Creation

Hi snowmonki. Thank you for giving such clear and detailed expositions of your understanding/experience with the water method. I was wondering, seeing as I was the one who "asked in another thread about this", would you please elaborate on the relation of dissolving to "'relaxation' techniques"? How do you approach the two differently? The particular methodologies are clearly different, although they both employ body scanning. But as I have continued to play around with dissolving, I came to the tenative conclusion dissolving (not the particular practice of dissolving, but the goal of said practice) and relaxation are in fact the same thing, but on different levels, that is, the dissolving of a blockage in your energy body is precisely the energy body analogy of the relaxing of tension in your physical body. Would you say that this is incorrect? Thanks.

Right, I have been playing with movie qigong, video game qigong, concert qigong, etc. since you first told me about it. But I got the impression that just as there is simultaneous stillness movement and movie watching, there is also simultaneous indulgence/immersion and non-indulgence/immersion. I say this because I wonder, how could you derive enjoyment from watching a movie if on some level you are not "getting into it"? When a person is touched by a great movie, book, etc. isn't it because on some level they identify with the characters or situations? And about the feeling of immersion, how would you relate being immersed in the plot of a movie or book to the immersion I suspect you feel on stage rocking the bass, and to staying in the stillness movement state?

Hi April and JJ. I would add a third category, people for whom it is not "on" all the time, but who can use a technique to raise it at will, like Michael Winn's experience here: http://www.healingtaobritain.com/p67magazinequestforspiritualorgasm.htm under the heading "Personal Account: Kundalini Rising in the West" And perhaps also this account: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15808-kundalini-juices/ In addition to the permanent/impermanent issue, I am also interested in the different qualities of the kundalini rising experience itself. For some it is very explicitly connected to sexual arousal and orgasm, like in this account: http://xsplat.wordpress.com/2006/10/28/apana-the-downward-flow-and-kundalini/#comment-3 For some it feels like a burning hot fire. For others (like JJ and Seth Ananda) it is felt as a fluid moving up the spine. But JJ said the fluid was like an egg cracked at the base of his spine, and Seth said it was like his tailbone was drinking his ejaculate. This is slightly different, and is probably related to the fact that one was explicitly connected to sex and the other was not, and one was henceforth "on" all the time and the other was not. In what way are these experiences the same phenomenon? In what ways are the different phenomena? How are the underlying energetic dynamics, mechanisms, and results the same and different in these different experiences?

Apologies to dawg et. al. for the tangent. Well, I was mostly curious why you have such a negative view of Einstein. Now I know. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time than try to convince me of something I am unlikely to be convinced of . Moreover, I know you are unlikely to be convinced to believe other than you now believe, but FYI: 1. At least half of Einsteins best ideas came after his separation from his first wife Mileva Maric. 2. (from Isaccson's "Einstein: His Life and Universe", the most recent Einstein biography and the only one that draws upon all the private letters recently released by Einstein's estate) So the scientific jealousy accusation seems unfounded to me and hence also the accusation of violent intimidation.

VIDEO GAME QIGONG!!!

Blume, I think Yogani, who teaches the finger lock as a preliminary method, said that using it once a week shouldn't cause problems. I suspect that some people will be able to do it more without adverse effects depending on how healthy they are in that region. But not a LOT more. What is pretty much guaranteed to cause serious stagnation is using the finger lock several times in one sitting. I never understood this sentiment. Why would clenching muscles really hard to block the ejaculate produce less stagnation than using the finger lock? IMO, the real skill to develop here is to bypass the ejaculatory reflex entirely, i.e. no squeezing or pressing or drawing required. I think this is what EagleShen was referring to as well.

Oooooo, they have a FORUM now!

Ummm, I don't know how you stumbled onto that blog post, but it is filed under Comedy/Satire so maybe it's not a good thing to cite as fact? I mean, come on, the supposed "mug shot" is a famous portrait of Einstein from when he worked in the patent office in Bern. And there is no biography of Einstein by anyone named Hans Grossman.

Hi Prospekt. Welcome to the forum. The short answer is do qigong, but there is a LOT of qigong out there to choose from. If you could be a bit more precise about what you are looking for, people would be in a better position to advise you, and you would be in a better position to decide from all the different stuff that is out there. You say you are looking for balance. What kind of balance? In what way do you feel unbalanced? You mention channeling and circulating energy, what have you heard about this? (Also, what do you mean channeling energy?) What do you know about Taoism and why does it appeal to you, and what appeals to you about Tolle? B.K. Frantzis is someone whose qigong would mesh very well with people attracted to Tolle and the philosophy of the Tao Te Ching.

