Cameron

I am late in the game on this so no worries if it doesn't make the cut. I just have one question. Have these practices made you a happier person?

Well, it's 11-11-11 already here in China anyways

Haha, As soon as I wrote that I thought some people might think I meant suprised as in the way you are thinking. But no, I mean suprised in that I would find it hard to belive after all these threads and discussions anyone would not be aware of how to find out more about Max! hehe Ok, good luck to everyone and all that. ps. If any Taobums in China ever want to get together send me a pm! I would love to learn more about different perspectives of authentic Chinese Taoism. Cam

Suprisingly, I have gotten messages asking where to get more information on Kunlun. Max's site is primordialalchemist.com Also, I feel the need to say something. It's fine to have strong opinions about teachers. I like to tell my students here in Asia not to be robots but think for yourself! Max has always expressed this to me. So much so I would be fine disagreeing with him about something. I don't take every word my teacher says as the word of God. But as a practitioner and someone who is trying to improve myself I think you can still always conduct yourself in a respectful, courteous way. Yes, we fail sometimes. Just look around at posts here on Taobums and you can see basic good manners are often lacking. But I think it's the intention behind it that's important. As I heard someone say 'pay attention not to what people say but what they do', Best wishes, Cameron

I have interacted with both of them. Actually it is a very deep question. One I have pondered quite a bit myself. I'll say what I can about it. Hopefully it is helpful. This will be my last post on Taobums. My experience with Max. What I was told is his main teacher is a Maoshan Master of a different lineage then Jenny's. It is from this teacher who Max learned Red Phoenix as well as other things. When Max learned spontaneous qigong from Jenny he had already gone very, very deep into the Maoshan arts from his main teacher. Thus he was already well along in that lineage but had a deep connection to Sifu Jenny as well. My understanding is Max took what he learned from his Maoshan Sifu and combined it with the spontaneous he learned from Jenny and he had his great attainment from that. Basically what Max told me in no uncertain terms when I first met him was that combining "Kunlun" with Red Phoenix you can attain Gold Dragon Body. So if that attainment and Max's understandings about combining these different practices together interests you then he is the teacher to see. It is more of an experimental path. Sifu Jenny comes from an unbroken lineage of Maoshan teachers who taught the spontaneous qigong. She also has very strong Buddhist influences. She is a wonderful teacher. Perhaps if I hadn't met Max before I met her and already was well along the path he shared I would have been more open to her perspective. In any case she is an awesome teacher. She taught me Yigong("Kunlun") in person on the day that her father died. I walked into class and she looked at us all in the eyes and told us "My father died today". Then we practiced together. It was only one weekend workshop I did with Jenny but even if I never see her again I feel blessed to have met such an amazing person. Strictly speaking, I am more aligned with Max and have recieved several transmissions from him. So I consider him my main teacher. However, I would strongly urge anyone who is interested to check out both carefully. They are both awesome but imo follow different philosophies and styles. So you should use your own intuition to guide you to who is is the best teacher for you. Don't waste your time or merit on here speaking critically about teachers who frankly are both light years beyond any of us. Best wishes and take care, Cameron

Enjoy

Yes but I think its best not to conceptualize it too much. It's a very 'direct experience' oriented system. When talking about the alchemical side of things Max has always said opening the heart is a big part of the process. Also, a final note on this and I will be logging off here foe awhile. If your doing Kunlun on your own before seeing Max please take your time and ease into it. Max suggested to me when I spoke with him recently to practice not more then 4 times a week. And I have been at it for 4 years. Your nervous system needs time to adjust when practicing Kunlun. I would say if your practicing on your own from the book a couple times a week would be enough. And then see how you feel. If you see Max then you will learn and recieve the Red Phoenix and that adds another dimension to it. Or, if you end up studying with another teacher who shares similar methods have fun and see where that takes you Cheers!

Yes, it comes from Red Phoenix. To use an example, I didn't practice the spontaneous qigong method at all for about a month after I met Max. Because it took me atleast that time(several months really) to digest the Red Phoenix transmission. The first level of Red Phoenix opens the dormant upper tan tien. The second is all about the downward flow. I have a feeling of cool, magnetic downward flow(both upward from level 1 and downward from level 2 actually) pretty much all the time. From this deep level of moving into and opening your tan tiens you dissolve and let go of blocks. As Max says it's mostly about releasing the mind. The path often feels like a 'no path' to me. Erasing and removing whatever obstructions exist. It's also tremendously healing. You should see Max in the States or Kan San in Japan for the transmission.

I just call Kunlun a water path since that is the way Max describes it. But from my experience of course both Kan and Li are involved. I guess it would just be the overall orientation of the system and how you move through blocks. Cheers!

