Cameron

I don't know man, when I was hanging out with Yoda and his Dad they all seemed awfully close to me..also, if I ever need legal advice I am calling Y's Dad because as far as lawyers go he seems like a good one!

Thinking about it, alot of this would seem obvious. But when personal issues and emotions get involved the obvious tends to get thrown out the window. I think Taobums inherent nature is like a labratory. That's really what the original members and first years of this forum were about. Studying and doing different practices and then reporting back our own, unique experiences with them. Things get off track when it becomes very subjective and we lose sight of the simplicity of Tao. I think when you get into arguments over lineages or start a who's who debate on Taoism your really on the wrong track here. The only result of saying that your teacher is better than someone elses teacher is animosity. There is no way around this. I would say institute an immediete warning and then 2nd warning and then ban to anyone who takes the discussions of track by stating either, a. Your teacher sucks. b. My teacher is the best Taoist teacher alive. c. Your teacher both sucks and my teacher is also the best Taoist teacher alive. This type of discussion goes nowhere but downhill. What I think would be a good way to express yourself in that type of situation is "I tried practice X, I think it sucks, practice Y is a much better practice FOR ME." By expressing yourself more along these lines you show not only that you have actually tried the practice you are commenting on but that you also show the board you are not an ego maniac by supposing your experience with any 1 practice will be the same exact experience for the rest of human kind. For example, you try a certain meditation and hate it. You come on and tell us your experience. It's interesting for everyone to read. However, you realize it's a big world with many different people of all different types of energetic makeups and someone else might absolutely love the practice you hate. But to critisize the teacher of said practice directly I think is out of bounds and should just not be part of the discussion. I think this way we can learn more from eachother and not just embarass ourselves and the ancient enlightened teachers who helped bring us all these wonderful practices. My guess is this will be something we deal with over and over and over. At some time this year or next year another "high level Taoist master" or even "The highest level Master to teach" will come on the scene and rather than attack the teacher or go on about how incredibly enlightened he or she is. We can try the practice(if it is publically available) and just comment objectively. I liked it because..., I disliked it because.... I think that is the direction the forum should take. Cameron

Ohh..you are going to make me pull out the big guns. Ok..everyone...Yoda's Dad is a Lawyer. A really good one from what I understand. Prepare to become Wayfarer's arch enemy.

I am probably going to be too busy to do much travelling this year. Plus, I have probably been the most active in travelling to see Taobums already. I flew to Bay Area twice last year to hang out with Sean(and see Adyashanti) I have hung out with Smile in NYC. I drove to LA and met Trunk, Smile, Sean Denty and several other Taobums. Yoda is originally from Phoenix so he flies out here once a year and we hang out. And met a couple newer TB's last week. My present goal is to get a job that let's me get back into doing Aikido every day. A good 9-5 job is pretty hard to find in Phoenix and my schedule looks like it is all over the place, including working nights. Lama Max mentioned doing a special TB's Kunlun retreat if there is interest so that might be the way to go. But I have done 4 Max workshops in 4 months and really want to focus on other things now. But if your ever in Az give me a call!

Ken Cohen says sitting and forgetting and standing meditation are the foundation of qigong training. If someone were to ask me what to practice with no backround experience in meditation or already not focused and ungrounded I would say focus on those 2:sitting and forgetting and standing meditation, for a good year before moving on to more exotic qigong systems or martial arts which already require a bit of balance, focus etc to perform well. Cam

The reaction to Kunlun has been interesting. People seem to either love it or really dislike it. My feeling is that it's best to respect other's views. But that implied in this respect is that they represent themselves with good manners or atleast don't be blatantly hostile themselves. It's difficult. This is the internet. I have got sucked into the online Tao wars atleast once or twice and they could have easily been avoided with just some basic courtesy. I mean, it sounds obvious. If you think a teacher or practice is bogus just say so. I think teacher X teaching practice Y is bogus. Here is my reasoning. Thank you, goodbye. Once you state your opinion it's said and done. Everyone reading the site knows where you stand. I think to take it beyond that is getting into hostile and unfriendly territory and not respecting the overall harmony of the community. I don't know, alot of it seems like common sense, just respect others. If you disagree you can still disagree with respect. Is it any mystery the few people who disrepect others in almost every post in turn get disrespected? Treat others as you would like to be treated etc. Maybe you have something good to say or helpful but it's hard to hear what you are saying with an ego so loud. Cam

Edit- Ahhh, I promised myself not to get in any more arguments about this. Best of luck to everyone.

