Cameron

I always thought the Greek Gods were, well...fun. Zeus, God of thunder, Aries God of war, Hermes the messanger, Aphrodite Goddess of love. They partied and drank and sang songs and had battles on Mt Olympus and were basically just more powerful versions of humans. Actually they did have a nice cosmology that was sort of Taoist. Mother Earth, Gaia, looked up and fell in love with Father Sky(forgot the Greek name) and they gave birth to all the Gods. Seems that is how it must have went down in one way shape or form. Whether Father Sky is an actual Heavenly father or Aliens or whatever is another subject.

Sean, it's hard to talk about that Intellectually, I like to think there is an aspect of ourselves that is already deeply connected to the source, God, Tao whatever concepts/language but I think it is more as the totality of nature/spirit that is beyond words and concepts. To think of it as a being would be very narrow in my view and sort of like trying to pinpoint something that can't be bogged down. Like Ken Cohen told Yael in her inteverview it is the "Everywhere Tao". If the Tao is everywwhere..inside your body, your breath, the mountains and rivers, cities and people, how can I pinpoint a seperate "God". Of course, your talking about "talking to God" but I am not sure when I have a concersation with you or my friends or some random person that is not "God" manifest! If everything is qi, then we are just a variation of the Qi that fills the universe. Actually, I would say that would be my best answer at this point. Sometimes I just look at the stars at night or the sun shining and can feel a silent strength. A force of love and compassion that literally fills the universe with it's light. A communication happens but I would almost say it is more on the qi or shen level than an intelelctual conversation in the english language or whatever. It seems to move deeper into the realms of intent and deep emotion and less language like you talk to people with..a kind of contrived expression we use to live our life out of neccissity.

Ken Cohen uses the terms personal qi and transpersonal qi. Personal qi is what we inherited from our parents .Our inborn constition. This we don't have much control over. Transpersonal qi is what we can build through dedicated practice .We learn to absorb more energy from nature and the universe. Food and breath are important. Sexual energy as well. Michael Winn said sexual energy is like a kind of food to Taoists. Sexual energy(jing) can be developed through quiet meditation and supposedly taking jing tonics also. Some say it can be devleoped through Tantra/sexual qigong but that requires alot of patience and discipline though probably worth it.

What Neimad said...

My favorite interpretation of this aspect I have found so far is in Ken Cohen's book Honoring The Medicine. Not sure if we are talking about the same thing but I like the terms Great Spirit or Great Mystery. Lots of cool stuff in there about comminucating with it. Cam

IMO yes, you have do training. But the training(IMO) is mostly a process of the body and mind unlearning. Not unlike what Scott Sonnon talks about. Just like Ken said in that interview you did with him you can get the clarity through the body or through the mind or vice versa. But what I am getting at is the real fruits(IMO) are available right now but it is too difficult to see it. Adyashanti says he had to do zazen for 15 years only to realize he never had to do zazen at all. But at the end of the day we each have to go through whatever we have to go through..our unique paths that lead wherever.

Yeal your right and you really don't need any of it. Truth be told everything is available this very moment. The opportunity to get enlightened(or whatever terminology your using) needs no special teaching or secret translations. I like Adyashanti's view that a true spiritual teachers goal is to put himself out of business as fast possible. To have the student rise to the same level of consciousness as the teacher(or higher) as fast as possible without holding anything back. Many Zen masters would burn up all there so called sacred books and teachings upon enlightenment. You cannot bottle the truth! That said I'll probably buy Li's translation before too long(I have purchased his books before) since I am a big fan of TTC. To your natural innate virtue which is niether created or destroyed, Cameron

It hasn't rained in Phx for like 8 months. I didn't really give a shit but everyone was saying how it sucked we werent getting rain. Last night I sent out the intention for it to rain and it rained all night long into the morning like I have never seen here. Maybe I am really powerful or someone upstairs heard my wish or I was just lucky. Pretty cool if i had something to do with it

Nice post Thaddeus. I think there is plenty to learn from eachother if we all just mellow out a bit. If there is anything that needs subtraction I think it is the arrogance that ones self is always right and others are wrong. There is something about opening up to others honestly and without judging that is very powerful and I think an essential first step to reaching truth.

niether addition nor subtraction IMO(which still needs heavy clarification..)