I'm so happy that this is working out! A big thank you to all the organizers of this event. Michael's gift to his students is that he plugs them directly into the higher levels. Let that sink in for a moment. It's really...really...awesome. Re. Frantzis' material: It seems to me that he designed his curriculum to be "mass produced" with instructional DVD's, teacher training retreats, etc., to get as many people reaping the benefits of qigong as possible. Good for him! The West needs teachers of his caliber to put out a well thought out system of safe, effective Taoist practices to the mass consumer market. But such an approach cannot be manifestly higher level. Michael's approach is the complete opposite. It is manifestly higher level, so its very nature it cannot be mass produced.

That is not what Missouri is like Kate.

Let me lay my cards down and say that my entire family suffers from mental illness, some quite severe, and we have been teetering on the poverty line for my entire life. Going without has been the name of the game, and while I have never been starving I know what it is like to feel hungry on a regular basis, to be unsure if I will have a roof over my head next month on a regular basis, to not have any of the things that my friends have, etc. So this is quite personal to me and I have done a lot of thinking about it. When I read the quote in question I put the emphasis on a different clause: "Instead, the Human Genome Project is rapidly providing a scientific basis for the political left. Childhood maltreatment, economic inequality and excessive materialism seem the main determinants of mental illness. State-sponsored interventions, like reduced inequality, are the most likely solutions." Look, why I called it a band-aid on a gunshot wound is because the problem is not material. It is on the level of unconscious beliefs, emotional blockages, etc. The level of a lack of virtue, virtues like patience and tolerance. These are the things (and lack of things) that are passed down from parent to child despite the best intentions of parents, teachers, counselors, etc. When I see a parent being unloving to their child, I often get the impression that the parent genuinely does not know how to be loving to a child. They are as loving as they can be, but somehow it doesn't come through. So when the people propose that the government shuffling money around will solve problems that monetary troubles is a symptom, not a cause, of, I liken it to a band-aid for a gunshot wound. It's the same situation as Western medicine: treating symptoms while the cause lingers. There is also the idea of bettering society through education (a far older idea than wealth redistribution), but until people really understand the cause of the problem and what can be done about it, all the education, or therapy, or whatever, in the world is fundamentally misguided. So what can be done? If a society does not have leaders or elders that understand these things, nothing can be done, at least not on the level of the whole society. It is up to individuals to try to raise their own consciousness and develop their own virtue, and then serve in whatever way they can in their community.

Hi effilang. I would very much appreciate it if you would expand on this. In what ways were you intimate? And with what kinds of women? Thanks.

When scientists discovered the genetic code, there was this idea that "If we could only understand this DNA molecule, we would completely understand heredity, and everything not explainable by DNA would be non-hereditary." I think this is a mistake. There is a lot more going on here. Epigenetics is as start on understanding this. In another vein, with identical twins separated a birth, there is the whole issue of their shared womb experience. Another issue is the unfortunate statement in the article that "Instead, the Human Genome Project is rapidly providing a scientific basis for the political left. Childhood maltreatment, economic inequality and excessive materialism seem the main determinants of mental illness. State-sponsored interventions, like reduced inequality, are the most likely solutions." The fallacy here is the inference "if environment is the major cause of mental illness, the agenda of the political left is the solution". To me that is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Here are some tidbits from your friendly neighborhood archivist: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/1493-wu-dang-orbit/ http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/5601-twiddle-your-tan-tien/ There are at least 3 orbits max has taught: Red Dragon, Wudang spinning pearl, and an orbit between the heart and the hui yin. The one thing about Red Dragon that has been mentioned here is that it goes in the reverse direction. There is a general description (i.e. not practice instructions) of the Wudang method in the first of the above threads (make red and white pearl, spin pearl, circulate pearl). Speaking of joining red and white, the red and white drops figure prominently in Tibetan bodhichitta stuff, no? Mark Griffin teaches about joining the red and white drops in the heart. And then in the second of the above threads, Santi and Cameron mention yet another orbit practice Max has taught which circulates energy between hui yin and the heart. Santi said it was Indonesian, and elsewhere called it the "Indochinese dragon circulation", perhaps leading to his confusing it with Red Dragon?

Bump. I think this is a very important topic, one that I have also been dealing with. I would like to see some input from experienced practitioners.

