Cameron

Hi guys, I noticed some talk going on regarding Kunlun Nei Gung. The school of one of my dear teachers Max Christensen. I don't have any opinion on the experience of others-their experience is their experience-but would like to share some of my thoughts on the subject. I think it might be good timing since it is exactly four years ago since I took my first workshop with Max. Firstly-if your interested in studying this practice I would reccommend getting the book and just doing it on your own for awhile. It is a very powerful method. The first level of Kunlun alone is probably enough to keep you interested for awhile. I have shared the basic Kunlun practice with people and found some people "get it" right away while others don't. So just try it out and see. Have fun with it. Life is about being joyful and livng in the present moment. Kunlun is the fastest practice I have found to help get you there. After that, spending time in nature and other forms of practice are more wonderful. Regarding negativity surrounding Kunlun-after doing the practice for 4 years I have more energy, am more fit and am a much happier person. I don't buy any of the stories regarding negative entities deriving from the Kunlun practice. Any of the lineage masters of "Kunlun"(tecnically the Maoshan Taoist lineage)would existto help you in awakening imo. I haven't really experienced anything of the sort with spirits and replitillian beings or whatever. Yes, the highest Kunlun Masters-such as Max, Kan and even Sifu Jenny Lamb-all say they have had exeriences of this sort with higher beings not of this dimension. But they are exceptions I think not the norm. If your interested listen to Kan and Sifu Jenny Lamb's interviews here http://thehundredthmonkeyradio.com/dr-joseph-marra.html Great online radio show where you can hear from great teachers like Kan and vibe them out yourself. Kan San is Max's top student and Sifu Jenny is a wonderful teacher who taught spontaneous qigong(Kunlun method) to Max. Max refined his understanding of the the practice combining it with Red Phoenix. My opinion regarding this question about Red Phoenix-get it live from Max. Red Phoenix is a very high level yet simple practice. The level of sophistication and mastery Max has shown to me with the Red Phoenix practice is mind boggling. If you really want to learn Red Phoenix get it from Max himself. To ask others online to explain it to you is not giving it justice. There truly is a high level of skill involved with giving the transmission which is beyond me but Max is a Master of. Max has one of the biggest hearts of any human I know. Is he perfect? No. But he is like a living treasure of Taoist practices and to call him dangerous or a bad teacher in unfair imo. The best advice I can give is do the basic Kunlun method on your own for awhile. Listen to the interviews of Kan San and Sifu Jenny Lamb on the link I gave. And see who you resonate with to teach you deeper things. If your interested in another teacher like Sifu Chris Matsuo great. He seems like a great guy. I live in China now and if the opportunity to meet another teacher of Max or Jenny's caliber is poosible great. It's always great to meet new teachers if they are helpful. My feeling since meeting Max is to develop more love, openness and compassion for people. Nothing of the sort of bad intention some on here seem to feel. In any case, go with love, may your path be blessed. Cameron

How do you all deal with the energy of anger? I like what Eckart Tolle says about how you can even let anger be as it is and create a space and stillness around it. It is really some pretty powerful qi when it comes up! Also, I have been thinking about what Bill Bodri has written that when you cultivate and the qi in the body builds up it's easier to get angry(atleast at the beginning stages?) since the qi is right below the surface. I have a feeling once the beginning stages of cultivation are moved through, ones qi channels are opened up and the mind has attained some peace and quiet during all activities not just meditation that would solve the problem but would be interested to here how people manage or deal with these strong emotions these days. Cam

