Creation

I think this is what happened in the other thread too. It had a different "feel" to it than when people just don't feel like responding to me (which has happened to me quite a bit) This is more or less what I had in mind when I said "How much more Taoist can you get", but I didn't quite know how to phrase it in Taoist (as opposed to Dharmic) terms, so I left it cryptic. People bring so much baggage to the table when looking at the Bible that they can't see the gems within it. They just see "This is a contradiction" "This doesn't make sense [read: to me]" "This is so archaic" "Science has disproven this" "That YHWH guy sounds like a jerk", etc. Or, on the other hand, they see "This is what my pastor told me" "The Bible [read: my particular interpretation of the Bible] is the absolute literal infallible Word of God" "Someone told me if I don't believe in these precise theological doctrines or follow these rules I will burn in hell for all eternity", etc. Both prevent a person from being open to the deeper meaning. Not that I know the deeper meaning... maybe one day.

JANE! I'm a big fan of your posts here. You are an inspiration to me. How's the book coming? (sorry to the OP for the tangent)

I posted some speculations about the relationship of the doctrine of original sin and the story of the fall to Taoism here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/12051-karma-and-original-sin/page__view__findpost__p__150694 where it was completely ignored. Maybe it will fare better here? But I am not as excited about discussing it this time around. Not it such a speculative mood... Here is slightly altered reproduction of the post:

Wow Zhang. I really admire your commitment to learning from the book. A lot. Especially in a dorm environment. I know how hard it is to practice just from the book, so as far as I am concerned you have made a TON of progress. Way more that me, that's for sure

Anyway, You asked for information on Taoism, then said what you really wanted was to get a spiritual practice started, and have gotten TONS of recommendations of books, practices, websites, what religions to consider other than Taoism, what religions not to be , why the people who said what religions not to be are wrong :lol: , a recommendation to go see a guy who can give orgasms at a distance (solely for the amusement of some forum members it would seem), and probably a whole lot more random stuff that you didn't see coming. How is your search going? Is there anything that you have followed up on that you think looks promising? Do you have a more clear picture of what you really want? If you are really interested in learning about Taoism, read the books I recommended . This is a separate issue from finding a practice, but if you do choose a Taoist practice it will help to understand some the culture. It would also be very benificial to understand vocabulary I gave you. For example, to understand the stuff about diet, etc. that was confusing you you need to learn about the five phases (wu xing) and how they relate to food, organs, emotions, yearly cycles etc. Oh, by the way, this site has some great stuff but it can be hard to find. Here is something that might help with that: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/9183-taoism-taobums-faq/

Makyea, Here is my 2 cents on the different types of Taoism. In prehistoric China, as in all cultures, there were those who sought to understand everything inside of them and around them. These were the proto-Taoists, so to speak. In the turbulent time of the Warring States, the literati argued about how society should be structured: the individual, society, the government: how should they relate. The books Tao Te Ching and Chuang tzu come from this time, and are the foundation of Philosophical Taoism. They were written by sages who were concerned with the natural world and the individual as much as society, so they were very much in the tradition of what I called proto-Taoists, as opposed to, say, Confucius (who also lived during this time) who was concerned mainly with human society and culture. There were other heirs of the "proto-Taoists". They were the Shamans who, through their investigations, learned how to influence natural forces and the world of spirits. People would come to them for healing or any other kind of spiritual aid they wanted. Sometimes, when the political situation was particularly bad, such a charismatic Taoist shaman would unite people under his banner and rebel against the Emperor. The Yellow Turban Rebellion is an example of this type of thing. It's leader, Zhang Jiao, was reputed to be a powerful sorcerer. One such Taoist Shaman, Zhang Daoling, founded a movement called the Way of the Celestial Masters, and it quickly caught on with the common people. It gained a huge following, and due to some political events it spread all over China. So in this way there became an "official" Taoist priesthood, a hierarchy and standardized training for priests, as opposed to local isolated shamans. The services offered by priests included dispensing magic talismans, performing exorcisms, and interceding with deities (who are really powerful spirit beings, rather than one supreme creator, perhaps sort of like archangels in the Judeo-Christian tradition) Modern religious Taoism derives from this movement. There is a connection with philosophical Taoism other than common connection to ancient Chinese mysticism though. Zhang Daoling claimed that Lao Tzu appeared to him and passed teachings on to him, and in that tradition Lao Tzu is considered to be an incarnation of one of the highset Taoist deities. I don't quite know what your textbook meant by practical Taoism. It could have meant all the various arts that Taoist created: feng shui, astrology, traditional Chinese medicine, internal martial arts, etc. Or it could mean what I call "Monastic Taoism", which is the Way of cultivating one's self to the highest levels of spiritual development. You don't necessarily need to do this to be a priest in religious Taoism, or if you subscribe to the views about society espoused by Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. Yet even though the three are different, there is continuity between them, something that is often overlooked by Western scholars.

Hi balance. Sorry about the delay, I was in a no posting cycle when this thread appeared. Given this description, I think you would be VERY interested in the work of Peter Ralston: http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Body-Being-Enlightened-Approach-Physical/dp/1583941592/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-3 http://www.amazon.com/Cheng-Hsin-Principles-Effortless-Power/dp/1556433026/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-5 http://www.amazon.com/Book-Not-Knowing-Exploring-Consciousness/dp/1556438575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267129662&sr=8-1 Well, if you want to be able to use energy (for martial arts, healing, or whatever), you have to be able to manipulate it. No big conundrum there. As for why running qi around the microcosmic orbit is so emphasized, know that it is not emphasized in all schools and even in those where it is it is only done to get the path firmly established, and then there is no need to consciously run it as a regular cultivation practice anymore. Of course, you might still run it for some reason, but not just for the sake of doing it.