I would like to say a few words about what helped me with full lotus. I don't like the idea of doing a lot of stretches of this and that for a meditation seat. So basically, I just did variants of one stretch: sit cross legged, and bend forward. This video shows the method and stretches I'm talking about. Start with whatever type of cross legged sitting you can do, and then bend forward as much as you can without strain, and then stay there. At this point, the keys are relaxation and deep breathing. When you are bent over like this, not only does it stretch the hips and lower back, but the breath can really get down into the pelvic cavity, and that movement stretches everything out down there in all directions. And if you tense up, you do not breathe as well or stretch as well and can't maintain the stretch, so don't push it! Just get into a position where the breath is opening you up. Let the breath do the work for you. Then bend over to the left and right, and then switch legs, or if you don't have time, alternate legs each session. When you can, do this in half lotus, then when you can, do it with full lotus. Remember, the issue is not getting into a posture, it is being able to sit in that posture and relax and maintain concentration for a good amount of time. So just doing stretches without emphasizing relaxation and deep breathing won't get you where you want to go. I think the bend forward, right and left and breathe method will help to get that stability in whatever cross legged position you choose, as well as help you get into more difficult positions. I also think it helped me to sit in lotus and allow/encourage spontaneous movements. I got lots of crazy pelvic rocking, spiraling, vibrating, and even bouncing. Like with the breath, it allowed the tissues to loosen and stretch in ways no posture alone could. But if you're joints are not in good condition, this is probably not a good idea. I am young and lithe; for all I know this method would not be effective for everyone. Feedback is welcome.

Roll call! Reporting in.

Yeah, I had a lot I wanted to say then, but was in one of my non-posting phases. Regarding the present discussion, I would say don't do the mco as a stand alone practice. I trust that Chunyi Lin has enough knowledge and wisdom that IF you do the whole system, you will be fine. If you only do the active exercises for a while before starting mco, even better. Lin and Cohen both have self-study multimedia courses that go into a lot of detail about the different aspects of qigong. Awesome. Why do I like Lin's better? I perceive this split in Cohen's: here are the "basic exercises" and then here is a bunch of "more advanced" stuff to play with after that. Whereas in Lin's course, it's all right there: He incorporates stuff (passphrase, go into the emptiness, connect to the master's energy, emphasis on love and compassion) that help people connect to the higher levels right into these few, simple movements and meditations. So you don't get overwhelmed with all this stuff to try, yet you find people saying "I've tried all this different stuff, but just these few movements seem so much more powerful!" That is just the opinion of a beginner though. And I only have a cursory knowledge of Cohen's course, so I might be mistaken about it.

All this talk about kundalini has gotten me wondering, why does kundalini hold such a fascination for me? Especially given that I perceive myself to have a fundamentally watery disposition. I had an epiphany a couple days ago that is precisely the illuminating aspect of kundalini that attracts me to it. How interesting that you perceive this to be the very essence of it. Yet it is also what I fear about it. I am not so worried about all the "this person had this horrible experience" stories. I am afraid of things inside myself that kundalini would illuminate. I know that I have very deep and powerful stuff in my unconscious, stuff that will fight like hell against anything that tries to unwind it or release it. Even with the limited light of my own awareness I run into this, how much more intense and painful would it be if the light Shakti was turned upon me! Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips...

Well, I am curious if you think Rainbow Vein's reaction is an appropriate one. Kate agreed that it was. Maybe I am just not taking Shakti seriously enough? I completely agree with you about timeliness, and every time I wonder about my own kundalini I am told "Don't worry about that right now.", and sometimes "Not yet" . But I worry that other people are getting worried. By the way, thanks for taking the time to make such detailed replies to my earlier posts. I was wondering, from your description of Water and Fire paths, there should also be Wind [edit: I mean Wood ], Metal, and Earth paths too, no? Do you know of any? And what is an example of a pure water path, that never uses the upward flow? And how would such a thing fit in with a the idea that a Taoist should be adept with all 5 phases?

No, that is not what I was driving at. That is pretty accurate for all my posts in this thread EXCEPT the one you are referring to. What I meant was, independent of what was said or what I think about it, were you trying to provoke such a fearful reaction from people when you posted what you did in the way that you did? I decided to phrase it as a wisecrack instead of a question just because, and I'm glad at least one person got a laugh out of it. But I apologize that my meaning was not clear.

Have you watched the Q&A videos? I recommend them if you are getting worried. I like and respect Tao tremendously. So Rainbow Vein, who I am quite fond of, is terrified to the point that she worries about relaxing so much that she triggers a kundalini awakening, because of what has been written in this thread. Does anyone else think that maybe there is some unnecessary fear mongering going on here?

I should point out that when I talk about opening a channel, I am referring to the jing level, so to speak, the grossest form of energy. I think that this is usually what Taoists mean when the speak of opening a channel. There may still be mental and psychic stuff that needs cleared out, but the bioenergetic and primal emotion level stuff is cleared out. Now, can you purify and clear out the whole multidimensional depth of the central channel without kundalini entering the picture somehow? Probably not, as she is sitting in there waiting to wake up. But you know way more about that than me.