Cameron

Welcome Eric. The past is gone, today is a new day. Ime sure you have alot of positive things to share with us . God bless, Cameron

Actually, this attitude I think makes Sean an excellent canditate. We could be sure he would put his integrity and attention to truth above anything else. Not to mention his deep connection to the forum itself(he runs it) would mean we would have our own trustworthy, accessible, long term feedback on this matter. Also, taking into consideration what Sean D said..this does no imply one must make a 3 year committment before giving feedback. That would be ridiculous .What we are looking for is someone we all trust giving us an honest account of what's up with this Lei Shan Dao stuff. So my first vote would be for Sean to go. Obviously if he doesn't want to for some reason I would be willing to go. But we all need to give feedback, discuss it, meditate on it etc. Let's try to have some idea of who will go(and if even enough people are committed to giving $) by the end of May.

Let's just let everyone respond and give feedback for a couple weeks and the universe will decide who/if anyone should go on this important mission. Cam ps. Looking forward to all of you who are going this year's feedback also, Derek, Sunshine etc. possibly Max to Denmark.

Let me restate I think the idea is to have someone who was 'on the ropes' or even someone who had no intention of going to go and has been around this community for an extended period of time. Thats' why my first votes were for Yoda, Kieth(Trunk) or Sean O .Yoda nd Kieth arent interested so that leaves Sean O for my vote. If Spyrelx and Wayfarer are interested that's great. I think what we should do is let this thread tell us-over the next several weeks or so-what type of interest there is for this and if people are actually interested in giving. Originally I said it would take like 100 Tao Bums giving like 75-100 each but since Sean D has committed to giving $1000 that really means 100 TB's only need to give like $70 each. Obviously some might want to give more or less whatever. So everyone give there vote and if you would be willing to put in the $ and let's see what comes up. actually I think Spyrelx would probably be a good canditate also but if only ne eprson is going I have to vote for Sean O,Smile..or myself.

So far it sounds like Yoda and Kieth are out. Sean O doesn't seem to be around but I am guessing he would definetly be interested? I could be wrong of course. But if Sean O is interested I think he should definetly be on the list to give objective feedback. He's TTB's webmaster for Chrissake Ime sure he would give good feedback. I wouldnt' presume for us not to pay the idea here is we all pitch in for one of us the board/group as a whole thinks has integrity and will give unbiased, clear view of the anture of the practice and it's worth. I dont' mean to imply they would just be going to see people light things on fire and walk through walls.Obviously the major purpouse to is to be respectful of the traditon and learn the practice. But lets face it it's an expensive tradition. I didn't mention Smile at first since he is basically already converted and seems to mostly beleive what Sean D is saying. The idea was to send one of us who is 'on the ropes' so to speak, doesnt' really know what to make of all this. But of course is interested and would be willing to get down and do some practice and research/has an open mind etc. Maybe we should start another thread to actually see who would even be willing to contribute and how much they would be willing to contribute.

If people got behind it of course I would be willing to go/wouldn't say no. So your flat out not interested then? If that's the case we should add Smile and maybe a few other names to the running or something and see what happens. This is all presumimg that a large # of Tao Bums would be willing to pitch in .I guess we will need to see if this even something the larger community is interested in first.

Of course, more may be added to the pot. The primary reason I vote for either of the 3 I mentioned is because I know each of these guys to be deeply honest and would put the integrity of what they see highly. I am good friends with Max and deifnetly would put him on the roster if it was only me voting but I see Max as someone who already has a strong belief in things like superpowers. Same thing with Plato, he already told me in person things he experienced with Master Nan that would make it a mute point what he said about Lei Shan Dao. Bottom line, I think either Yoda, Sean O or Kieth(Trunk) would give very accurate feedback. If the master swears them to secrecy? Obviously if they are not allowed to speak about what they see and experience there would be no point to it at all. I don't mean they have to talk about what they learn. Essentially return with an attitude saying "This is for real..this is what you should spend your time and energy pursuing..it's the shit", or "Don't waste your money..it's just qigong with smoke and mirrors".

This is actually a pretty interesting idea. The way I see it..I don't really know Sean D. I mean, all the mind boggling things we have heard about are interesting but to have one of our own and more down to earth or even skeptical members..like Yoda or Sean Omlor go to Foundation Training in China and come back to give us an unbiased report of what's going on would be cool. From what I understand there are something like 1000 Tao Bums. If just 100 of us pitched in $75 that would be enough to send Yoda, Sean O or whoever to China. Actually..since money is the major issue(and time) I think that would be a great idea. Only thing I don't know if Yoda has even expressed interest in going and I know he hates to travel. But Ime guessing if we somehow all pitched in and paid for it his ass would get in gear

You have to look at the bigger picture.We are all shaped in large part by our envioronments and the people we meet. Sean D spent years with Healing Dao and then found David Shen. David's teachers basically told him HT practices screwed him up and it took him twice the amount of time to do Lei Shan Dao foundation practice then it would otherwise. HT practices create "sick,twisted qi" in Sean D's words. Sean is a relative beginner of Lei Shan Dao and heavily involved in his teachers transmission of these practices(through his website and courses) I am personally grateful for the work Sean is doing even if it does rub people the wrong way at times. How many people do you know who's teachers are doing personal training with Wang LiPing? Ken Cohen is one of those rare people who I think got really top notch instrucion from an early age. He was one of BP Chan's first american students in NY as a teenager and was standing for an hour a day and learning to speak chinese fluently at an age most of us didn't know what Taoism was. He 'accidently' bumped into a Taoist Priest in a bookstore one day who he immedietly became friends with and his student(I don't think his teacher was teaching publicly). He became the disciple of Native Indian shaman Rolling Thunder at a pretty young age etc. So he was getting pretty high level instruction from authentic sources pretty early. I also consider Ken my first qigong teacher so alot of how I relate to other pracitioners I get from my meeting with him and studying his work. In general he is respectful, humble, down to earth. Ime also incredibly interested in checking out Master Tseng who is an authentic lineage Taoist teaching in Colorado.