As I wrote about in my introduction I started with zen and then Ken Cohen's Chi Kung. It's basically Zen qigong. Sitting, Standing meditation..with some visualisations and absorbing qi from the universe(Sun , moon stars etc.) The main thing Cohen seems to do is you do a qigong meditation and then you do Emptiness meditation to sort of digest all the qi. Like you do a Big Dipper meditation where you visualize your body filled with purple light and travel to the big dipper and absorb it's Qi. Then come back to stillness and emptiness afterwards. One thing I distinctly remember from studying with Winn in his fundamentals class is the HT version of this is defiently the inner smile. Where Cohen returns constantly to emptiness and quiet/non discriminating awareness, HT(or atleast Winn) constantly goes back to the inner smile. You do Fusion, or the orbit or whatever, then go back to the smile. There is the formal smile practice where you smile down the "3 lines" and all throught the body then the non focused smile practice where your just smiling. Your holding a higher vibration and accepting everything. Winn does VERY LITTLE emptiness practice and I think his idea is the smile is better than emptiness practice. It covers the benefits of emptiness practice but adds more..the Taoist energy aspect. So, the question becomes..where is Emptiness practice not covered in the smile and if it is totally covered why even bother with emptiness practice? master the smile and the basics and just sit in a Yin, recpetive smiling state. Or does emptiness practice truly cover stuff not covered with the Taosit inner smile?

I am done talking about the mystique and amazing abilities attributed to Lama Dorje. Time to talk about the practice. So, I started practicing Kunlun Level 1 yesterday from the book. My guess is most people interested in Lama Dorje from Tao Bums will check out the book first. So will be cool to have a thread where we can all discuss our experiences with the practice. Of course, if you are doing(or already did) the workshop definetly give feedback if you like. And of course any feedback from Mantra68 would be awesome. So..Kunlun level 1 is very simple it seems. It has 3 stages from what I can tell. You start with a simple visualization where you see yourself floating on a white lotus in the middle of a cloudless sky. Above, under alla round you is cloudless sky. Then you imagine white lite all around you and breathe white light into yourself and breathe out toxic energies. The second stage is where things get interesting. You hold you arms a special way and your feet a special way. The book says to hold this position for 10 minutes then if things don't start happening spontaneously your either supposed to move or stop and sit quietly. I am actually not clear about this so if Mantra68 or someone could maybe clarify this. So..I held the position for about 20 minutes this morning. After the first 10 minutes my legs started shaking. I have done standing meditation(zhan zhuang) and experiences shaking limbs and stuff before but this was different. my right leg started jumping up and down very fast. It was sort of interesting to watch my leg just bouncing up and down. My upper body and arms remained pretty still. No real noticeable movement in the upper body. Then after a few more minutes my other leg started shaking. So both my legs were going up and down very fast. I am not clear about the instructions from the book. Your either supposed to hold this posture for 1 hour or if nothing happens after 10 minutes(I held it for 20) your supposed to stop. If someone who knows could maybe clarify. the third stage is sitting in silence for 20 minutes. Just sitting quietly with hands over the navel. pretty simple. Nothing special to report here. Though Max says that this 20 minutes at the end of sitting quietly is the most important part.

New Interview with Max. Good stuff. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/awakeninginaustin/2012/09/14/the-kunlun-system-of-awakening

