Creation

Very interesting Ulises! This is the attitude that I have tended towards as well. But Vivekananda's vision does give one pause (if one believes in such things, as I do).

That phrase appears in the book of Daniel. But the Book of Enoch was quoted in the epistle of Jude, iirc. There were lots of books that did not make it into the Bible but were nevertheless influential or highly regarded by the Catholic Chruch Fathers, or even the authors of the New Testament themselves. The Book of Enoch is one. It was never "banned". Actually, it is accepted as canonical in by Ethiopian Christians. "Lost Christianities" is a very interesting subject. I really wish people would treat it with more respect, rather than as just so much sensationalism.

Hi Dwai. I think it muddles the discussion to insist that "yoga" mean's "the system codified in Patanjali's yoga sutras". Buddhists were talking about yoga (e.g. the six yogas of Naropa) in a way that had nothing to do with Patanjali over a thousand years ago, and in modern Hinduism there is a common classification of yoga into four paths: bhakti, karma, jnana, and raja, only the latter being related to Patanjali's system. Hatha yoga, the basis of the stuff taught in "yoga classes" in the West today, originated among Tantrics, in particular the Nath tradition. The practices in Patanjali's system focus on seated meditation, not inverted postures, nauli kriya, vajroli mudra, etc. like those practicing Hatha yoga do. I don't mean to lecture you because I'm sure you know all this already. But like I said, why muddle the discussion by insisting on such a narrow definition of yoga, when the historical precedent is to do otherwise?

The fundamental flaw in the article to me was the following. The article correctly states, "Hatha originated as a way to speed the Tantric agenda." But the assumption the reader is left with from the rest of that article is that the "Tantric agenda" is intrinsically sexual. When in fact, sexual practices also originated as a way to speed the tantric agenda. So it is not that Hatha was created for sexual purposes, but that both Hatha and the sexual practices that the article references were means to the same end.

Come to think of it, I found these much more informative http://bayshakti.com/what-is-shiva-shakti-tantra-did-john-friend-make-it-up http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/02/sex-and-yoga-again-a-broad-and-distorted-view-of-yoga-history/ They were linked to in the article Dainin posted, which, after reading again, is much too flippant and sarcastic in tone to count as a serious rebuttal IMO.

And what did you think of the response Dainin posted?

I think the term comes from an analogy with electric circuits. It can happen that you build up a huge charge of energy through meditation, and get into a seriously altered state, especially if there is a lot of energy in your head. Grounding is important after meditation so that you don't only halfway come back to ordinary reality. The stereotype of a meditator who goes around with his head in the clouds all the time is an example of an ungrounded person. Now, staying grounded during meditation means not allowing the charge to build so strongly that you "blow a fuse". So you would want to train in a way that gradually builds your systems ability to handle increased voltage, so to speak, and develops your system's ability to "ground" excess charge in real time. Usually this involves the downward flow of energy into the earth, like a lightning rod.

Protip: anytime anyone says something about the Council of Nicea, it is probably wrong. The doctrine of reincarnation was officially condemned by Emperor Justinian some 200 years after the Council of Nicea. It was done against the wishes of the Pope, who Justinian had deposed and imprisoned. There were a plurality of views among Christians on the nature of the soul and the afterlife until an orthodox position was defined and enforced by imperial power. Some of these may have included a belief in reincarnation. But there a lot of things you can believe or not believe about reincarnation. I doubt that any early Christian believed that they were an animal in a previous life, even if they believed in reincarnation.

I noticed that the Bihar school has a translation of the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra out (with extensive comentary). Judging by the subtitles, the translation of/commentary on the Saundarya Lahari by the same author is intended as a sister volume. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Probably the one that you have a bunch of Tao Bum mutual friends with. [edit]Though I guess that might not apply to everyone asking that question... His facebook url is [obvious stuff]/sdobles

Hey, Santi! Nice to see you here. I've been enjoying listening to Aghora recently. I just realized how applicable this song is to this forum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXhtq4wUQ0 Vajrasattva ≠ Vajrahridaya

In yoga they call it pratyahara. From the different things I have read, this can mean everything from simply not paying attention to sensations and instead concentrating on the object of meditation, to quite literally turning the senses off completely. Or rather, unplugging them from the gigantic processing machine that is the mind. For information and instructions on the latter, check out Mark Griffin's podcasts Pratyahara Kunda 1-5 and Condensed Pratyahara 1-2 He recommends a specific energetic technique to accomplish it, which I did not have the skill to perform the times I tried it, but perhaps you do. Lots of great stuff in there regardless. Perhaps you would care to share some of the methods you have come across?