I was on Li Jiong's discussion list and was interested in his translation of TTC months ago. I am excited to see him here and please don't critisize people with decades of experience on here in there first few posts. If you don't want to buy his translations don't. Everyone has a right to make a living and you have a right to decline buying it. It would be nice to eventually get past all the judgements and critisizm that has been a hallmark of the Taoist online communications since it's inception. I hope to do my little part in allowing everyone the space and freedom to express themselves without my egotistical judgements of who they may or may not be.

Furey's training reccomendation to Saddam Hussein http://www.mattfurey.com/saddam_pictures052105.html You created this thread just to mess up my 1 month attempt at not posting, didn't you?

Welcome!!!!! *still taking a month off from posting*

I watched some of the DVD. Definetly can't do any of it until I am hopefully cleared next week. Almost every excercise involves squatting. It looks like an abbreviated version of body flow to me. Basically a refinement of ealier work like intuflow. I was interested in how he makes a big deal about the 14-18 minute practice time being so important to the body.

I would also like to add the times in my life I felt I was not following the path was when I resisted or rejected what was coming to me. Like the universe gives you on a silver platter exactly what you thought you wanted and then when the moment and time arises you hesitate, withdraw, change your mind etc etc. So, for me, part of the challenge is not just knowing what you want or being open to knowing what you want, but then having the courage to step up when it's time and take it. This latter challenge has really been my test. Developing the courage to 'step up' when what you want or being open to whatever and then the universe shows you. To live without this hesitation, fear(perhaps fear reactivity) and ego based trauma that prevents freedom of spirit to choose is my goal.

Big up to Tehran! Represent! LOL. http://www.zirzamin.se/video/trippe-maa.wmv

Fedor is a stud but I will choose this every time.

I feel very blessed since I can work in my family business and basically always had that there to fall back on. I will probably get involved in other business ventures as time, money and opportunities present themselves. Really, to tell the truth, my will or ego was not involved in any of my life career/work decisions. Every job I had in the last 10 years just sort of happened and I see, atleast at an unconsious level, how everything I have done has been helpful to my work now. The two trains of thought in spiritual practice-whether to guide the process or allow the process to happen-is basically the same in everyday life affairs I think. You can either get really involved with the will-and my guess is many if not most very successful people followed this path. They had a vision, a goal, a strong ambition of some sort and kept focused on what they wanted and accomplished it. Or the allow everything to happen naturally path-which has defiently been my path so far in life- basically just embrace what comes to you. Not really involve the will so much as be awake-LISTEN- to subtle or not so subtle opportunities that may present themselves and flow with it. I think you can sort of intuitively gather which boat your in, whether opportunities arise more when your just accepting and open to them or you need to really make things happen. I don't have any judgement probably both are good or work well depending on the individual and there stage in life. Just words...

LOL....

I have started upping the vitamins and minerals myself and do not follow a low carb diet. If your down let's try the warrior diet together for a month. We can call eachother for support if we ever feel like eating before dinner. Mike Mahler says if you work out in the morning you can still follow the WD just have a high protien high fat(good fat) shake after your morning workout and fast for the rest of the day until dinner(Which should be a feast!).

An old post from Steve Maxwell on DD. He doesn't ever eat anything before 4:30 PM and is in phenomensal shape. http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/75069/

I havent eaten breakfast in years and look at me!! *looks down at beer belly and sobs*

Though jing tonics are really,really,really,really good if your not doing qigong and/or retention

Tao in a Bottle is a shen stabilizing formula Shou Wu is a jing tonic. "Tao" is my favorite if I only took one of his products that would be it. Also, I think regular qigong practice takes care of alot of the jing and qi develoment(along with meditation). Jing tonics are probably less and less necissary if you practice cultivation/do retention etc whereas Tao I find to be very helpful toe very day life awareness, stress reduction etc.