Cameron

If anyone is questioning if they are gay.. link I passed on everything except that I like Coldplay. I can't lie they are awesome!

From my post on the last page. Try to pay attention. And there is nothing gay about the movie Zoolander girls love this movie. Not that there is anythting wrong with gay people..just saying.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=H9TeFtLOwd4

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hehe..sorry... Seriously though is tennis considered gay?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I think the time has come my friends..for Derek and Sean to have a walkoff.(Or Sean D and Pietro, Or Sean D and Spyrelx etc) link

Your better off that way, believe me.

Fair and balanced!

umm..ok..I guess that works. Of course that would totally discount what Plato told me that Master Nan is basically a fully enlightened Buddha and got all these superpower attainments since he was in his 20's. So he hasn't got enlightened until the last 10 years? Ime guessing atleast Max would disagree with that. But who knows. Ok, bottom line you go and study with whoever your spiritually attracted to(unless they ban you from training for publishing there secret teachings on Tao Bums or something)

I don't want to make an issue out of this. But I am pretty sure David said Master Nan is not enlightened and am pretty sure Max knows what I am talking about as he responded in that thread. Again, no big deal I guess..I don't think anyone is getting karmically fucked for stating there opinions..but was just interested how Max viewed that. It's really not a big deal if people don't want to get into this as niether Master Nan or David are my teachers, was just interested in the overall approach of studying with spiritual teachers who teach diffferent stuff or don't really think the other is "all that". ps. I just reviewed the thread and definetly David said Master Nan is not enlightened. No judgement on my part I don't have a clue as I have never met Master Nan or David and wouldnt' even know the criteria David uses to judge a true "Xian".

So does your intuition tell you this is the thing to do? You don't agree with Bodri/Nan that your better off just doing emptiness meditation and letting things go naturally? I read on David's forum that David doesn't think Master Nan is enlightened after meeting him? Not trying to start any drama-seriously-but how do you reconcile being such a big follower of Master Nan and then wanting to train with David after he said that? Ime genuinly interested as I have a hard time with that. For example, I had a pretty good friend and teacher say he thought Adyashanti said something not enlightened after which I basically stopped studying with him. It's not that he doesn't have the right to his own view but this was another guy I was studying with and I have to priorotize(I consider Adya my main teacher). It's like I wouldn't study BK Frantzis method and HT method together as they basically say the other is inferior. David said more..he flat out wrote Master Nan is not enlightened or a sage(Xien). Where do these opposing views meet? Or you want to go learn the practice yourself to find out?

All good So when is the trip to Europe for foundation training?

Oh well, it was a fun idea, even if it was "low class"

Max, For all intents and purpouses Sean D is Davids representative here. I mean he says he isn't(I think?)But let's be honest, he runs the website for David's students and is an inner circle student of David(Was invited to the special ceremony where Taoists all over China adopted David or something,right?) It was Sean D's idea in the first place(He said we should sponsor Yoda to go) I thought it would be fun..yes fun..as in not some karmically fucking heavy situation where Buddhas and Immortals for the next 10,000 aeons are going to spit on you if you fuck up..but fun. Like Plato's trip to see Master Nan or something, right? Whether everyone gets behind this idea or not I have no attachment to and to be honest could care less. But I think it would be a cool, fun thing to do. The reality is most of us don't have the extra time or extra money to go out of our way for a month to go to China and just believe what some total stranger on an interent discussion board says is the truth. So basically..my view is if we sent someone we all know and trust..whoever that would be..then they came back and tell us if this is for real and it isn't a scam or a repackaged version of "Taoist Alchemy". But no big deal, it's not like it's up to you or me. Hope you have fun in the Denmark class and achieve whatever goal your seeking though

Sean D mentioned this in another thread I think this is a golden idea. Let's face it, Lei Shan Dao training in China is very expensive. But the mere chance that it is for real and what these guys like Sean D and David Shen Verdesi are claiming to have come in contact with demands attention and study. The way I see it, before I would feel comfortable dropping money and time-sounds like almost a month? I would want someone I know and trust to go and give real feedback. In my view it would have to come down to one of either 3 Tao Bums, Yoda, Sean Omlor or Kieth Franzen. Either of these 3 dudes I would feel 100% sure would give us accurate,down to earth feedback on what they saw and experienced. Ime not saying they would have to teach us what they learned in the training but just report honestly on what they experienced, meeting Immortals, people walking through walls, reproducing bodies, flying etc(all of which have been reported on the Foundation training board). Financially, it sounds like the trip costs $7500? I don't know if that covers ticket, hotel room or whatever. But if 100 Tao Bums chipped in 75-100 each that should cover it I guess. I think one of the 3 mentioned should be sponsered by TB's to go on one of the trainings in 2008. Either Yoda, Sean O or Kieth F would be my votes for giving the most fair and balanced report on what's really going on. I am presuming any of these guys would jump at the chance at such an opportunity and it really isn't alot for us to give considering the quality of feedback we would get.