The Little Book of Hercules and the works of Swami Lakshman Joo are on my to read list as well. Here are two more from my backlog that you might be interested in. http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Power-Seekers-Guide-Kundalini/dp/0911307397/ http://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Comprehensive-Scriptures-Nondualistic-Traditions/dp/0887068014/

I've been hearing people talk about dubstep for a while now, but I've never gotten around to listening to any. Now, I've enjoyed music from many genres that a lot of people find unlistenable or obnoxious, e.g. rap, techno, various flavors of metal, classical. But I had to stop the first two videos posted in this thread. The fact that people around the world are going crazy for that kind of stuff is terrifying.

Wilhelm included a translation of parts of a text called the Huiming Jing in his edition of The Secret of the Golden Flower. Eva Wong translated the Huiming Jing as Cultivating the Energy of Life. I am not aware of any translation she did of The Secret of the Golden Flower.

Yes! Now if only I can do that with everything "spiritual", and actually, how about everything period? That would be freeing. But in saying that, am I not making the same error?

When I started reading about kundalini, I thought that it was an objective thing that could be pinned down: it has a particular location in the body, a particular path of development with precisely definable stages, etc. I believed this because that's how it was always presented. But the details always contradicted each other. When I saw these contradictions, I assumed it was because the different sources were at different levels of attainment, or were pushing dogma. E.g. maybe this person just experienced a lot of prana, and not kundalini, or they come from a tradition which is misinformed and that colors their perception. So I didn't believe most of what I read, but I believed that there were some who had very high attainment, and who were learned in all the lore of the Tantriks, yet didn't push dogma, but only what they had confirmed for themselves. Then these people would be the ones who actually knew about this particular "thing" called kundalini. Then I realized that even those people contradicted each other. Retaining my faith in the learning and attainment of people I looked up to, the only conclusion left for me was that the initial premise, that there is this "thing" called kundalini, with preciously definable characteristics and developmental stages for all people in all places at all times, was false. Whatever kundalini is, I am no longer going to treat it is something in a petri dish, as it were. My post was more of a expression of years of frustration finally coming out, prompted by a sincere seeker just starting his research being bombarded with contradictory information, than it was a statement of fact.

Your patronizing remark hurts my feelings.

This guy is saying stuff that you yourself said is wrong in another thread. I'm not going to believe anything I read on the internet about kundalini anymore. Everyone contradicts everyone else.

Thanks for posting the Bardo Thodol documentary Jetsun. I enjoyed that. I am coming to believe that a big element of what it means to grow spiritually is to go through things that most people go through at death, while still alive.

Not that I know anything about this stuff, but emptiness is a very technical term, and putting those statements next to each other... The guys at Dharma Overground or Kenneth Folk Dharma would definitely have some feedback for you.

Hi SereneBlue. This is a matter that interests me, actually. As far as I have heard, that this whole usage of vows (not vows in general, but vows to help all beings) is something completely unique to Mahayana Buddhism. Coming back to this realm to help even when you could just stay in higher realm is not, cultivating lovingkindness and compassion for all beings is not, but the idea that making adamantine Bodhisattva vows to aid all beings is absolutely necessary to attain true and complete liberation is unique to Mahayana. When I read Bodri say that you needed to do this to have sufficient momentum to break through to such and such a stage I was absolutely blown away. That idea is just not present in other paths. (If someone knows differently, I would be very interested to know.) I for one believe not every high level being that makes itself available to help us has made vows like this. But I also suspect that the whole "vow" thing is just a formalization of the virtue and noble intention that such a being already has anyway. So it might actually be functionally equivalent, when you strip away the dogma and formalities.

The person anamatva got Shaktipat from was also a student of Muktananda. My point was "same lineage". At any rate, I have seen that site, and continue to study with Mark.

anamatva, If you would be interested in a teacher who knows the territory from initial kundalini awakening all the way to enlightenment very very well, and teaches mainly by direct transmission, check out Mark Griffin. He was a student of Muktananda, as well as Trungpa Rinpoche and Kalu Rinpoche His students arrange to stream his programs (weekly evening programs and monthly intensives) over the internet, which is very convenient for those who can't make it to LA. Wishing you good fortune in your sadhana!

I don't think Lakshmi and Ganesha were ever considered bodhisattvas by Mahayanists, and Hindus don't have that conception of the vows of enlightened beings, so... There is an interesting chapter on Lakshmi in "Buddhist Goddesses of India" though. There is this whole question, "Just what is this mantra doing" and there are so many possible answers. Does Mr. Ashley-Farrand discuss what the mantras he teaches do on a technical level? Does he say they tune you in to actual beings, or tune your energy to align with a principle, or both, or neither, or something else?