Cameron

It might also be useful to ask who do you consider to be enlightened? I would definetly say Zen Master Dogen was enlightened. His saying that seems to sum it up, "To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever." And he said zazen was the main road to "get there". Then again, my guess is Dogen didn't practice Kunlun or Red Phoenix or Lei Shan Dao or Wudang or Tibetan Buddhism. So you might ask do these other practices lead to the same place as zen? Maybe the answer is yes but it is useful to look at the success rate of different paths. From what I understand, zen has been very "successful" in producing enlightened beings. Some might even say much more successful than other paths. But who knows. Perhaps all these Taoists paths to enlightenment were just kept underground and not taught to the public openly so that's why they didn't produce as many enlightened people compared to zen.

I think that is a benefit of being a Taobums sponsor.

August Leo..from his first post on the thread Many modern awakened teachers, like Adyashanti and most every Zen teacher I have come across, make a distinction between seeing your true self, Tao, Buddha Nature etc and living it. Living it is sometimes referred to as "embodiment". Seeing your true nature is relatively easy compared to embodying it in your thoughts and actions imo, very few people get to that stage but probably many get an initial realization or something. This is all explained in detail in zen, the ox hearding pictures with there ten stages are one example.

i am enlightened I can finally laugh at myself enjoy your self world honored one

In response to August Leo.. http://www.jaysquare.com/ljohnson/ox-herding.html Zen has a really interesting representation of the stages of enlightenment called the "ox hearding pictures". It traces all the stages of enlightenment from "The search" to living in the world as a fully enlightened being. From my limited understanding, your idea of self realization would be either represented by the 2nd stage "Discovering the Footprints" or the 3rd stage "Perceiving the Bull". I believe this initial awakening is called "kensho" in zen. Satori or enlightenment like Buddha or other enlightened Masters experienced would be probably the 9th stage "Reaching the Source" and the 10th stage "In the World". Cam

http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/meditation.php

No idea. But it definetly seemed interesting enough to share. That codex stuff is pretty scary!

John Sherman is good too. His story is he got awakening while in prison. fVcKDAFb5tQ&feature

in my cup of tea the sadness of the world vanishes every sip an eternity of joy

I went there when I was a kid. There are probably some great spots on the side of the waterfalls that you can sit and do some practice. Really amazing place.

I saw him live a few months ago. He seems awakened. But after studying with Max he would probably bore you

Feel anything? Since Max did his energy stuff on me my whole system has felt like it's getting sucked through a black hole into an alternate dimension or something. LOL. But..I guess practically speaking, he did the transmission with his hands on my crown and 3rd eye points. He also put hs finger on my gate of life point several times, I think Chris and Kan do this too. In the workshop they come up to you while you are practicing Kunlun and transfer energy. Diana, one of Max's female students, projected energy at me a few times and felt like a very cool, yin kunlun energy. The overall quality to the energy they project(kunlun) feels to be a very powerful and often intense magnetic field. I felt it quite strongly and continue to feel the magnetic energy very strongly. When I saw him in Sedona he did an energy transmission to everyone in the group while we were lying on our backs. He does all kinds of stuff and all kinds of energetic things happen. I actually don't have the experience or understanding to really explain what Max actually does or how he does it, but it has been a roller coster since I met him

Both, I think.

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No, I don't know who he learned this from. August Leo got worked on a bit at the workshop. I just had some energy transferred without slapping but would be nice to experience the Max slap sometime!

The 1 Max video on youtube. Not sure which stlye he is using. wr_8zfV22GI

Taoist intuition skillz.

Would be cool if August Leo shifts into Gold Dragon Body while in the middle of writing a post. Like.."Had a nice Kunlun practice and spontaneously started doing Red Phoenix. RP is increasing and there are little creatures all around me and a rainbow going up into the clouds by my feet. I think all the molecules in my room are dissolving into light! Crap, my hand just disappeared! I am turning into pure consciousness and expanding out to fill the whole universe! I see Kan and Max in front of me with Coca Cola and Pizza and some Taoist and Tibetan Dieties behind them! Good bye Taobums!! Let's go Anne Marrie!!" *kidding*

sun-kissed by Bud Light azure sky on the horizon where is the way home?

So I was finishing up doing some zazen and had the strong urge to do kunlun. I did a short sesshin. 20 min of kunlun and 10 min of close down. I immedietly got both legs bouncing alot and the Stevie Wonder side to side movement going. Was a nice practice. Afterwards felt like someone was blowing bubbles down into my body. But if I fight or resist the bubbles it feels like I am drowning underwater. So need to work on not fighting the kunlun energy doing it's thing. I think I officially have a love hate realationship with kunlun

I did the Introduction to Zen training weekend many years ago. This is definetly the best Zen group I have known. If I was going to seriously take up Zen practice I would study with this teacher. If you haven't read it pick up his book The Eight Gates of Zen. The best intro to Zen for western students imo.

For Sean(and others interested). Here is an interesting retreat center in Costa Rica. I just found out about it and since it's your new home thought I would share. Sounds like some really good teachers there. http://www.shaolin-wahnam-center.org/center/index.htm

Karma stemming from mountains of ignorance would be my guess.

nice.

Emptiness meditation can definetly produce blissful feelings, but you don't attach to it. Sort of like beautiful scenery on a long drive. It can also be difficult at times and not enjoyable..also..just scenery. I do prefer bliss to pain though