I don't know that I can say anything that would be helpful or useful here. I saw Kan San in Tokyo several months ago and had a good time. All I have is my own experience. Even my teachers, Max, Kan etc I don't blindly follow whatever they say. My impression is I am really my own best teacher in regards to Kunlun. I value my own judgements about what is balanced and correct for my path above anyone elses. That's not to say don't listen. But it's your path. Regarding the issue that Trunk has brought up. I think if I had one critisizm about the way Kunlun was initially presented years ago is that it probably would have been good to have had more of a screening process for students. I think it was Chris's enthusiasm for getting the practice out there, which I appreciate in regards to my own life, that might have missed the screening process to see if the practice was "balanced" for every individual student at those seminars. A tall order but it would have probably been the responsible thing to do. I think Chris is a great guy and he and Max let me know where they stood on things from the start but for that 1% or 5% or whatever it is of students who's energy or mind didn't jive well with Kunlun, perhaps their personal or energetic issues in regards to this particular lineage energy were overlooked. There were many people coming to those seminars. I wouldn't expect Max to be able to handle each and every individual students every energetic/emotional/karmic issue. But I think Max tried his best. Interestingly, it sounds like Max is taking more time to let students develop on there own now and not just giving the transmission that I was given and others were given immedietly. Kan said something similar when I saw him about transmission. Though I was given another transmission in Japan. It's really beyond the scope of my understanding as to why or why not some people have a good or bad experience with Kunlun. I think it can be a very quick and intense practice. Some students really embrace the quick and intense speed at which Kunlun reveals to you, well..truth..and why some freak out. Is that freaking out wrong or bad? I don't think so. Again, in those instances, perhaps more initial "screening" of people may have been good. Anyway, looking forward to reading the new book. I am 100% certain Kunlun has done far more good in peoples lives then bad. I consider it a very safe but no doubt a very, very powerful system of awakening to Tao. The fact that this system was and is taught publically still amazes me. And I am proud to have been a part of it. ps. I am getting pm's which I don't answer here. I don't have anything to say in regards to peoples personal practice or advice. I am not a facilitator in the Kunlun System. I prefer to just do my practice and leave the teachers to answer your questions. Or buy the new book if you like. I haven't read it yet but I suspect that would be the best place to start. Cam

It's truly humbling seeing a real internal martial artist in action. I was walking in the early morning a few months ago saw a Bagua Master. He was walking in front of me and suddenly went into his Bagua form so spontaneously and effortlessly it was mind blowing. His movement was like Like something out of the Matrix movie but better

From his blog. Somehow I think Yoda will be the one to try it... Exercising in the Nude A number of old-time physical fitness courses recommended exercising with as few clothes on as possible. Some even said to exercise in the RAW. This is all well and good, provided you don't take it to your local park or gymnasium. And if you must take the old-time advice to extremes, then go to a nude beach - but understand up front that you may be disappointed - of course that's assuming you're there to look at more bodies than your own. Most of the people on nude beaches SHOULD be wearing clothes. My wife and I checked one out in California about 11 years ago - mostly out of curiosity - and it was absolutely grotesque. We left as soon as we got there. As for your home, the benefits of training naked (or almost naked) are many. Number one, you get to see more of your body and as you look at your body you'll become more conscious of areas you'd like to improve. Number two, because your skin is the largest eliminative organ on the body, it's good to let it breathe freely from time to time. If you're going to train nude or in a pair of briefs, I suggest you throw a towel on the floor and lie your undressed body on the floor to begin bridging. Then do some Hindu pushups, or v-ups, or table-makers - or any of the many extraordinary exercises featured in my international best-seller, Combat Conditioning. When standing, it is good to see your buff body in the mirror as you do the deep breathing, fat-burning exercises found in Combat Abs. As you train you'll see your waistline going in and out. And day after day, as you train this way, you'll notice all the subtle and major changes taking place as your body is reshaped and sculpted. Training in the RAW increases motivation and mental focus. It also gives you a greater appreciation for your miraculous human body. And if it doesn't look or feel miraculous as you train this way, that's even more motivation to exercise and follow a good diet, so that it WILL. After your workout, jump in a cold shower to recharge your body. I'll write more on that in el futuro. In the interim, take a serious look at being a Matt Furey Inner Circle Member - by enrolling in my monthly coaching and support program. You get seven of my products FREE for enrolling. Plus you get a monthly newsletter and CD that gives you a workout to follow. The workout is broken into beginner, intermediate and advanced routines. Not only that, you get access to our private discussion board where you get all your questions answered. The program IS a steal! Enroll in this program - NOW and change your life for the better. Matt Furey

Take it eaaaaaaaasy with Kunlun. Don't rush it. It simple to do but very powerful. A friend of mine in Beijing I showed the practice to practiced once and started experiencing all kinds of things. She became uncomfortable. I showed her Jenny's DVD and explained that you shouldn't attach to different phenomena. Basically approach it the same way you would cessassion contemplation practice. If you don't already have a basic emptiness/cessation contemplation practice I would do that for awhile before doing Kunlun. See meditationexpert.com, Adyashanti.org, Eckhart Tolles stuff, Zen etc for that. Good wishes ps. even though I have been doing this practice for almost 5 years I very regularly take extended breaks. Weeks and even months off sometimes.