re-posted from Joeblasts journal for anyone coming from a Max workshop and feeling ungrounded. If I gave myself advice after the first Max workshop this is what I would say:stand. Drop Red Phoenix, Drop Kunlun, Drop everything and just stand. For me if I could have stood for a month that would have been good, but was feeling so ungrounded couldn't even stand really. 4 months later things are balancing out a little better. I am doing Kunlun every day. But if you get that unbalanced feeling(for me it is like magnets running all over my body but in a sort of disorganized way) I would say replace all other practices with standing. I think I heard Max say at either Scottsdale or Sedona that if you can stand for an hour a day it will change your life. Ken Cohen says standing meditation is the foundation of all other energy practices. My feeling is when the energies are grounded, balanced, harmonious etc Red Phoenix can become a sweet practice. Also, Max's student Richard briefly described the second level of Red Phoenix too me and it sounds like it involves bringing the energies from the head down all the way to the feet. Which sounds balancing. Max asked me in Scottsdale to remind him to ask him to teach me the next level of Red Phoenix but with all the excitement and stuff didn't get to it. Will make sure to get a good explanation of it next time I see him. Cam

Hard to say. My reaction after the first workshop was extreme and not something I would want to do again. I think seeing him maybe gave more opportunuties to get a more balanced transmission. I don't have a clue how the transmission works but I have had a better time after these last 2 workshops then the first two. But that could be my system has learned to integrate or hold the kunlun energies better. I think after the Sedona workshop I got a small taste of Buddha Nature. Don't know how to describe it. Like not an intense or far out experience but a soft compassionate feeling from the heart and then seeing that in all things. It's sort of beyond the mind I guess. My reaction after the Scottsdale workshop was pretty relaxed and balanced. The energy of seeing everyone and friends visiting it was almost more of a party vibe. It was alot of fun but different. For Sedona, I drove a total of about 8 hrs alone the 2 days and got to just sit in silence after the workshop. Max asked me in Sedona "have you fallen on the floor yet?" I think a level of attainment in Kunlun is falling on the floor laughing. I haven't gotten there yet but I think it is because I had alot of seriousness in my personal life coming back from the first couple workshops. I think I have finally reached the point after Sedona to smile and laugh more and not take life so seriously. Max also showed me a special standing meditation posture to help open the "wind channel" which he says is the main channel I need to open. So will play with that one also. Cam

Welcome! I was going to the workshop with Master Chen and Ken Cohen in Boulder last November but caught a ride on the Max Kunlun trane instead. Would love to here your feedback on Taoist practices. Also, if you don't mind discussing no problem, but I noticed Master Chen charges alot for his alchemy retreats. I probably have enough on my my plate learning from my present Tao teacher for now but how do people afford the retreats if they aren't already wealthy?(I beleive he was charging $2500 for a week long Taoist retreat) Cam

I guess I can't spend almost a week with Max and not give a report The vibe between Max and his students is really great. More of a family type of atmosphere than formal teaching setting. Everytime I see him he get's funnier and funnier. At the first LA workshop his sense of humor really impressed me and it is still strong. It was nice seeing Chris, Dakini, Diana, Doni(did I say that right?) and more. It was also great meeting new friends and the Taobums that decided to check out Kunlun. Practice wise, the Scottsdale workshop was highlited for me when Max taught us how to combine Kunlun with Red Phoenix. As with all Max practices I have learned so far, it was simple and effortless. You raise the Kunlun energy in a specific way and then also do the Red Phoenix practice. I will probably keep Kunlun and Red Phoenix seperate for a bit longer but it will be nice to combine them later. The Sedona workshop was awesome. It was the first time I did Kunlun with a group at night. Max taught us another practice to combine Golden Flower with Kunlun. Max taught us details about Golden Flower and it was nice getting 2 transmissions from Max in both workshops. In the Sedona workshop, Max did a healing on each participant. This probably wouldn't be possible with larger groups as Max spent time transmitting to each of us and then telling us where we need work. For example one guy in the class was very fire and Max told him it was important for him to bring the fire down to the belly and bring water to his head. His assement of me was that my energy is more void and I need more physical fire. He suggested eating more spicey foods like curry. Everyone seemed to have a really powerful experience. I didin't go into as much spontaneous movements while Max was transmitting to me as most others. Some of the others were really moving and bending. One of Max's woman students, a really nice tall lady who I have seen at every Max workshop I have gone to achieved Level 2 bliss and was really having a good time. Towards the end of the 2nd day of the Sedona workshop we did group Kunlun and I really started feeling a strong magnetic feeling around me and around the room. Some people(on taobums) mentioned Kunlun isn't magnetic energy and is just qi and Max shouldn't call it something different or whatever but it was clear to me it is different. It's a cool, magnetic energy and different than qi. I think Max says it is only found in the depths of space on his website or something like that. Whatever it is, it isn't regular qi. Max says there were only 4 people empowered to transmit Kunlun and the other 3 stopped. So he is really the only one with the unique abilty to transmit this energy now(and his top students). Feeling is believing. I won't defend Kunlun practice or get into any arguments about it again. For people that are skeptical or even negative towards Max I would suggest doing a workshop first. If you do a workshop first and then say it's bs and your teacher knows all that stuff and has Max's abilities fine, but to say that before you even do a workshop is pretty silly. It was great seeing everyone again, looking forward to the Kunlun discussion site developing in coming weeks, months so people who are going more deeply on Max's path can share in a practice friendly enviormentment. Taobums is also great, Sean is a great guy and will be interested in seeing how both Taobums and the Kunlun site develop. Cam