I ordered the Wudang Yang Sheng Qigong DVD. Will give some feedback after I practice it for a few weeks. Looks like Master Tseng also teaches Alchemy but only in person. link

Yes but that would be a clear sign that your system or teacher sucks

Right. To use like a martial arts analogy. There is a difference between someone that spends 20 years cross training in different arts but never spending time to get a black belt or master one of them. But those years are not wasted time. Probably still can be alot of fun. I wasn't really putting you in the clueless beginner category either.

And there you have it. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound offensive to Master Mantak Chia my lady. By all means follow your higher guidance to whichever source. As I told you Michael Winn would be the person to talk to if your drawn to the HT approach and it looks like you posted your question over on the HT board. Good luck.

Originally from my aikido and zen training. Basically the area below the navel,midway inside the body. Between the gate of life on the lower back and the navel. All of the high level internal MA practitioners seem to agree with this. Basically it's your physical/energetic/spiritual center. The same place Japanese call 'hara' basically. Also, I remember reading enlightened Zen masters like Hakuin writing that the lower abdomen is the tan or tanden. Most all the western qigong teachers seem to say the same. So are we all dazed and confused Derek? ps.I am genuinly interested in hearing your feedback from foundation training in Lei Shan Dao this year.

I think alot of stuff from those books are fun. I used to do the God and Goddess meditation. Obviously Chia,Winn,Yudelove all those guys didn't spend decades learning nothing. There is some cool stuff in that lineage. We are deifnetly at a crossroads. Learning lots of cool new stuff. Most of all of us here are pretty clueless beginners finding our way. I think the smoke will probably clear a bit over the enxt few years and we will have a better understanding about all this Taoist stuff.

edit. DanTiens are cool.

edit. Tantiens are awesome.

edit. Dantiens are most excellent dude.

edit. Dantiens are cool.

Oooooooooooooooold news...I probably shouldn't have even mentioned that but it was almost like a "shared karma" with the board at the time.

Wow..just felt drawn to reading this thread I wrote almost 2 years ago. In many ways I am returning to where I began this year. I stated practing Aikido again and deeper into meditation. Mostly I follow the teaching of the Adveita/Zen teacher Adyashanti and still sticking with practices I learned from Ken Cohen. Very happy with how things are progressing.

'The Secret' thread is nice but I think we have been beating around the bush. As so many of us here are "energy workers" of one type or another I think it would be interesting to open up a discussion on what all of our realationship is to money. Being in business and talking with some of you personally I know it's something most all of us deal with everyday. I certainly do. So how do you all deal with this powerful energy we call money? How do you view it in terms of your spiritual cultivation and realationships with others? Where do you see money as a tool for personal growth? a teacher? a burden? A motivator? For me it's interesting to see where the boundary of where ego or self centeredness ends and helping others begins. For example, some people have commented that the "Secret" type of work is materialistic. But from the persective of oneness is there really any seperation between the material and the spiritual? In many ways arent they directly related? Also, can't the 'manifestaiton' type of stuff be used to serve as much as for personal desires? For me, it sounds rather shallow to say "I want to become a millionaire" That might work great for others. But when I say "I want to become a millionaire so my parents don't have to work anymore". Or "I want to become a millionaire so I have more opportunities to study my spiritual interests and about enlightenment" This seems to change the energy of the desire, or gives it a purer type of energy. So what do you think and feel? Maybe some of you came from a situation where money was always lacking and alot of the challenge is overcoming this internal sense of "lack". Where some people just seem to easily attract what we call "abundance". If so, how do you think these issues are best healed or dealt with? Where do positive attraction and thinking and negative attraction and thinking meet and transform into the other? I have even read posts of some of you who apparently think of material things as "bad" and give them away. Where do material things or material success become a bad thing and spiritual success become good? Are one and the other compatible? If not, why not? Is it a quesiton of greed/ego? Not having merit? Not caring about other people? Not having a sense of compassion? Not being self centered enough? Ok..

I like this course. By far the two best Matt Furey products for people to get are combat conditioning and Magnetic Mind Power.

The question of reducing your ego or expanding your ego via Taoist practice is interesting. When Ken Cohen talks about a sort of awakening he had through qigong he says he realized "center everywhere, circumfrence nowhere". To me this is a wonderful explanation but not really a state of ego expansion since the nature of the experience is the dissolution of the seperate "I" thought to expanding to encompass..well..everywhere is everywhere. To say this state is like an enlarged ego or something I think is interesting but not really how most enlightened people describe it. I guess it works if you like. Mabe it comes down to the difference of explanation of the Atman of Hinduism and the Non-Atman-no self-of Buddhism. Whether you conceive of that sort of ultimate reality as a giant all encompassing self or giant empty no self.. Like I said about the 'Secret'..I much rather be surrounded by positive ego's than negative one's..so probably it's good.

Great! I like your approach and don't find anything "wrong" with it. Michael is a good guy I think his stuff is interesting. I would much rather be surrounded with positive, life affirming ego's than negative, destructive ego's Those few I have met that are awakened represent for me something "better". But I don't think it's something that one "manifests" so much as "allows". But, then again, your girl Esther Hicks now calls her work "The art of allowing". Interesting stuff...need a lifetime to meditate on it