Cameron

Yes. I presumed we all understood eachother that of course you are meditating, doing spiritual practice along with any retention stuff. I don't mean to imply Master Nan says save your jing and your going to be an enlightened Buddha. If you want to look at jing like money not ejaculating too much(and I have no idea what that actually means for each individual)would be like not spending your money excessivily and spiritual practices would be like working, or making money. Would you agree with this?(Max or Sean Denty). BTW, I don't necissarily agree with this model. Just trying to have some idea where the different schools represented here are at with these foundation teachings.

This is interesting. Ime not bringing this up out of any desire to create conflict but just to mention. One of our other friends here, Plato and Max, have consistently stated over the last couple years that Master Nan Huai Chin is THE authority on BOTH Taoism and Zen in China. And from what I got from reading his student Bodri's stuff as well as a little of Master Nan's stuff is that jing is a big deal. That your basically not going anywhere spiritually without saving it up. And the path basically is about jing to qi to shen. I think Wu and Tao come after shen but not sure. So your saying this is incorrect? Is sexual energy and jing transforming to qi and all that not a big deal in the system your studying? Ime asking you respectfully, seriously there is no reason not to be able to discuss these things in a friendly manner.

I don't see any problem unless you make it one. I think we can simutaneously see ourselves as smaller systems within larger ones and also see they are all part of one system. Ime not sure which school of Taoism your studying. Some Taoist schools sound almost identical to Buddhist schools to me while others might put more emphasis on the 'esoteric' aspects. But there are Buddhist schools that follow a more esoteric model also. Really need to identify which 'brand' of Taoism. My teachers basically mix traditions. Taoism, Buddhism, Advieta, Native Indian Spirituality, New Age, Tantra. I think that's basically what most people here are doing also for the most part.

Interesting. I think Taoists explain things very, very well and have to admit I prefer there way of explaining over the other paths mentioned. Actually Taoists just describe what is better than anyone else I think. The way they have mapped everything out so thoroughly. But that doesn't mean it works well for everyone so different paths serve a purpouse. I like the direct pointing of Zen also. I mean, the way the questioned is asked you might as well ask "If Lao Tse and Buddha ever met how would they get along?". Or for that matter Lao Tse and Jesus. Or Buddha and Mohammed or whatever. Too bad we can't ever get a Satsang or Dharma dialogues between the spiritual giants of the different traditions. That would really have cleared things up!

I don't really care if it's called Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity,Islam, Zen, Tantra, Dharma, Adveita etc etc as long as it is a path to realizing truth. I am currently of the opinion truth isn't something that can be negotiated. It is what is. Conceptually, I see the different paths as methods or aids to help experience this. Of course, there are some people that still think the spiritual path may lead to completely different destinations. I don't really buy that anymore. If there is oneness and truth then there is oneness and truth and the rest are concepts that help you get through the day or make the ride more enjoyable. Of course, I could be wrong too. Maybe there are many different heavens and dimensions where followers of different paths go. But as far as awakening goes I like to think it is the same experience(perhaps experienced differently by the individual but inherently the same dropping of the ego) just viewed through the filter of different language and cultures. Basically, what Bill Bodri asserts in his work. The spiritual path and stages are the same just use different explanations. But Ime open to here others views too.

Already have those Adya cd's. I Might just get the Tolle retreat from Sounds True.

There is so much confusion surorunding those events. I don't really care who was responsible anymore so much as interested in that aspect of humanity that represents it. Basically it's all ego however you slice it. So my current way of thinking is better to focus on my own awakening and be one person to help the process start to heal than point fingers at those who lust for power and control. If you see all of this as the Self(with big "s") it sort of shifts the perspective on all of this. Ime not quite there yet but apt to think realizing that fully is where my time and energy should go over finger pointing at the worlds latest versions of ego and delusion.

I think I agree with this. But can't say for sure. Ime not entirely sure my concepts of past, present or future are entirely accurate. From the Zen perspective, Master Dogen has written interesting stuff on the nature of time and enlightenment. When I have the time I would like to study it. I think his main work is called Shobogenzo. Obviously Dogen would be pointing to time in the awakened persons perspective not the asleep persons persective. In other words, how things really are not how we conceptually understand them to be. Cam

Yodsterz, I think the post 9-11 months left Americans in a sort of zombie like trance where they felt uncomfortable in strongly opposing anything our government was doing. Pretty unhealthy mentality for any so called democracy. But it's coming around hopefully this will result in a more aware mass public that doesn't just go with the flow of whatever president has to say is going on.

Thanks for the responses. Ian thanks for the post Happy B Day. Will explore this thread more when I have time.

I agree the HT methods like inner smile are good for creating positive emotions or energy though.