Here is Michael's side of the story if your interested. Link

I would like to leave something of potential value here so am going to take some time to write this. I am finished writing on Tao Bums after this. I won't answer PM's either so please don't write them. I began my search 18 years ago. My path started with martial arts. After that I got into Zen. I saw my "true face" relatively early when I was 19. That was interesting. What I found out though was seeing your true nature is just the beginning of the path. The 'Ox hearding pictures' of Zen portray this very well. After I got interested in Qigong I started to do online searches for "more". In retrospect it may have been better to simply practice all that I had been given at the age of 20 and be quiet about it. But the Taoist chat rooms drew me in. Right from the getgo drama was a big part of this. Michael Winn and Eric Yudelove had their respective "systems" each approaching Taoist alchemy in a different way. But essentially following the same foundational work. Eric's work looked very interesting but I found the behavior of the teacher made it impossible for me to really get into the system. Winn was a nice guy. Very easy going and friendly. I was an impressionable young guy in my 20's. So it was all good I suppose. When the first online Taoist wars started way back then I became attracted to the drama. It was fun. Here was one super high level Tao practitioner critisizing another super high level Tao practitioner. The actual differences in the systems and what the real issues were God only knows. I was a 23 year old clueless qigong lover and just found it interesting. Qigong Masters have ego's? Weeeeeeeeeee It got to the point when too much had been said, too much mudslinging and confusion around Mantak Chias system. His two most Senior American students seemed to be saying different things. So I mostly ditched the practices all together. I just returned to my qigong roots: Ken Cohen. He's as solid, down to Earth and approachable teacher as your ever going to meet. Friendly, no ego, intelligent. Ken is a real Qigong and Chinese Medicine ambassador. He stays out of online discussions entirely. A testament to his wisdom. Later, I became interested in modern Advaita style teachers. Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle etc. I found there stuff to be great. But I still needed my Taoist fix! LOL Enter my old friend Smile telling me on the phone 4 years ago " There is this amazing teacher named Sifu Max. He has attained Rainbow Body. I would definetly check him out." I was quite happy with the path I was on. But you only live once. So I decided to go. I think it goes without saying we were all pretty clueless on who Max was and what we would learn. Chris entered the Tao Bums almost immedietly after my post and it sounded like Kunlun was the best thing ever. Like the Ben and Jerry's of cultivation paths! From my first encounter with Max and Kan my feeling was I was now on a different path. Almost like everything I had done before was kind of a warm up. I doubt I was prepared for what I was given. I think Max just believed in me. I remember after recieving transmission from Max walking around the room in an almost completely different awareness. Max put his arm around my shoulder and told me " You are a martial artist, you can handle it." It was intense but I made it. I couldn't with any honesty admit I would feel comfortable for others to experience what I did. To say the months after meeting Max were intense would be an understatement. It felt like I was being rewired by the universe or something. Anyway, where this left me then and continues to leave me is in a permenent state of I DON'T KNOW. Not that I think I don't know. But I really, really don't know. The whole path as others have said seems to be one of surrender. The path of no more learning. Very simple, blissful direct pointing to emptiness. What is most useful in my view now is not engaging in discussions with other students. It doesn't matter what system we are each talking about. I don't care if your doing Healing Tao, BK Frantzis,, Spring Forest Qigong, Jenny Lamb, Michael Lomax, Tibetan Buddhism, Zen or whatever. As far as I can tell everyone basically has the same or very similar goals. We are just following different approaches. Within that understanding I see respect and respecting eachothers path as especially important. We are each complex creatures. With complex and emotional blocks, traumas, different challanges and struggling to find our way. I don't think it is fair to ourselves or our friends to put that struggle on other students. As far as I can tell most others on Tao Bums are also students struggling to find our way. One thing I never tried to do is put any burden on other Tao Bums to help me spiritually. I was always very clear in myself the distinction between authentic spiritual teachers and online Taoist newbs full of ego. I would say most people on here acting like teachers arent. They are doing more bad then good and would be better service to the community by simply stating that they have an ego, aren't actually verified as being enlightened by any lineage or given permission to teach on enlightenment by any lineage. It's a disservice. Your not Englightened yet. Enlightened people have englightened teachers who verify there enlightenment. To pretend that your somebody your not on an internet chatroom is pure ego. We all know who Buddha and Lao Tzu are. No one is Buddha and Lao Tzu's representative here. Get a grip. As a final note, If you are genunely interested in cultivation I sincerely and with all my heart hope you can connect with a living lineage and practice it. There are a few good ones, several being represented on Tao Bums. And I know this won't sit well with many people but if you really want to do this I think the best thing is to shut up and just follow what your teacher tells you until your enlightened. My teacher in Japan I feel is a living example of a modern awakened person. He says very, very little and when he does say something as far as I can tell it is always helpful. My teachers in China are the same way. Very much is communicated saying very little. I find these discussions can degenerate into very little good being communicated saying too much. May your path lead you to your goal, Cameron

