Cameron

Your a funny guy. Honestly your stance on kunlun is entertaining to me at this point. I want you to keep it up until Max demonstrates his ability to levitate and transform into light dammit!!

Hiked about 1/4 the way up Camelback Mountain today in preperation for the Taobums next week. It's a cool place. Really solid, big energy. Will be fun to hike up after the workshop on saturday. Probably takes about an hour to get up and down. I noticed how heavy I was breathing after the first minutes going up but felt really good afterwards. Not sure what the plan is besides that. We can play it by ear. A friend of mine into Taoism will also be there with his girlfriend

xenolith you think you are enlightened? I won't say you are or not, I don't know you. Do you study with anyone consistently or is this enlightenment achieved all on your own after reading about crown chakra orgasms? There is something to studying with enlightened teachers. If you don't think Max is enlightened fine, but I would say study with someone you think is really enlightened and get confirmation from that teacher that you are in fact enlightened before proclaiming yourself to be. Don't want to bash your experience, you may very well be high level. But I have never heard anyone who was genunely awake proclaim themselves to be enlightened. At best, they affirm where they are at with some deep teaching or something. You seem very eager to critisize people who I consider high level, especially for their age, such as Mantra and Sean. Were you anywhere near these guys level of awakening when you were still in your 30's? It's mind boggling to me the level of ego some of you have. The truly bizarre thing is you publically proclaim yourselves to be evoled beyond ego and then write posts that deomostrate not only that you are full of yourself(MY enlightenment experience is better than YOUR experience) but are some of the most egotistical sounding people. Some of you like Xeno, Starjumper rival born again Christians with your desire to prove yourself superior and convert the rest of us following "false teaching". Are you sure you were interested in Taoism and not Catholicism or Muslim Fundamentialism or something?

Ok, I see. Your on a crusade to debunk claims Max makes on the website that those of us actually practicing Kunlun could care less about. Ok, I got you. That's just not really the style of most of. We are mostly a check it out, do it, report back type of group. But if really getting into debunking scientific claims Max teaches(The book mentions something about scientists saying he has high amounts of ultra violet rays from his brain and 3 strand DNA, interesting stuff but not really what drives me). The way I see it if a practice is good keep it. If it's a waste of time ditch it. Most everyone doing Kunlun is getting good experiences and having fun with it. As far as the price goes as far as I know what Max teaches is comporable or even less than most well know teachers. See how much it would cost you to do a workshop with BK Frantzis or week long retreat with Michael Winn and compare it to what Max charges. I really don't see where you are coming from with that. The David Shen Foundation forum charges something like 10k which it's members are more than happy to pay to go visit Masters in China for 3 weeks. Master Chen in Colorado charges something like $2500 for a week long Alchemy retreat. $300 for 2 days doesn't seem like an absurd amount of money. What do you think Max should charge?

Ancient mountain Heaven and earth, right where you stand Infinity revealed in each breath

All these strong opinions from people who haven't done the workshop, tried the practice or even bought the book. I am not sure what scientific model you are looking at. I don't pay too much attention to what people say about the science behind cultivation. It's interesting to me but my experience is enough to go on at this point without getting into all the scientific jargon. For example, Mantra recently said something like kunlun connects you to "zero point" or something. Sounded really interesting and I think I know what he was talking about but not really. So far The Learners attitude is still by far the most balanced to me. Buy the book, do the practice for 6 months, if you can make a workshop great if not sounds like people are getting results just doing the practice. All this arguing without even doing the practice is really getting silly. Atleast people who went off on Winn or whatever actually spoke from experience having done the meditations Healing Tao taught. Then finding something they percieved as being better(David Shen Foundation Training, Master Nan or whatever). You guys are just taking a position on a great practice and teacher without any experience and the idea that Kunlun or what Max teaches isn't Taoist seems silly to me. So what do you think Kunlun is? A Muslim practice? Of course it's Taoist. It comes from China and is an awakening practice it's Taoist.