Cool explanation. The way I currently view it is what is is big enough to include all these perspectives. It is the mind that makes these distinctions of something being contrary to something else, one teaching opposing another. Basically, it all dissolves in the present moment, or the now, or whatever. It's all just different ways of communicating different teachers use. When Adya says waking up out of the egoic trance might be the same as what Tolle says becoming aware of the vast field of presence. And...prepares for long online philisophical battles to ensue..might I dare say the same as what Buddha called Enlightenment or Lao Tsu called the Tao? Shit, I guess I still do enjoy people clarifying their views on these matters.

I don't know. Do you want me to intellectually analyze why a find something amusing? I don't live life that way. Edit-upon re reading this thread that sounds a little curt .It is an anger thread though! I guess I look at it as people are basically going to do what they are going to do. If people want freedom or peace hopefully they will get it. If they want war and confusion, well, that sucks but life goes on. Unfotunatly, or not, that ugliness is also part of our make up, or conditioning. Tolle is contrary to Lao Tsu? I see them as complementary.

Yes, Tolle is such an excellent pointer. Because when you look at the anger it's not identifying with a 'little me' that is angry. It just shifts the whole perspective. Rather than focus on the little me and 'the story' to bring awareness back to the now and what is actually happening. Which is basically free from the anger. Of course anger might still be there but it is given this tremendous space of allowance to move and express itself without needing to act out in violence instead of being held down and obsessed over by the little me or the egoic confusion. Healing Dao? Glad you got some benefit. Seems to be alot of mixed feelings about those practices. I do have Michael Winn's Fusion course will listen when I have some time.

It's always amusing to hear people speak of dealing with anger management on a mass scale. Actually I do it myself. What Tolle and teachers of his style do that I appreciate is bring all these so called problems back to the now. When you are living life in the present moment, free from what you think should be or is supposed to be or how you want it to be, it is a very different experience. I can only deal with my own realm. I feel that if I can begin to create some peace and harmony in this so called person called "Cameron" that is doing my part to serve the whole. The world is what it is and people will fight whatever wars as they always have. Whether Alexander The Great or Hitler or George Bush or whoever. I think Tolles teachings or Buddhas teachings or Lao Tsus teachings are helpful to anyone but they need to be interested in it and study it themselves. No one is going to force the teachings of Lao Tse down anyones throat.

Hehe. I am going to prescribe watching more Tolle for you..and myself. Untying the knot

Short clip of Tolle which sort of answers my question .Basically points to the ridiculousness of being angry at anyone or even yourself to begin with. Tolle is so awesome I need to make a point to read some of his stuff or get one of his retreats on CD. The fight against violence(LOL).

Have you played Gears of War for 360? It's supposed to be THE game. The video game nerds are saying how it has better graphics than anything on PS3 but that's only because PS3 just came out. But as far as system to system 360 is better now. But I think PS3 will catch up with better games this year.

Final Fantasy Series. Metal Gear Series. I got God of War and will play soon. PS3 games are going to be off the hook!

Ok enough about enlightenment I have a serious question. I am having knee surgery in 2 weeks and will be out of commission for awhile. Should a buy a Nintendo Wii, Sony PS3, or Xbox 360?

edit.

Big issue for men. A koan to last a lifetime. Doesn't sound like any problem exists for you though. I think your probably the best teacher for yourself when it comes to this. People can give you quotes about what Buddha said or what Master Nan said or whatever. But your going to be attracted to what your attacted to and will explore it. One thing Smile said that's interesting to me is how the bliss that you get from culitvation(I guess including retention) is beyond sexual pleasure. I think I remember reading Buddha say how enlightenment is so far beyond all the pleasure in the world if you took all the pleasures of the world and put them together it wouldn't be one percent(or something like that) of the experience of enlightenment. Don't quote me on that. I read that like ten years ago in some book about what Buddha said somewhere. But if your really called to the path of celibacy probably shouldn't force your sexual energy into submission. Should probably just be the natural unfolding of your energy or whatever(as it goes through higher transformations or whatever). But since your clear you want to have sex not an issue. Have fun.

What round do you think Chuck will knock Tito out in? Too bad for Tito he's a great MMA fighter but Chuck will just shut down his game.

Smile(Max) has an interesting way of explaining this. Something about how you want to be free from lustful thoughts and have a more "innocent" sexual energy that is easy to transform(If you read Bodri or Master Nan they talk about Jing to Chi to Shen transformations that happen). I think Master Nan(Bodri's teacher) says the REAL "100 Days" practice is not just refrain from sex but refrain from lustful thoughts. If you live in a major city or anywhere near civilization this is pretty much impossible. And like you said doesn't interest you anyway. I would say practice from where you are at. Accept yourself with all your desires and needs and bring your cultivation into it and look at it all as a learning process. But I think Smile might be able to explain the philosophy behind the jing to qi to shen transformation if you want to ask him.

They announced it last night. He is coming to UFC next year. So unless Fedor is coming to UFC they probably arent fighting anytime soon.