Cameron

Yup, I am going to take your word over a guy many people consider THE authority on tonic herbalism for like the last 30 years. I am not even going to attempt to defend Ron Teeguarden or the quality and integrity of his products.

I agree with Craig. The herbs you deal in are what Tonic herbalists refer to as inferior herbs. They are used to treat a problem. Tonic herbalism is totally different. These herbs have been used for thousands of years by the Chinese and Taoists to nurture health and spiritual development . They are completely safe and can be used by anyone. They nourish the 3 treasures(jing, qi, shen). It is referred to as 'superior herbalism'. If you want to know more I would suggest reading Ron Teeguarden's book " The Ancient Secret of Chinese Tonic Herbs". He is probably the most well known tonic herbalist in America and has made the best quality products available to anyone. Tao in a Bottle is IMO his greatest commerical product but they are all awesome and totally safe.

edited I wrote some stuff but don't even want to 'go there'. Follow your own path I guess.

I love drinking green tea but even the best tea like what we got at seven cups does not come close to the effect of taking Tao in a Bottle(for me). But I don't want to hype it anymore since one person who tried it here said they got no benefits from it. Will wait to here for some fdedback from Yoda if it works as well for others as it does for me.

True meditation has no direction, goals, or method. All methods aim at achieving a certain state of mind. All states are limited, impermanent, and conditioned. Fascination with states leads only to bondage and dependency. True meditation is abidance as primordial consciousness. True meditation appears in consciousness spontaneously when awareness is not fixated on objects of perception. When you first start to meditate, you notice that awareness is always focused on some object: on thoughts, bodily sensations, emotions, memories, sounds, etc. This is because the mind is conditioned to focus and contract upon objects. Then the mind compulsively interprets what it is aware of(the object) in a mechanical and distorted way. It begins to draw conclusions and make assumptions according to past conditioning. In true meditation all objects are left to their natural functioning. This means that no effort should be made to manipulate or suppress any object of awareness. In true meditation the emphasis is on being awareness; not of being aware of objects but of resting as primordial awareness itself. Primordial awareness(conscioiusness) is the source in which all objects arise and subside. As you gently relax into awareness, into listening, the minds's compulsive attraction around objects will fade. Silence of being will come more clearly into consciousness as a welcoming to rest and abide. An attitude of open receptivity, free of any goal or anticipation, will facilitate the presence of silence and stillness to be revealed as your natural condition. Silence and stillness are not states and therefore cannot be produced or created. Silence is the non-state in which all states arise and subside. Silence, stillness, and awareness are not states and can never be percieved in their totality as objects. Silence is itself the eternall witness without form or attributes. As you rest more profoundly as the witness, all objects take on their natural functionality, and awareness becomes free of the mind's compulsive contractions and identifications, and returns to it's natural non-state of Presence. The simple yet profound question " Who am I?" can then reveal one's self not to be the endless tyranny of the ego-personality, but objectless Freedom of Being-Primordial Consciousness in which all states and all objects come and go as manifestations of the Eternal Unborn Self that YOU ARE. - Adyashanti

Yeah only reason I am so late is no work this week. I'll get it out to you closer to Christmas I am sending you some other stuff too(I told you about on the phone). Keep representin' pedecures for the ladies..

Cool. I really want you to check out these retreat DVD's so send me your address pm and I will hook you up as a Christmas gift. They are really good. One of things he says is I hope you didn't come here to solve problems. This is not a good place to solve problems. You may realize there isn't any problem to begin with and that may solve the problem though. Liked that alot.

I call for BAN! Talk about a teaze!

Cool. Ken Cohen breaks this down perfectly IMO in his book. He writes there are two types of meditation in Qigong. Basically ru jing(Sitting and forgetting) and cun si(visualization and concentration). He does say ru jing is more important but both are aspects of cultivation and energy work. I like this approach best. People like Nan Hua Chin and Adyashanti just stress emptiness practice to the point that more active meditations are basically a waste of time. Nan Hua and Bodri are most critiical of the those practices Adya just sort of nicely implies it is a waste of time but if you want to do it it's cool. Cohen says niether is a waste of time both are awesome and both are good to do. I think the problem that arose is because some of the HT crowd seem to emphasize the active stuff more(which is not any problem IMO) but when you look deeper even Winn and Chia say the inner smile is the most important practice . The smile it seems to me is just a slightly more active version of ru jing. though i do find Adyashanti's view that people think they can control the process to enlightenment are in error to be interesting. And I am not discrediting this view just not ready to jump ship on qigong.