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I removed the silly comment about peoples girlfriends or wives. No love lost. I still think your a cool dude. Can we still be friends? Let's just keep this focused on your/your teachers work and not bring comparisons to other peoples work and I think this whole thing will sail smoothly. Cam

Ok. I have met him. Sean has met him. We are doing a retreat with him this year. No big deal. I think the work you are doing is too important to let this little issue of manners get in the way. You really have too much to offer and it's way too interesting. Just as a courtesy if you could just refrain from that kind of silly comparisons I would appreciate it. Actually, truth be told, Adyashanti has made a point in both of the intensives I went to that in his opinion Taoists explain reality really well. All respect to Master Wang LiPing on just reputation alone.

Sean D, I think this is a great idea and hope to see one of us get to do this but please, as a basic respect, refrain from comparing your teacher(or your teachers teacher) to any of our teachers. Each human being has there own worth and you can't possibly say from your vantage point(even if you are hooked in with the 'God men') what ultimate good dharma activity one teacher will do or how much "better" they are than another. I am not even presuming Adyashanti(Or any western teacher) is on the same level as Wang LiPing(or whoever) but to make these sort of comparisons I think brings down the level of our conversations and respect here. What I am basically saying is I think even if there is truth to what your saying(I don't think Adya would even have a problem being called inferior to Wang LiPing, he would probably laugh at the comparison) We simply don't need to resort to this kind of grade school level communication. Respectfully, Cameron

Nothing special is the highest stage of qigong training according to Ken Cohen. The four stages he talks about in his book are: 1.The great expert:You just learned a qigong system other people don't know and you are pretty important. 2.The big potatoe:You have learned several qigong systems and are very important now. 3.Banana head:You have gone deeper into qigong training and like Socrates you "Know that you don't know". You feel silly about your previous self importance. 4. Nothing special. You finally return to nature. Things are just as they are.

I would say I really want one of us to go. I don't say it necissarilly should be me because I think Sean O, Spyrelx etc would do a fantastic job. The way I see it sending Sean or Spyrelx who aren't necissarly fantastically excited(or maybe it's just there style to be laid back?) makes the whole presentation they would make more objective and scientific. If Sean had strong beleif that David Shen Verdesi's teachers can do all the amazing things he says and are Immortal etc it would be less of a reason to even do this IMO. We might as well just listen to what people on the Lei Shan Dao foundation forum say about there experience(which from what I can gather they are very limited in talking about..or don't care to). Cam

I wouldn't say no. But it is a big responsibility. We should discuss it carefully and see who is really the best person to do it. For example, Spyrelx sounds like he is relatively profficient in video stuff to document the whole thing. I am guessing it would be relatively simple to do(Get a good camcorder?) Sean I think would add a strong critical and scientific eye(as would I). But also respectful, etc.

I like Pietro's idea but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. We still need to see if we have enough support for this. Like I said, 100 tao bums would have to be willing to give like $70 each(unless people start giving large amounts or something). As of right now I don't see anywhere near the interest needed to make this happen .We should get that cleared up first, then implement something along the lines of what Pietro is saying.

Michael, Trunk and Yoda have already stated they arent interested. They were both my first choices along with sean. Spyrelx would be objective but I think Sean would be able to give us the best overall picture. But if more people get behind Spyrelx or someone else it would still be a good thing.

Pietro's views towards Max are silly. His own teacher BK Frantzis was heavily in Zen before going to Taoist arts. This prerequisite to be a 'pure' Taoist is nonsense. I put my final vote in for Sean to go. That's all I have to say. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

It's not until next year and if the board supports it I say Sean is the one to go. I don't think any of the requirmentes Sunshine mentioned are necissary before training arent those after you learn the foundation training? In any case Ime sure Sean wouldn't have any problem with the meditation I can't say about 4 months celibacy and don't think Sean D mentioned anything like that.