something that I don't ask people to believe one word of. I STILL, though, although you finally touched upon it (one small part), wish my original question would be addressed. Is there a reason it can't be addressed? My original question (statement asking for) that was first asked by the poster "Ben", which has never been addressed: ...exactly what does one achieve from this practice and belief system of dependent origination. That is what I would like to read, actual experiences of health, happiness, spiritual calmness, help to humanity, etc from those experienced in this belief. I keep asking this over and over but only to be told I don't understand DO, which I have multi-admitted. So please, no more "But you don't understand D.O. OR "It is not a belief system..", which can be tricky by definition, just give me those wondrous and sparkling reports. And to be fair, one person did say that it doesn't help humanity. Bummer.

And Ya Mu is glad that you are not one of his dependents. But Santa? How could you not believe in Santa. You see, he lives at the North Pole... ah you just don't understand Santa-ism. And what you say is how I feel, so I was asking the believers what exactly were the benefits to humanity of the belief system of dependent origination.

It is obvious that you don't understand dependent origination. What we said was that it opens the channels. Wait...What? Are you saying that the belief in dependent origination dispels any of this from actual happening? Believers in dependent origination don't have to eat food? What do they do then? And once again, I am not arguing against it. For as a belief system it is just as valid as any other, I guess. What I asked for was practical examples of how it has helped humanity, etc. Christian: "But you just don't understand Jesus. Believe in him." Buddhist: "But you just don't understand dependent origination. Believe in it." What is the difference? I know in the first case it has done nothing for humanity other than cause wars and strife and control by governments and heads of churches. Not the fact or fiction of Jesus but this belief thing. Pure fanaticism. So one more time, what I asked for was practical examples of how it (belief in DO) has helped humanity, etc My original statement: That is what I would like to read, actual experiences of health, happiness, spiritual calmness, help to humanity, etc from those experienced in this belief.

OK "...but I don't see how you can realise that the sense of a separate self is an illusion..." It seems to me we are still referring to a belief. Edit: But I didn't post to argue about the belief. I asked for some practicality in the belief, How it has helped humanity etc.

OK BUT "Many other systems deal with opening the channels and removing tensions but the Buddhist aim is to go for the root tension or corner stone which holds the foundations of all the tensions and blockages in the channels together which is the belief in a separate self... Many other systems strive for and accomplish the same thing so no, this accomplishment is not dependent on the belief in dependent origination. In addition, many other people besides Buddhists are some of the nicest most compassionate people I have ever met, so this compassion and ability to be nice is not dependent on the belief in dependent origination.

Truly trained people who can actually manipulate energetics to help others are desperately needed in today's society. We all have issues that this type of healing can address, be it physical, emotional, or spiritual.

Well, of course I don't "get" dependent origination. Otherwise I would have given the same over and over theoretical argument that has been used here that of course is dependent on the belief that this is so. Which is why I asked for practical examples. AND, the channels opening have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the belief in dependent origination as they open quite well with other practices that have nothing to do with this belief.

A start, but the breath, channels opening, etc. has nothing to do with the dependent origination belief. It is common in many systems. What exactly has the belief done - it has most definitely not, for humanity, done this, "Understanding of Dependent Origination... thereby ending all mental and physical suffering" Unbinding from obsessive thoughts is also common in many systems and not dependent on dependent origination belief.

There is nothing to debate. It doesn't matter what your definition of a teacher is. A teacher either IS or IS NOT. And you posted with a problem and the suggestion to seek a teacher doesn't agree with you. There has been, on this forum, post after post of problems created when a person just starts practicing something they don't understand (and don't come back and say you do understand for if you did you would never had created the post or had the problem) - from a book, yet doesn't acknowledge that the teacher's input is needed. Yes perhaps a large part of that problem is the authors who make it so, but it is perpetuated by the blind leading the blind. You say you are open to ideas but the idea of actually learning, unless it fits into your concept, is nothing you wish to do. A good teacher could instantly help you. At least consider taking the poster's advice of finding a good TCM doctor who has studied these concepts for a very long time.