I won't describe the practice since Mantra said not to. There is a transmission that goes along with Red Phoenix just as there is a transmission for kunlun. Can't say about book transmission. But I would take the description from the book over illegal copyright posting over the internet incomplete descriptions. Also, Starjumper, I think everyone is acutely aware now that you think kunlun is bs, Max is a fraud and you think your system and teacher are much better. You really don't need to repeat yourself in every single post man. I am willing to bet people here are intelligent enough to get your position on this issue by now.

A kunlun forum is in the works. I am excited to see what it will look like. I think people should talk about whatever except maybe be a little more respectful. The anti-kunlun posts don't have much to say except "kunlun is bs, my system is better", after reading the same thing 20 times get's old. If you want to talk about another system just start a new thread.

I would have to disagree with what you said. The first time I practiced Kunlun I really had no idea what to expect. I got the book in the mail-which in fact does talk about shaking along with a host of other side effects from the practice-and took the posture. I was interested that my leg started bouncing soon after and made a post about it in my former practice jounral and Mantra immeditetly gave us all good feedback about the bouncing. I honestly just think this is some sort of bizarre ego thing you have with Max and won't comment to any more of your posts. As you have already stated you have decades of experience and seem to be really confident that Max and what he teaches are not high level stuff. If you would make a DVD or atleast post a Youtube video of yourself doing a form, some Tai Chi or something so all of us can be enlightened to what a real high level practitioner such as yourself looks like. I am serious. Maybe we all need to be humbled by you who knows. I have these concepts in my head about how a Bodhisattva or Buddha behaves but maybe you really have the goods. At this point I think you owe us all a small clip atleast after asserting so strongly how much better you are then another teacher. Cam

Starjumper, My legs started shaking from pretty much the first week I started Kunlun. I came on Taobums and Mantra68..Max's student and friend, has been explaining to people left and right details about shaking(including shaking in one leg is more yang one more yin etc) and that when your legs are shaking that means your "generating". Honestly man, you really need to do a little better research before just coming here and going to war with Kunlun. There are dozens of threads for many months now, Mantra and Max aren't hiding details about the practice. If anything, they are more open and willing to share these practices than any Chinese alchemy teacher. Unless we were willing to move to Seattle for the mere chance of studying with you or your teacher let me guess we would probably never learn a thing about the system you and your teacher teach. Max is going against tradition and teaching high level practices to people. You just wrote several large pragraphs about Max that are completely false. At the first workshop Max said exactly what you have said in that post and he gave people all the info they need. The shaking isn't forced-you seem to have some sort of block with this aspect after Mantra already clearly explained it to you-the shaking is SPONTANEOUS and the transmission just helps the whole process along. Cam

It's interesting you have all these people who haven't practiced Kunlun or haven't practiced Kunlun for any extended periods with such strong opinions about Kunlun. Not to mention haven't gotten transmission from Max. Which is sort of important. All these people with so many, many opinions about Kunlun. I mean, Kunlun is one of 3 things Max teaches at the seminar. The others are Mao Shan standing which is a very powerful practice by itself and Red Phoenix. Red Phoenix is the most powerful practice I have ever learned hands down. It works frightengly fast. So far The Leaners attitude is the most balanced I have heard. If you are actually interested in studying Kunlun actually do it for 6 months. Then you have experience you can draw from instead of basing decisions about your own awakening on the opinions of strangers on the internet that you probably won't meet in your life. As far as negative things to say which our buddy xenolith above has shown again and again he is a master of, my attitude from here on out on Taobums will be what we learned in Kindergarden and still great advice. If you don't have something nice to say about someone say nothing at all.

Deep question. I don't know the answer. At this point, balancing all of the different dimensions of "self" and gaining clarity about reality seems where it is at.

It's $15 man. Probably the info will get out at some point on the web. Just respecting what the people who wrote it and going to the trouble to do these workshops said man.