Thanks again! Its interesting to hear about other systems but I will stick with the Kunlun path Max has shared with me and see where it leads me

Cool, thanks so much for the feedback. Would you call what you learned from Master Wang a water path like Kunlun(top down) or a fire path(down up)? Or does that system play by different rules?

Good stuff Max also does Skype btw. I was able to do so with him recently. Since Jenny was brought up, it has been mentioned before but just to repeat they do teach the practice differently. They are not the same system. but I feel I did get great benefit in doing Jenny's workshop. She is a great person. For me, Max is a shaman. His teachings can be a bit "wild" at times. That is his style. But I can see how that stlye would not work for everyone. I can clearly see that. So you should try the practice on your own and feel deeply who you want to study with. I don't think this issue should just be glossed over. Although they may have similarities Sifu Jenny and Max do teach different systems. That doesn't mean they wouldn't complement each other however. Taomeow, out of curiosity, how often do you still practice Kunlun? Do you find it mixes well with practices you learned from your other teachers. And not to go completely off topic are you practicing what you learned from Master Wang Liping? Cam

I like the format used in BJJ. You drill the technique carefully then do live sparring where your opponent resists you. My Kung Fu teacher hasn't sparred with me yet as I don't know shit and just holding postures and doing Xingyi 5 element forms is enough(I really like Xingyi btw). Writing from Xi'an!!

Off to Xian and Hua Shan tomorrow. Talk to you guys again in a couple weeks.

Yes, the other dimension to this is developing a realationship with an authentic Master. Your teacher wanted you to try some new stuff so you went I suspect about 99% of the training at my level will be about just showing up and practicing what I am told. Just getting a good, solid level of any of the big 3 internal styles over this next year would be time well spent for me.

Thank you. We all have our own unique path and challenges to face. I think the more I know the more I know I don't know. So relaxing and letting our own understanding develop while not forcing our understanding on others is important. Perhaps finding the right spiritual practice or teacher is not unlike trying to find a good partner. Someone who might be great match for one person might not for another. One size doesn't fit all. We should develop compassion and see from a wider view. I think I have said all I will say here on this subject again. Cameron

That's how it is taught at my school in Beijing. The Master is profficient in all 3(actually he has his own style of them apparently and sort of fuses them together) But the teacher(s)naturally let you decide which of them to focus on with some suggestions. Now that I have decided on Xingyi I suspect I will focus on that mostly for thenext 6 months while occasionally trying out Tai Chi or Bagua. Out of curiosity how many of you have learned all 3? Or do you mostly focus on Tai Chi?

It's interesting to really feel and differentiate the different types of strength. For the past couple years I focused mostly on the "external" with RKC training. You get very strong doing all over compound movements like swings, snatches, turkish get ups etc to me this type of strength still definetly has it's place. But being here in China as well as reading some of these threads has really motivated me to devote the next year to internal training. I have some backround in it with 3 years of Aikido. It was suggested to me by my American teacher to learn Bagua but my Chinese teacher has said better focus on Xingyi first. Maybe the combination of me losing the Bagua book he gave me combined with his vibing me out lol. In any case I will be doing my Santi Xingyi stance and 5 element forms for awhile probably. Get rooted

I have a weakness for K Pop

Money is how our modern world works. It is the system that we human beings have agreed upon to use on Earth to exchange our goods and services. I am about to pay almost half of my pay for 1 month to learn from authentic internal martial arts master here in Beijing. I consider this a worthwhile investment. As well as a way to show the teacher(s) I am a serious student. Best, Cameron

Hi Bums! So I have been in Beijing for 3 weeks. I really like it! I taught in Korea for 2 1/2 years but am really fond of my Chinese students. It's so interesting living here there is this amazing fusion of the old and the new. And China is clearly trying to find it's identity and role for the next generation. I am pretty excited to study Wushu. I'll drop in on my first class tomorrow. Tai Chi, Xing Yi and Baugua all taught by high level teachers in a Chinese courtyard! I also love to hike and scaled the Great Wall last weekend. Anyway, just wanted to pop in and connect with the Bums. Is anyone else living in China btw? Cam ps. Has anyone heard from or know how Yoda is doing? I really miss that guy!

Awesome thanks for the feedback

In any case I wish him the best. I'll send out good intentions to the Taobums from Hua Shan next week

My students in Korea and China have been some of my best teachers

That's not a big deal really. If he is getting results from that system that's the important thing. So I checked out both the local BJJ place and the internal MA place. BJJ looks fun but I think I will go with the internal(Bagua, Tai Chi and Xingyi). It will be interesting to see how the systems and qigong I learn here mix with Max's Kunlun stuff. Max suggested to me that I would get the most out of Bagua but will go with the flow and see what my Chinese teacher suggests. Though he did immedietly give me a book on Bagua free of charge upon first meeting(which I subsequently lost somewhere). Will be embarassing asking for another copy! Xian and Hua Shan next week!!