Anyone do Body Flow? I started doing some of the excercises and they are pretty fun! I can definetly see how alot of these movements would help my Jiu Jitsu. I remember Warrior Wellness and Prasara getting thumbs up but don't remember Body Flow being mentioned. I just have the videos not the book. There are no guidelines or anything just the excercieses .Are you supposed to do them in any special order or is it just for whenever? Is Prasara similar to BF? What about Freedom by degree?

How important do you think unconditonal love is on the spirual path? In some ways, I feel that I have hit a wall in my practice that can only be moved through with unconditional love. Seems like one of the great challenges. No matter what you have been through or feel is to have unconditional love. How does a parent who's child has been murdered have unconditional love towards the killer? How does someone who has been abused have unconditional love towards their abuser? In some ways, it feels like no matter how much a person has suffered, unconditional love is really the only real solution. I think this was one of the great realizations of O'Sensei, the founder of Aikido. To have unconditional love even for someone trying to hurt or even kill you is the true way of the warrior. Maybe this whole world is some wierd experiement to see if you can have unconditional love even in situations which logically don't call for it. Seems like a question for a lifetime but would be interested in hearing what people think.

LOL at flying through the Bible Belt. They have sense of humor

It was just a kite. Carry on.

Ok, here is the tentative plan for this weekend. I will be hanging out with my friend who is into Taoism and his girlfriend and an artist friend of his who is into shamanism and art. If anyone that is coming wants to join us they can. Friday night-Max talk and then hang out on Mill Ave in Tempe. Sat-Workshop followed by hike up Camelback Mountain. Flexible about what to do in the evening. Sun-Workshop followed by drive to Sedona for some hiking and relaxing. If people want was thinking of doing the Pink Jeep tour which is an off road 4x4 Jeep tour around Sedona but that can get a little pricey, like $75 each for a couple hrs. But it's a lot of fun. Otherwise we can just hike on our own. Open to suggestions if others have anything they want to do or ideas.

Saw a link to this guy's program on Matt Furey's site. Anyone check it out? http://www.rechargingqigong.com/

I feel that my new av of a bunny with a pancake on it's head does a good job of summing up this thread.

Wow. That is pretty generous Winpro. How about Buddy come to Phoenix and Winpro reimburses you in a couple months? Heck, why doesn't Starjumper come to and he can explain things to Chris in person rather than silly angry posts. Just sayin'

I went with sweet and sour pork from this place I havent been to before and it sucked! The soup wasn't bad though. What does food(or anything) have to do with qi? Isn't that sort of like asking what does your mind have to do with your life?

That does sound good. General Tsiao chicken for lunch!

I actually did just laugh out loud and not just saying it to sound clever.

I understand where you are coming from Buddy. I don't think Max really pushes the martial aspect of kunlun or whatever we are calling much at all but your skepticism doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I think it's fair to say the only way you would "buy" that sort of stuff would be to experience it youself. Which you need to do a workshop, study with Max etc to do. Even then, there aren't any guarantees you would feel anything. It's not like everyone doing kunlun workshops is getting thrown from across the room. Your position is to be expected. If I showed the clip of Max throwing Kan without touch to MMA guys or IMA guys like on Empty Flower Forum my guess is most all of them would think it was total bs. I am just interested enough in the practices Max teaches and other things I have experienced since studying with Max that this no touch throwing with energy issue is just really way down on the list of things that I care about or focusing on. I do Aikido with a Japanese Shihan who throws people physically backed by lots of power. My guess is that my martial focus will be more on the technical aspects of MA like you focus on. But if I get to the point where I am throwing or being thrown with energy will let you know