Cameron

It's a deep and interesting question. I have been thinking about this pretty deeply myself lately. To sum up my take on all this at this time:all the manifestation stuff is based on ego desire. If you awaken, the ego is no longer at the forefront of your experience of life. The non stop interest in the self and what the self wants is no longer the major driving force of what's going on here. In effect..awakening changes the priorities. Ime not there yet by a long shot. 99% of the people I deal with on a daily basis arent there yet. But like I told Jeannie Zandi when I sat with her last month. "You know, it's nice being with someone like you..you sort of realize your self is not confined to this little me. It also involves..you know..like the rest of the universe". I don't think there is anything wrong with material success and it certainly can make the whole experience of life go easier. I guess it's something we all need to go deeply into ourselves and find the answers to. These deep, deep questions.

That was sort of sad to see Crocop just smashed like that. Ime sure he'll be back. Ime losing interest in watching MMA since starting Aikido again. The whole attitude of wanting to fight to knock another guy senseless seems silly to me. Its such a limited,small perspective to confine martial arts to the concepts of winning and losing, kill or be killed. I think Aikido and Chinese IMA transcend the self/other and winning/losing concept by taking into view ones own thoughts,intention etc. One thing I do like about Fedor though he's so neutral. Like even when he wins by choking a guy you never see any anger or fear on his face. He has really taken MMA to the level of "sport" which I think is quite different from Wushu and using MA as a vehicle of cultivation and improving ones character.

dude.

What TaoBums are on Myspace? I get extra credit in my E Business class for getting a MySpace page. I know some of you must be on there besides just Sean.

I was driving behind a car the other day that said West Chester PA on the back of it. True story!

Just read about him on the HT board. Says he is a senior student of Dragon Gate Master Wang Li Ping and lives and teaches in LA? Kieth check it out!! link

Oooops! David Shen Verdesi says on his forum that Dr.Chang only studied with Wang Liping for 2 months. Though he does say if Chang has been practicing what he learned in those two months he is probably highly achieved now. Sounds like David and Wang Liping are pretty tight. Whatever the deal is it's still obviously a cool thing for David to open up these communications with "Real" Taoists. Actually, I don't know enough about it to compare, but Ken Cohen's Taoist teacher was a Dragon Gate(longmen) Taoist Abbot. No idea if anything he learned is similar to anyhting WangLiPing teaches .Maybe I'll ask Ken next time I see him.

I tried to elarn years ago by enrolling in a class at a community college but all the other students were Chinese and were basically already fluent and taking the class for an easy A. I dropped it as they would spend the class speaking with the teacher while I was still trying to learn basic stuff. Ime too busy with stuff now but if I get motivated to learn would probably enroll in a college course to get started.

Oh ok. I must have read somehting wrong over there .Maybe that was just the price for lodging and accomodations or something. Anyway, If I ever did it wouldn't be until atleast 2009 so by then we should have some good feedback.

The main issue I see is we havent had enough time to see what kind of results people are getting from the Lei Shan Dao practices. Basically, we have Sean telling us it's the shit and everything we think we know is BS. Obviously, if that's true no problem. I appreciate the wake up call. But would just like to get more feedback from other practitioners who go and study with David and his teachers. As you said, these questions will all get answered over the next few years.

Thanks, very interesting forum. It was interesting to read the prices David is charging for the foundation training are quite different than what I had thought. From what I understand, the foundation training in Lei Shan Tao for 20 days including room,board and meals comes to like $2400? If that's accurate that is a much diffrent picture than others had painted where it was like $7500 for a weekend seminar or something. It's definetly piqued my interest. I'll probably check out the video and Ime sure Darabek and others will share some of there experiences here from the training.

Damn! Liiiiiiiiiiiiiloooooooooooooooou.

???

Ime going to have to agree with what alot of others are saying. How you could have this much committment and focus to achive your goals while not going and seeing some teachers and getting feedback along the way is mind boggling. I mean, what if the translation you read was wrong? Anyway, god bless you. Good luck on your path and meeting a teacher to help guide you.

Adyashanti live radio. Premiere broadcast is tomorrow. Listen if you wish. Cafe Dharma

Let's start a thread with clips from MA Masters. I'll start, The late Sifu Kenny Gong

link

Indeed.

Yes, I do listen to him quite a bit.

I was doing some research online and ran into this site in Colorado Springs. Not sure what level of expertise the teachers are at but looks interesting enough to check out. link edit-cool, I didn't notice until going over the site. The teacher is authorized to teach by Ken Cohen .Looks like he completed the qigong training program I am thinking about doing.

