Ya Mu

A couple of things that you could try if you wish. One is simply walking outside and putting your palms on the Earth. Attempt it often if you can. Another is what I call walk-me-out-in-the-morning-dew qigong. Barefoot, slide your feet across the grass in the early morning.

Well, she did say at first that she felt them. And, it is a fact that they are there and can be felt. And I don't think from what she said that she talked herself into it. Why do you think this? Attachment? hmm Are you attached to asking "are you are attached " by saying this? I didn't think so. I was simply attempting to reassure her that they are indeed there and can be felt and that she DOES have the ability to feel them. And I do think she is awesome and powerful. I think you are too! Matter of fact I KNOW you both are! Kate, don't you love to be talked about as if you weren't here?

SJ, If you ever interacted with some of these folks I do believe you would find most of them to be caring, well practiced, and well studied individuals. You may find you enjoyed the interaction. Sure there are plenty of non-public teachers as well.

ARRRGGG (release of frustration at someone who CAN feel energy and says "imagining") Sorry Kate, you ARE feeling these places. What you feel IS what you feel. You ARE correct, the vortices are all over everywhere. They have a definite feel to them. YOU are awesome & powerful; please do not talk yourself out of it. And IMO it does matter. If you embrace this you will find there is much more to be received at these places than if you don't.

I actually do not think Winn was lying when he said, ..."I consider Kumar Frantzis a good friend and colleague, and we have had deep discussions about this subject." What many do not understand is that the major teachers in the USA have interacted quite a bit at the NQA and other conferences, as well as personally. Most of us kinda know what the other is about. And I think everyone has something good to offer. You would be REALLY surprised who has taken workshops with who.

Wow, you are right on top of things. I was too lazy to look it up. For myself, I am a big believer in balance.

Have you ever gone on a cross country trip doing qigong and hit all the energy vortices? One can get quite a charge by paying attention.

Me either. Especially when one can sit in a room with someone else doing it and totally change the outcome. I guess it has it's merits, though, IF it helps someone.

Thanks for the contribution. Actually I am fairly familiar with Bruce's (I knew him as Kumar) approaches. He has done a lot to promote qigong, neigong, and MA in the USA. We should all be grateful for all the folks who have spent so much time to bring these arts to the west. On a side note, are you familiar with Michael Winn's thoughts on "water & fire" methods? He wrote on this some time ago.

When you refer to breathing are you referring to pulling in energies? In what we practice that is the goal, to pull in from the higher levels. INTENT, as I define it, of course differing from intention, could be looked at as the sword of the higher levels and from my perspective it is inherently linked with our higher level self.

IF anyone cares, I edited my earlier post. I was in a hurry when I made it and now I had time to actually read everything. The edits are in bold.

The Story of Shen Go

I really want to root for your point of view. I sell qigong DVD's. I will share what I have seen. Many folks have learned qigong from my Gift of Tao DVD's. Their reports of experiences are quite thrilling and inspiring. After a year or so of practice some of these folks attend a workshop. What they tell me after they have gone home and practiced the moves more is that the feeling of qi has increased by a large factor (actually an exponential factor). The experiences are deeper and the connection with Spirit is much deeper. The real answer to this is pointed out by mjjbecker in his post. I always say it as "Depends on who you are." In other words, either a person has a certain sensitivity and IMO and experience this sensitivity is dependent on how many lifetimes they have done similar things or gained in knowledge through harmonious acts, or the person does not. This is the energy body we are referring to. So what happens is the person described first, the one with many lifetimes accumulation, can do quite well with a DVD or a book. I have had many of these type of people learn to do Stillness-Movement from my book. Many of these also say they felt a Transmission from the book. Attending a workshop later raises their energy body vibration much higher and boosts the efficiency of the qi because the student is then able to tap into much higher vibrational levels. The second type of person really has difficulty learning from a DVD or book. The jump start that a Teacher can give them is actually totally amazing. Usually, the first type of person described goes on to attend classes anyway because they see the intense value in a particular system and wish to go deeper with it. But for self healing, if this person (first type) practices it with time & effort, he/she can do quite well and never need to see the teacher. If any person wishes to heal others with qi projection, then either type is usually messing up big time by going on his/her own without a teachers input. And like mjjbecker said, the experience and value of the transmission is really something that one has to experience themselves. And Sloppy, it is not about "being amazed" by the Teacher but instead it is about the Teacher's help in raising your own vibrational frequency for yourself Also, from what I have seen, receiving the projection from a high level teacher can cut many years of time needed to reach a higher stage in development, whether they are the first or 2nd type I describe above. edit: in bold

I was asked to repeat it at other occasions. The drama helped

Understand

Where I see the most problems with it is with folks who have not cultivated and start attempting to run qi in an orbit when they have no extra qi to do so. So it gets stuck and stagnant producing any number of problems. From another thread here is an interesting perspective by VcraigP:

I am glad you had no problems with it. So many have. Did you do some other type of cultivation or just have a natural sense of qi before you did the mco? I do think if one already has a storehouse they will have way less problems with this.