Do what you want. If you enjoy Tao Bums keep posting! I feel I have said everything(probably too much)and don't have time or interest to keep writing here. If you are already enlightened great. I don't know you. I practice the Kunlun Nei Gung system. I am just a student and not a master. Who knows? Maybe in 5 or 10 years I will feel in a position to say more stuff and will. Cam

I asked Kan San very directly about his opinion on Tao Bums and all the bickering about different paths. He said(rough translation as his English isn't so good) "each path is special and leads to the same peak." The point isn't what path is better. It's what path is best for you. namaste(last post! lol)

Two of my favorites as well. '3 Pillars' was the first meditation book I ever read. It describes the entire process of enlightenment from the Zen perspective from a practitioners direct experiences. The Eight Gates of Zen by John Daido Loori is also a good one if your into Zen. For myself: 1. Kunlun by Max 2. Combat Conditioning by Matt Furey 3. Convict Conditioning 1 and 2 by Paul Wade

I would say the Kunlun system itself was really the fruit of my online Tao search in America. Now in Asia, I'll try to be receptive to what the Universe has to teach me. In China I have been given some special gifts. But I want to keep them for myself and my own journey and not blab all over the internet like I did the past few years. It's a great adventure living here in the origin of Taoism. Anyway, I hope my contributions here have been atleast somewhat helpful. I don't view myself as high level at all but aspire to atleast work to reach whatever my potentials are in this life. Ok, enough, best to all of you.

Thanks guys! Vortex, I was practicing martial arts pretty seriously and got into Zen. Th Zen center I visited reccommended a book to me which I used as a guide. I basically did nothing but train martial arts and zazen for an entire summer when I was 19. I don't like to conceptualize the experience, but the way I think about it now is it was my first contact with reality. Nothing special really. I presume others here have experienced the same or similar and it wasn't enlightenment, more like a small taste of enlightenment. Now I just do Kunlun and not Zen. I had the honor of meeting with an authentic Zen Master while in Korea but it was pretty clear to me that Zen isn't my path anymore. If I add anything else in now it will probably be internal martial arts or maybe yoga or something. Anyway, th-th-th-th-that's all folks! Don't ask anymore questions here because I won't answer!