From link A famous meeting Bodhidharma sailed to China in 521. When he disembarked at the port city of Canton, he was received with great ceremony by a local official, Shao Ang, who immediately reported Bodhidharma's arrival to Emperor Wu of the Liang dynasty. The emperor ordered the official to accompany the monk to the capital, Chienkang (now Nanking). Emperor Wu was a devoted Buddhist who had spent a lot of money building temples and duplicating Buddhist scriptures, and he treated Buddhist monks with great reverence. Many government officials followed suit, but they were only playing up to the emperor in the hope of being promoted. When the Emperor Wu met Bodhidharma, there transpired a now-famous conversation between the two. The emperor spoke to the monk very politely. "I have built many temples and translated the sutras into Chinese. I have also laid down the rules for people who want to join the ranks of monks or nuns. Furthermore, I have ruled my kingdom in accordance with the Buddha's teachings. Do I gain any merit from all this? Will I eventually become a buddha?" Bodhidharma looked at him calmly and replied, "Your Majesty, you have no merit at all." The emperor, displeased, asked him, "Why is that?" Bodhidharma replied, "What Your Majesty has been doing belongs to the merit of Hinayana Buddhism, and you will never be truly freed from endless reincarnation." Emperor Wu asked again, "Then what is real merit?" Bodhidharma answered, "True merit comes from unselfish giving, spiritual cultivation, and dedication to the Buddha and to all living creatures. If Your Majesty can do all this, you will gain true merit." The emperor was not happy with this reply or with the monk, and he started to doubt his true identity. In order to find out whether he was really who he claimed to be, Emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma, "What is the first sacred law of Buddhism?" Bodhidharma replied, "There is no such law in Buddhism." Emperor Wu asked very angrily, "Do you know who is standing before you?" Bodhidharma replied, "No, I don't." What was going on here? Was Bodhidharma out of his mind or was his head still spinning from seasickness after travelling from India to China by boat? No, it was nothing like that. Through their conversation, Bodhidharma knew that Emperor Wu was only interested in gaining merits and attaining buddhahood, but that he had no understanding of the essence of Buddhism. In the end, Bodhidharma left the palace and went north. As he traveled, he kept hearing talk of Shaolin Temple in Henan Province. The temple had been founded in 496 in honor of an Indian monk named Brahdra, whom Emperor Hsiao Wen of the Northern Wei dynasty had invited to China to preach Buddhism. Bodhidharma had known Brahdra in India, so he decided to go to his temple. Brahdra was delighted to see an old friend and told his students to take good care of him. Bodhidharma meditated before a huge rock in a cave for nine years, in order to find the next patriarch of the Chan sect. It was the beginning of winter when a monk named Shen Kuang (487-593) came to Shaolin Temple. He sincerely told Bodhidharma that he had been searching for a wise teacher to enlighten him, but the old monk seemed to ignore his plea. Shen Kuang thought to himself that the journey to enlightenment was often full of danger, so how could he leave simply because this great monk ignored him? He decided to stand outside Bodhidharma's door to show his resolve. It snowed that night. The snow covered Shen Kuang's feet, but he just stood there. Eventually the snow piled up to his waist. However, he simply stood there and quietly recited Buddhist scriptures. Bodhidharma had in fact seen Shen Kuang, but he was not sure whether the young man was just another curious visitor. Seeing Shen Kuang standing there in the snow, Bodhidharma was touched and asked, "Aren't you cold?" Shen Kuang was a bit surprised to hear Bodhidharma speak to him, but he answered politely, "No, I am not. I am here to learn from you, Master." Bodhidharma then asked him, "What do you want to learn?" Shen Kuang replied, "I want to learn the great compassionate spirit of Buddhism so that I can help the suffering people in the world!" Bodhidharma tested him by saying, "Well, your vow is very lofty, but I am not sure if you can keep it. You should go do something else, or you'll be wasting your time and mine." Shen Kuang firmly believed he could achieve his goal, so he went back to the temple kitchen, took out a knife, and returned to the cave. There he suddenly chopped off his left hand and placed it before Bodhidharma. The old monk then fully realized how sincere the young monk really was. "You are willing to cut off your hand to show your sincerity and determination. This shows that you can comprehend the Buddha's teachings. Now I will rename you Hui Ko." Hui Ko then applied snow to his wound and wrapped up his injured hand with a piece of his clothing. He then asked Bodhidharma to bring tranquility to his mind. Bodhidharma said to him, "Take out your mind." Hui Ko realized then that after studying Buddhism for so many years, he still had not comprehended the true meaning of "mind" and did not know where to find it. At that moment, Bodhidharma shouted at him, "Hui Ko!" Hui Ko was stunned, but his mind suddenly became completely tranquil. Bodhidharma said to him, "I have brought tranquility to your mind." At this, Hui Ko was enlightened and began a new life. News of Hui Ko's enlightenment spread, and many monks came to Shaolin Temple to ask Bodhidharma to accept them as his students.

Cool.

I guess I would be interested in any objective reasons you would choose the others. I mean, you say nothing personal but don't give any impersonal reasons. For example: He's a really good teacher but teacher X has better Tai Chi form. He knows the classics but teacher X has a higher awareness. etc.etc.

Any particular reason you wrote this? I don't know Ken personally but enjoyed the 2 times we met and would definetly consider him one of the top American qigong teachers.