Not only I but also several of your friends missed seeing you there. The new Gift of the Tao 2 movements proved to be astonishing, I do believe ALL of us were amazed at what we experienced.

Did not mean to imply you needed validation. What I mean is that it solidifies your own practices to teach them to others. When we teach others it really drives everything home. I have heard it said that we can't truly understand something until we try to teach it to someone else. Don't know if that is fully true but I do know it helps to bring about the greatest understanding.

I think you have a lot of good things to say and have the experience to share with others. Why not consider teaching some of these things to others? There is no better way to solidify the validity of what you know than to teach it to others and help them through the process.

OK. Apologize for the mis-interpretation. Aging is usually much more dependent on genetics than anything else. I am amazed at the folks in their 80's to 90's who continue to eat pork sausage, smoke cigarettes, and continue to work. And these folks practice nothing of the cultivation that we refer to.

You make very good points about this and indeed I REALLY like the description of why/when of not doing the MCO by your teacher. I know sometimes these things boil down to semantics and in the end we are all referring to the same thing. I will attempt clarification of what I mean and have experienced but I do know that many will take exception to this and Pietro will probably object to my use of the word quantum. I teach and was taught from the standpoint of infinite high vibration levels of energy. In my system, we differentiate Visualization and INTENT. Our way of looking at this is that Visualization itself is not a direct method as it involves the linear process of visualizing and utilizes the brain/mind in doing so. Of course the brain has finite measurable wave lengths. We say this process imposes a finite limitation of the amplitude and intensity of the energy because it adds a finite variable, the mind/brain itself. Instead we look at INTENT as a direct manipulation of energy by one's Higher Level Self (not attached to mind and brain) and a quantum level event with a potential for unlimited amplitude and intensity where amplitude could be said to be analogous to Voltage and Intensity could be said analogous to the Current. Both are shaped by INTENT itself. An example is when we project qi for healing. We set INTENT first so as to manifest a certain outcome. Then we DO - not visualize. When applied to cultivation the outcome can be instantaneous, much more powerful, and not limited or misdirected by mind. And indeed I was objecting to the use of the word breathingwhich is so popular by many; it's ties to the visualization process as well as why this is described as "breathing" instead of as "pulling in energy".

SEEING or feeling as it happens is GOOD and in no way interferes with the process.

You misunderstand my intention of the post. I am not attacking the 3 week intensive on breathing.I am sure it was quite fun and breathing is a very good thing. Don't understand why you think that I am attacking this. I have many times said that I like Kumar and have indeed enjoyed interaction with him. He is a great Martial Artist. What my whole point is IMO and experience it is a FACT that any particular visualization method is beginner method compared to actually doing, i.e., a direct manner of doing versus an indirect. Visualization methods of ANY kind are finite and limited compared to direct. So my objection is to the description of breathing that MOST seem to be fixated on. Of course it is a visualization method because folks are visualizing the breath as qi when in fact breath contains qi but is not qi itself. I have no objection to actually breathing air and in fact do it myself all the time. I for one would have a vast problem remaining on the earth if I didn't breathe. But when it comes to energy, I just don't understand the fixation with breathing into organs or parts of the body. If one utilizes energy directly it is far more powerful. AND if one practices methods which are balanced there is generally no need to do this. Why force when it can BE?

Oh, I do understand why we at times may need to send ENERGY to a particular organ, although if one's practice is balancing as in a balanced methodology usually there is simply no need. What I object to here is the constant reference to breathing. We breathe air into our lungs. One can't breath air into an organ. Or if anyone can point to science that shows that air can be breathed into an organ besides the lungs and why this is beneficial I will stand corrected. This attempt by so many to tie in breathing and Qi is a kindergarden method of directing energy through a finite visualization process which is not even close to the efficiency in utilizing energy in a direct manner. Instead, why not just send energy wherever one wants it? Better still, why practice unbalanced methods so that there is a need to do this? If one actually can pull in energy into the body through all the pores of the body, this goes to all the organs as well, invigorating each organ. Absolutely no need to unbalance the body at this point. I would also point to FIZIX's post about what happens when filling lower dan tian. All of this happens in a natural and safe manner. The only time I can really see a need for this directing of energy into specific organs is if a person begins a practice unhealthy and unbalanced and a prescriptive medical qigong exercise for a particular organ is given. I am not attempting to turn this into some type of argument; just attempting to make a subtle point about energy. Of course air has qi in it and of course visualization methods do work, although in a limited manner. I am attempting to point to the difference in efficiency of direct methods versus adding another finite variable (breath in this case) to the equation. I certainly understand your view of the sex practices. LITTLE1: Why the not so subtle jab at a teacher's looks? If you are commenting on Kumar I would love to see the look on your face when you see how fast that (old and large and aged) man can move. Dang, we ALL get older - even you someday. People's conceptions of what a person should look like is really funny. We come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and ages. If you want to disagree with his methods then that is fair game. SANTI: I agree with you 100% about the sex practices. People wholly miss the boat; it is about the ENERGY itself.