Why don't you do some RMax retreats/seminars or become a certified instructor? You can teach the wealthy housewives of the homes you sell intu flow and prasara yoga whatever. Then make a DVD which combines CST with Qigong and sell it or open your own gym/studio in North Carolina. Yoda Yoga!

You need to be as balanced and calm as can be when you live on an island of 125,000,000. I have a feeling my childhood would have gone alot smoother if people were putting Tao in a Bottle in my ice cream. Seriusly they should try giving it to kids with ADD it probably works much better than that ritalin garbage(and is healthier).

People.. I get the impression from some of you that you think this is my complete beleif of what spiritual practice is..the end all be all. I don't. I put up the writings of a teacher. I never said this is my beleif and I don't think you should ever do active meditations or use intention ever. If you read my other stuff you would know I do Qigong which is mostly about using intent, special postures or visualizations to get things going with your qi. I personally think both are great and do both. Jesus, from now on I'll put a disclaimer whenever I post something someone wrote saying the following may not be the opinion of Cameron. This is not directed at eveyone but noticed some were saying your definition of meditation as not using intent or having goals ever..it's Adyashanti's definition not mine. I am not at the level of experience to really say I have an opnion of what meditation should be for the rest of humanity and doubt I ever will be.

Do you consider Taoist Internal Alchemy, which has the goal of immortality, as a type of magikal practice? What about Hermes Trismegustus he seems to be a central character of Western occult and magik. Do you think these practices have a common root or different cultures developed there own magik on there own?

Just damn. http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1133778015/...e_Russian_Brawl

My critique of "Magik" is not really a critique so much as I don't know much about it.

Good deal. It would be cool if we could get to the point where every kind of path is represented here, Taoist, Buddhist, Shamanism, Magik, New Age, etc. If you care to get a little deeper into what exactly Magik is and what benefits you have gotten from it, your teachers, practices etc. would be helpful and educational for those of us who have mostly left those practces alone.

I blame the pain meds.

Edited Congrats to Scott Now if he can get a DVD of Andre Arlovski, current UFC heavyweight champ, doing a clubbell workout I would definetly buy that.

Cant wait to read what happens with little YES and big old GO! Huh?

Sounds fun. Now since you have decided to join the fun maybe we can have some interesting conversation between emotionally balanced, polite individuals who aren't going to flame eachother if they disagree Adyashanti says he has never met a person who guides the process(meditation) that is anywhere near the level of enlightenment of those who trust the process( "Allow everything to be as it is"). I tried to stimulate some helpful debate about this on HT board but think it boiled down to two or three intellectuals battling for who was more clever. I am more interested in a heart centered approach to spirituality not endless word games. So I would be interested if you would like to share why you think the Taoist Alchemy practices which atleast in large part guide or initiate a process instead of " Allowing everything to be as it is" are superior or offer things rather than just fall into a path of manipulation or playing games with qi. I don't even really have any judgement with playing games with qi I do it all the time but would like to open this discussion up again if you want. Maybe create another thread if you would like to discuss.

He does get into detail. This is one small excerpt from a 7 1/2 hour, 6 CD retreat. He covers his own path to awakening and the different " A to B" processes that came up for him. Along with many, many helpful instructions for a beginner.

Welcome. Nice to have some perspective of one who has gone more deeply into Taoist Alchemy. I am more on the don't force things to happen trip at the moment but my personality prevents me from getting too dogmatic about anything and I like getting a different take on things. My guess is, as stated in the I Ching(I think) it is not merely about not guiding or guding but knowing when to guide and when to do nothing. That whole yin and yang thing..

Different modalities work for different body types it is not a one size fits all situation. The Great Gama of India was supposedly untouchable in his day and got his conditioning with bodyweight excercises and Indian Clubs. Andre Arlovski, the current UFC heavyweight champion supposedly trains with Clubbells. But then you have someone like Fedor, heavyweight champion of Pride and considered by far the best in the world, who does no weight training and gets all his conditioning through sparring, running and basically just by practicing his art. Sonnon is into Sambo I think(Fedor is the world Sambo champion) and finds the clubbells and stuff useful while the world champion of his art doesn't use them. I don't think if I used clubbells for 100 years I would be able to compete with Fedor. When I get better I'll train exclusively with kettlebells for a few months and Sean can do clubbells and I'll try to make my way to Oakland(or he can come to Phoenix) and we will roll together and settle which is the better tool

Do what works for you. I didn't write this it is the writing of Adyashanti. A teacher from Northern California who people are calling an enlightened being. If you think you know better by all means stick to what works.