Cameron

I am a poor student trying to get a career started Buddy. Would help you out if I could though.

Buddy, why not show us all how truly open minded you are and come to the Phoenix workshop this weekend. I think You, Mantra, Max etc would probably clear up in a couple minutes in person what might take weeks of posting time to accomplish. The weather here is awesome now. So if you really dislike it you could always just enjoy the weather and do some hiking

I can't say I know at this point because I had done qigong for quite awhile before I did a Max workshop. I took classes with some good qigong teachers. The experiences I had and other students were having was not even close to what people were experiencing at Max's workshop. I will give you an example. The friday night lecture for the first LA workshop a woman who from what I could gather had little to no experience with energy basically "accidently" walked into the bookstore Max was speaking at. After the Max talk I spoke with her for a minute and she said she was just spontaneously drawn to going inside while walking by, met Max, then decided she would do the workshop. I saw the woman again with Trunk(also posts here) right after the first day with Max and she and others were having experiences of feeling pulled into the Earth. I dont' know how to describe it. Like a gravitional force is pulling you into the Earth and the ground feels like it is shaking. I felt this ground shaking feeling for atleast the first month after the workshop and it still comes up at times. Is that connected to the magnetci energy from Kunlun, well obviously it is connected to kunlun in some way. I did standing meditation for years and aikido and nothing even close to that. Maybe that is just the first stage of you magnetic energy awakening and people were having that experience from the first day. I haven't bee thrown without touch like Kan or stuck to a fence but maybe those type of things happen when your practice gets more developed. Anyway, I am just a beginner and Buddy, Starjumper and othershave been at this for decades. So I feel silly even debating this with you guys. If Mantra wants to go over this stuff with you fine but I'll just try to train for a few years before getting into any these debates I really dont' know enough about yet to even be in.

Hey Buddy, Before my first workshop with Max I might agree with you but had too many experiences to discount what they say about magnetic energy. Especically when you see students with no experience with qigong having experiences from studying kunlun it makes me think it is at least worth looking into. In some ways, Taoists who have been around for along time remind me of scientists who refuse to consider or even look at new data. Like they did these tests on the Sphnix for water damage and now think it is something like over 15,000 years old but am sure you get scientists who subscribe to civilazation only being 6000 years old or whatever who just hear that and go. "BS! No chance of being true. This is what life is! Yaa,yaa,ya,yaa". Not saying your views aren't valid but they may not include the totality of the picture. Was just a joke

LOL. Sean needs to make 3 forums. 1. The science behind Max discussion forum(A chance to debunk Kunlun science for all Tao scientists). 2. The who's teacher can beat up who's teacher forum. Think your teacher has what it takes to be king of Taoist internet arguments? Prove it! 3. Regular Taoist discussion.

Wow, thanks for the extra info Chris. Would it be fair to say Max has spent more time in the Mao Shan clan than any of the other systems he has studied(29 years)? Or does his direct connection with other high level teachers carry that same sort of weight(many years of training in an authentic Taoist lineage). It's amazing how he is deeply connected with Mao Shan, Kunlun, Wudang, Egypt, Tibet etc etc. It seems you would almost have to have a strong connection to past lives just to be able to do that. My guess is most practitioners would have their hands full with just one system, whether Tibet, Taoist, Buddhist or whatever. So Max has brought us the best practices from some of the highest systems and combining them makes them even better. Almost seems like we are spoiled

My guess is you can get a pretty solid answer about that next weekend if it's important to you.

I think Smile is saying to do any spiritual practice without emphasis on developong an overall virtuous lifestyle is sort of like playing this game. aLrWwmnt2po&feature=related

I think what Smile was saying is someone like you might have a strong affinity for Kunlun. Same for several others on the board. While some others might do Kunlun and not think it is anything special. The idea that one method is the best for all or that your system is the best system is pretty silly. I like kunlun and will give it atleast this year to really see how deeply I can go with it but I don't know that it is the best practice for anyone else. That's up to you to decide.

Great post Smile. I think alot of what people are ranting about post after post was summed up in that first paragraph. Claims like "most powerful teachings and techniques for spiritual development ever taught on Earth" or "one hour of this practice equals 100 years of any other practice" are very bold. Thus, we will always have people come here and question them. Any practitioner who has a little bit of wisdom will laugh at the whole thing because they know it doesn't work this way. Every internal method of cultivation will eventually fall into a foundation of principles that are the same when you do them the proper way. Then you have to take into the account person's destiny, karma and type of spiritual practice that is more suitable for them to be successful. Buddha said once that there are 10,000 afflictions and 10,000 methods to overcome them.

This is definetly a man thread and not suitable for a polite english woman I wonder why we don't get more feedback from gals on here with charming threads like this. LOL.