If you want to talk shit about Max talk shit. I don't care, Max has accomplished enough he doesn't need to say the crazy stuff. But let's be honest it was Chris marketing that did that. I think Chris is a great guy but he's very Hollywood. He's a movie director. So what was not a big deal for him to talk about apparently is too far out for the conservative Tao Bums. Anyway, I am going to ask Kan very directly about his advice on all this stuff. If I continue communicating here or not it will be with his blessing. Max himself has already said he doesn't like the vibe here. But I don't like leaving all these damn questions hanging with know one who really knows(Max, Kan, Chris etc) answering them. Probably I just need to let go. I am just a student not the teacher. Cam

Wow you guys are hard on each other. Bickering over our respective paths? If I wanted to do that I could have picked Catholocism or Islam a long time ago. Tao Bums, unfortunately, doesn't remotely resemble my interest in Eastern Spirituality. I am embarassed to ever mention this place to any lineage adepts I meet in China. And I am embarassed Max had to have his name dragged through this crap. We are the representatives of Taoist practice in the West? Thank God that's not actually the case. Peace out

Not accurate. They have everything here that they have in the West. I bought a PS3 here and play lots of God of War

I would get a beer and chat with any of you guys in person. And I think if we all had lunch around a circular table, Chinese style, these conversations would look diffirent. Time to upgrade. Let me know when Taobums becomes a live, virtual chatroom and Ime there

For sure. It's just the spirit of some people here..doesn't seem like the Kunlun system is for them. No judgement, lots of paths to choose from. Hell my family is part Muslim and part Catholic. No Kunlun people there! In any case, hope people find whatever it is they are looking for and actually can experience the fruit of there search. The arguing over this and that over years here..eh,, gross. Later

I think you guys are all great, but perhaps too serious regarding Kunlun and Max. My last word on all of this. If you want a serious path I don't think Kunlun or Max is your bag. Plenty of serious paths out there to choose from. Pick one you like. Later

Max is Max. I don't care to change hime or demand he act anyway but himself. He is an amazing person. Who am I to say if he really has or hasn't experienced the many things I have heard him say? I do like Kan's style and looking forward to training with him. He has had wild experiences as well that most people would probably consider flat out lies. But you know what? I didn't sleep for 1 month after learning Kunlun. I dont think that is anything particularly special or anything. That's just what happened. Several of my friends who aren't into this stuff looked at me like I was crazy and didn't believe it. So I shut up about that. Could you imagine being like Max and having these sort of wild experiences all the time and not talking about it? I agree you need to cultivate your wisdom and speak to the level of your audience. Developing wisdom along side "spiritual experiences" is essential. I don't care to have crazy spiritual experiences without the wisdom foundation to back it up. If that means my progress might go slowerso be it.

It's a good point. Max teaches other stuff like standing meditation and one breath. As well as stating clearly that the most important time is 20 minutes of closing down with hands over the navel after practice. Also, Red Phoenix 2 brings the energy down very well. I don't practice Red Phoenix by itself much myself. I find doing Yigong/Kunlun 1 by itself enough. But I feel The Red Phoenix pretty much all the time. Level 1 is the upper tan tien part. Level 2 flows that energy through the entire body. Anyway, if people are interested in Kunlun my humble suggestion would be just do the level spontaneous which is already very powerful and get Red Phoenix live from Max or Kan. I'll see how Kan is doing it next week and post about it if there is something new/useful.

The more I learn the more I dislike comparing different teachers. For example, I could compare Max or Kan to a couple well known Qigong Masters I have trained with. But there isn't anything at all appealing to me in that myself. The way I look at it now, if it's not for you it's not for you. Why critisize, judge and diss it? Why presume since something isn't for you it isn't the right way for someone else or incredibly helpful to someone else? It's a big Universe, perhaps if something isn't for you and you hear others are enjoying it just moving along would be good? There is a restaurant in Beijing that my friends like but everytime I eat there I get an upset stomach. Does it mean it's a bad restaurant or it's just bad for me? Maybe spiritual teachers are like that and it's not a one size fits all situation?