I agree with someone who PM'd me about this today. I think the internet communication(not face to face or even on the phone) accounts for atleast 90% of the cause. Cameron

Hehe, ok man. Your a funny guy. Max was pretty up front about learning Kunlun from Jenny(?) he mentioned her at the first workshop I went to and said she is his "sister" and wanted him to convert back to Buddhism or something. Max has said several times that there were originally 4 people teaching Kunlun and all the other 3 stopped. I am guessing Jenny was one of the other 3? From what I understand Red Phoenix is a high level practice in Mao Shan and Max learned it from his Sifu in Hawaii(a Mao Shan Master). I will agree with you Max is a bit of an enigma. There are some things I was told about him that I can't talk about here..and would just be "outside the box" of this whole line of thinking. I like The Learners attitiude. Do the practice for 6 months, see for yourself how you like it. I mean, your posting descriptions to Level 1 without permission. Obviously, you live in a free country and you can show anyone you want the book or whatever but if the people who are teaching it say not to do something and you go ahead and do it I don't think you have to be a high level Taoist to know that is a bit disrespectful.

Why do you feel the need to say something negative about it in basically every single post? I am guessing everyone here knows WYG's position on Kunlun and Max now. You don't need to keep saying these things over and over. If you feel that strongly about it why not just put in your signature, I study an authentic Taoist system. I currently don't think Max is who he says he is. I also think his marketing and website sucks. Also, I am open to seeing if it is true and will visit him when he comes to Oz.

I talked to Max's student Richard on the phone today and he says he had no cartilidge in his hips. He mentioned somewhere else his hips were bone on bone. He said after learning and practicing Kunlun the cartilidge in his hips grew back. Mantra said in the Max radio interview he hasn't gotten sick once since meeting Max. Taoist elitists overblown ego's aside, I don't see how you can hear those things and not think this practice is a very positive thing that can really help people. But I do respect the opinions of alot of you guys here so will be interested in getting feedback from others doing the practice this year.

I would say no. I asked Max about showing people the Kunlun practice and he said no. Also, I think I remember Mantra saying the book carries it's own transmission. The book is $15. It's not like they are charging people thousands of dollars for the information. Cameron

From my limited understanding Nei Kung implies Alchemy and inner work. More inner meditations and practices. Like Red Phoenix that Max teaches, Kan and Li that Winn teaches etc seem to be what Nei Kung is about. Qigong is more like excercise. Movements and practices that build qi or stretch the body but don't necissarily work with the deep channels(like Red Phoenix, Kan and Li etc) Am always open to learn more about this though for sure.

LOL. Ok, it's dropped. I guess I will have to get used to reading you call one of my teachers a charlatan over and over here. How fun.

Childish tendency? You come here out of the blue calling a teacher alot of us enjoy studying with a liar, a charlatan etc and you call that childish tendency? Are you smoking crack? Anyway, I didn't realize Kunlun was "your practice". But as you study with one of the highest Masters living(Haven't we heard all this before but with slighly better manners?) your all set then. So are you going to leave after trolling us or do you have anything positive to say?

I am all for good humor but that was not what I was referring to. When someone calls one of your teachers a liar,a fake, a charlatan, low level, etc, etc. Sorry, not funny to me. Sean illustrated this point better in another thread. It's cool to be yang about your views and express yourself without resorting to trash talking. Especially when it is obviously apparent that you really don't know what you are talking about.

Wierd. I just tried it and tons of threads came up.

Seriously, I think one of the main things that is a shame is what we miss out on by having these sorts of attitudes. I mean, could you imagine if Taoist students and teachers really had mutual respect and could freely exchange knowledge without worrying? Probably the lack of communication has something to do with it. Actually, on that small video of Max talking on Kunlunbliss he talks about this exact subject. How people from Kunlun don't like Mao Shan because they are into Magic. People from Wudang don't like Kunlun because it's esoteric etc. I could be getting the order of the schools and who they like or don't like wrong just using as an example. So, if it has been going on like that in China for thousands of years probably it's not that big a mystery why it translates over here. Ultimatly, things are the way they are.

Try Lama Dorje. Hope that is helpful