Jakara, I am curious what do you consider a "complete Taoist system"? The way kunlun has been described it is a fast way of removing that which is not needed. To me, Kunlun sounds very in line with practices like zazen or Taoist sitting and forgetting just works very quickly. I don't think kunlun is the end all be all of qigong, nei kung, Tao or whatever we are calling it. I am pretty sure Max doesn't teach that. The most I have heard Max say is the Kunlun and another practice he teaches called Red Phoenix can lead you to something called "Golden Dragon Body" which he says is the highest spiritual state a human being can achieve. So, I would be interested in you defining what an authentic Taoist system is. What's it's goals are. And how they are superior to what Max teaches. From what I can gather it is the simplicity of what Max teaches that might give people problems. People love complexity. And if it isn't really complex with a hundred different levels and your teacher having to show you a new position every week it's bs to some people. I think the way Max is presenting his system is very liberating because he is saying all you need are 2 simple practices(3 if you include standing) and the transmission and your set. You are your own teacher and have all the tools you need. I can see how humans end up throwing away simplicity. It's as if it doesn't look like some complicated technology that has to be updated every week it's bogus. What if awakening was much simpler than you could imagine and just took dedicated practice of 2 effortless meditations? It's atleast worth taking a look at.

Totally. These anti Kunlun guys are so serious and demanding. I am just having fun with it. Someone said in a post on this thread "Your credabilty is connected to kunlun". What a joke. I am just talking about practices with friends. It is possible in 6 months I will turn around and say "Did kunlun, useful practice, but I think just doing stillness or whatever is better." I doubt that will happen. I have had experiences with this and it doesn't feel like it is stopping. Also, Max is definetly one of the most interesting teachers I have known and I like his down to Earth, friendly way of communicating with students.

Not really. I am all for critical thinking and questioning. Like..if you said "I am not too sure about Kunlun or Max. I think I need to wait a year and hear more feedback before I attempt the practice or do a workshop. It just sounds like hype to me." My response would be "Sounds good". But this BLATANT dissing by like 2 or 3 people here isn't that at all. It is blatant attacking, character assasination etc etc.

My God man WYG was right all along!! And Starjumper has bragging rights forever!! What an embarassment! To everyone coming to Phoenix next week. My bad! LOL.

niiiiiiiiiice.

Tolerance, nice. I say patience. Patience is allowing things to flow without forcing them in the direction you want. I am so often humbled by my lack of patience in myself. To me, an excellent example of patience is a martial artist who can be still and calm enough to wait until just the right moment before the strike or punch hits to move or react. To aggressively react or lose your center before the right moment is lack of patience. This is something to work on over a lifetime.

Ok..it's obvious this has become counterproductive. So will stop posting in this thread. Even if I get personally attacked by any of you high level enlightened Taoists. LOL.

Thanks for the kind words WYG Your response makes me think, atleast in your case, probably in the other couple of Tao ego maniacs posting in this threads case also...the asnwer is B. Thanks for the clarification. B. Taoism really is quite an egotisitical path with many high energy masters that never get close to removing the illusion of the seperate "I" thought. In fact many "Taoists" use there attainments(martial, siddhis or whatever) to farther increase their already overblown or defficient ego's.

Sorry, just start it again. I stopped smoking yesterday and am getting a bit dizzy now. No more posting for a couple days. Wish me luck!!

I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about. Faith shaken? It isn't about faith man. I have already explained my position many times. I agree with The Learner practice for awhile and then make up your mind about Kunlun or Max based on actual experience. Your guys rushing to judge someone many of us think is high level without any experience or even giving the practice a try is a little disturbing. Seems to me Kunlun has actually done a great service in shining a light on the huge ego's of many so called Taoist pracitioners. It has always been the case but this practice for whatever reason really seems to define the issue. MY way is better. MY teacher or system is better. You must not have faith in your system. Really,really distubing and a sign to me either A. Max really is one of the first enlightened masters to teach publically as many of you who have spent years in other systems seem miles away from awakening to me or B. Taoism really is quite an egotisitical path with many high energy masters that never get close to removing the illusion of the seperate "I" thought. In fact many "Taoists" use there attainments(martial, siddhis or whatever) to farther increase their already overblown or defficient ego's. Ok, that's it. I am done with this. For my part I have never once insulted any of your teachers and I have to admit I am a bit personally put off by a couple of you. Some of you I even though of as wise before. Sorry, not that you care, but a couple of you have really taken it too far and just shown yourself to be rude, uncultivated human beings. I honestly don't think any of you making negative remarks are anywhere even close to the ballpark of Max's spiritual level. Not even remotely close.

One more try then! Off we go again This ocean of energy filling our bones How long does this longing last?

Oops..sorry I just ignored that it was a chain and did my own thing Ok..for the chain.. Each pass goes deeper This inner labarynth of the mind cracked open All is revealed within this golden treasure house

No, WYG is right and has opened my eyes. Forget practicing kunlun and having your own direct experience. It's all about Max proving to us he is who he says he is by levitating and turning into light. And doing so on a clip for the internet! Oh, how blind I have been, thank you WYG.