Cameron

Actually..to add to what some others on this thread have said. The question for us so called spiritual people should not be how do you learn. The question should be how do you unlearn? I say meditation,self inquirey and study with an 'awake' teacher are the primary paths. But there are probably many roads to truth.

Exactly.

I don't know if this has been said before. But it occured to me a few weeks ago that an actual bush would be a better president than dubya. A tree would probably be a great president.

Would be nice to cultivate more of a sense of appreciation for eachother on taobums rather than a competitive kind of energy. Is Taoism about arguing and competition? My feeling is we can all learn from eachother. I certainly know less about Taoism than many others on this board and am open to learning .I find it very interesting. But I also find other traditions like Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Sufism etc equally interesting. I guess it can be fun to argue fine points about what this or that ancient philosopher said but wouldn't it be better to just enjoy eachothers wisdom and learn? Like a Tao/Spiritual classroom with no teacher...mostly students..hehe.

ps. Sorry..have to add to this..it's too deep a question for one sentence. I think the richness of Taoism and all it's practices(approaches)can be embraced while at the same time following the no approach-approach to practice(and life or posting on the internet). For example, my Taoist teacher Ken Cohen classifies two types of meditation-sitting and forgetting and active meditation which to me have more of an approach or involvment of mind doing something. But Ken makes the distinction that sitting and forgetting is the most important aspect of practice. And from what I have experienced being with what I would term 'awake' people this is where the real juice is. What happens when you don't go to the mind for an approach or explanation of who you or anyone else is? These are the question that most interest me.

To not have an approach

stand/sit and realize that your both nothing and everything or whatever your drawn to

no problem. NOW..to fully uncover/open to/awaken to that nothing and embody it in every day life is a whoooooole other matter(for me). If I had to guess the whole process of uncovering/unvieling, stabilizing and then embodying can take many,many years. But it's nice to feel somewhat oriented in this journey!

I had this thing come up yesterday where it was like presence before the personality. Sort of hard to talk about. Sort of that primordial being that is before(and after?!) YOU. And I agree with what others on this thread are saying it's like this innocent, open spacious mind. Actually even to call it mind feels like too much because mind implies a SOMETHING. When the best description of THAT seems to be nothing. Not A NOTHING..but just nothing. Prior to self other duality WHAT IS. WHO/WHAT is this looking out of your eyes?

This is a pretty big question for me. At heart my take is that law of attraction has alot of positive things but where it falls apart in respect to awakening or enlightenment is the center of LOA..you..is seen through. If "you" are no longer the main attraction of your life LOA isn't so interesting. By the same token, we see many people in the "dream state" have great success in wordly matters, making money, attracting what they want. I was actually thinking of starting this thread yesterday saying how awakening is bs and LOA is where it is at to become "successful". But at this moment I have doubts about that. Adyashanti said something that I think sums it up well. Someone asked him about law of attraction, attracting the business, the woman that he wanted to him and how that related to awakening. Adya said with LOA you try to get the girl that you want. When your awake, if the girl that you want wants to be with someone else your so happy for her that she got what she wanted. Thoughts?

She is

Someone told me this guy is a realized being. His website Sailor Bob And here is a page run by this guy named Cameron with hours of free podcasts with Bob talking. Advaita show Cam

UP. In case anyone hasn't listened to the Advaita show. Free podcasts with awakened Australian dude Sailor Bob Adamson. Also, very fun show. If you haven't listened to some episodes check it out.

Ime listening to some Sailor Bob as I just read Aiwei's post and I think he touches on the same thing. What Bob says-very simply-is that all karma is based on the thought that a seperate "I" exists and the "I thoughts" basically being the cause of karma. In other words, he says all karma is based on belief in ego. So in order to end karma-see that there never was or is an "I" in the first place-just a thought. The tricky part is most people have put so much time and energy into the "I thought" that to just say see that it doesn't exist is quite challening(if seeing that even interests to you to begin with) No "I"-no karma-no cause, no effect. Sounds pretty much what the Buddha talked about to me. Just fun to here it from this down to Earth Australian dude. ps. Go to the Sailor Bob thread I just sent to the top and check out episode #35 of the Advaita Show. Bob talks about this in great detail.

I think of it more like freedom from ego rather than egolessness. To me, egolessness is not really what it's about. Like if ego is a jacket..you know it's a jacket that you can take off any time..rather than never wearing a jacket..or mask..or whatever. The whole freedom thing seems to be what it's all about. You know when you see those fat buddha statues who are just beaming and have there arms spread out wide..hehe.

Yes, going to Boulder in Nov for 3 day workshop with Ken and Taoist Priest Master Tseng. I'll probably write about it in my journal after.

OK

How is your health? Feeling good/ok?

Maybe..maybe not..it might have some benefit. I can't say for sure.

right..exactly...and yet we still love to think about not thinking and talk about just being

I have met him twice and doing a workshop with him in a few months on Taoist Qigong.

The first time I went to see Adyashanti I kept getting this thought come up in my mind over and over "already too much". I don't know if this was just mental chatter or some deep communication from spirit. But the way I take it after sitting with a couple awakened people in the VERY FIRST INSTANT THE EGO TRIES TO DO SOMETHING this is "already too much". Trying to just be-ALREADY TOO MUCH EFFORT. Trying to be quiet-ALREADY TOO MUCH EFFORT. Trying to be still-ALREADY TOO MUCH EFFORT. What I try to do when I sit now is nothing-rest in primordial presence. Rest in "I AMmness". Thoughts come and go like storms in the sky.Storms may come and make alot of noise but eventually they pass and the sky is quiet again. When it rains you don't think OMG! Rain! It's so wet! How long is this rain going to go on for! Why is it raining! What is rain! Rain,rain,rain,rain.. No..you notice it's raining..and that's about it..the rain stops when it stops. Same with mind, you notice there are thoughts(rain)and that's about it. It does whatever it does and stops whenever it stops. There is no controller because there is no self. But we all have a tendency for very strong ego clinging and identification which can take along time to see through. I have been at it for over 10 years now and even still get caught in the pull of ego and have "ego storms" come up.

hehe..he is one of my teacher's so I notice. Glad you liked his book.

OK