Hi Non. There is a logical reason for this, even if you are unable to perceive it. How do you think girls would react to you if they were given transcripts of all you posts on Tao Bums before they met you? I imagine that they think, "Wow I don't want to be around this guy." The irony is that in a sense, this is exactly what is happening, because all your fears, frustrations, lusts, neediness, and other issues are being projected out for the people around you to feel. And they feel it, even if they are not conscious of it, especially the girls. So there is your explanation for you.... So, are you going to get mad at them for not accepting you the way you are? If you do, please remember that you do not accept them they way they are. You talk a lot about how horrible and impure most of them are. So why should they not reciprocate your rejection? The fact is that it is useless to expect change to start with them, so it MUST start with you. You have to find a way to not project such negative vibes. That means dealing with your issues. I can't tell you how to do that because I am still struggling with it myself. I wish I could help you with a solution instead of just telling you the problem, but at this point I can't. What I can do is assure you that the world is not out to get you, instead you are reaping what you sow. That is certainly not worth killing yourself over. If the universe deemed you unworthy of living, you would be dead. Since you are still alive that must not be the case. The fact that you are at all interested in spirituality is all the more reason not to throw away your body. Best wishes and good luck, Tyler

Well, if money is an issue you can't just go buying all the books and DVDs and attending all the seminars you can find. OTOH, even if you could you don't want to get bogged down trying to do too many things at once (like others have mentioned). These are both things that I struggle with, by the way. I don't feel like I am qualified to tell you what you should practice, but if you already can feel inside yourself you would have quite a running start on the Dissolving meditation that Sloppy Zhang recommended, which I am a big fan of. B.K. Frantzis' books Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body and The Tao of Letting Go both discuss it, the former being more physically oriented and the latter more emotionally oriented. You can probably browse them on google books, and here is an article that describes the process: http://www.energyarts.com/Articles/Bruce-s-Articles/Release-To-Freedom-The-Dissolving-Process-of-the-Taoist-Water-Method.html Now, as far as great info for free, there is a internet talk show Secrets of Qigong Masters that has interviewed sever prominent teachers of the Daoist arts in the West, so you might be interested to listen to them and see if anyone resonates with you and then look into them more. There is some really great stuff in these interviews (links are to mp3 files) B. K. Frantzis: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/06/23/interview-with-bruce-kumar-frantzis.mp3?localembed=download Jerry Allan Johnson: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/11/24/interview-with-dr-jerry-allan-johnson.mp3?localembed=download Michael Winn: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/04/07/interview-with-michael-winn.mp3?localembed=download Ken Cohen: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/03/17/interview-with-jim-macritchie-the-founder-of-the-n.mp3?localembed=download [EDIT: Here's another, if you are able to understand heavy accents] Mantak Chia: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/08/04/interview-with-mantak-chia.mp3?localembed=download Since someone mentioned Chunyi Lin (who I don't consider to be Taoist per say but have great respect for), here is the interview with him: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/09/29/interview-with-chunyi-lin.mp3?localembed=download Good luck!

I'll put this here as well, just in case: The first two levels of intflow (out of four) are free on Sonnon's youtube, if you want to try it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/thermaxgym Search for"intuflow joint mobility".

The first two levels of intflow (out of four) are free on Sonnon's youtube, if you want to try it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/thermaxgym Search for"intuflow joint mobility".

Are you attracted to developing a personal practice yourself, or do you have a more scholarly interest at this point? If you are looking for a practice, are you just longing for something spiritual or are you sure you are interested in the Taoist path of cultivation in particular? I ask because there is a lot of great stuff out there that is not Taoist per say (many of the things that have been recommended to you are in this category). E.g. much qigong comes from the Buddhist Shaolin lineage (not like "Taoists don't practice Buddhist qigong" or something, I just want to clarify) Now about recommendations: I personally think Taoist stories are a good way to get into the spirit of the Tao. The granddaddy of these is the Zhuang Zi. If you are not laughing when you read it you are not getting it. I also like Eva Wong's "Tales of the Taoist Immortals" and "Tales of the Dancing Dragon". They go into the "folk" history of Daoism and you can find a lot of Daoist "culture" there. If you are interested in Taoist cultivation, the book "Seven Taoist Masters" is wonderful. It is translation of a classic Chinese novel about the lives of the founders of the Quanzhen school of Daoism. None of these should be taken as literal history, neither should they be taken as "just stories". Somewhere in between... There are always Western style textbooks for attempts to reconstruct the "real" history, but they are approximations to the truth too, and are generally less fun to read and don't get you the "culture". For an exposition of many Daoist concepts from a practitioner's point of view, look into Chia and Huang's Secret Teachings of the Tao Te Ching. Since you mentioned vocab, the Daoists were like the scientists of ancient China. The observed the world around them and sought to understand the forces in play, and harmonize with them. Like any science, there is a lot of jargon. Here is some good vocab for you to look into. I give alternative spellings when common. Most if not all of these are discussed in Chia and Huang, if others know of good references, do contribute. De - Virtue or Power Wuji Taiji (Tai Chi) Yin and Yang Wuxing - Five Phases or Five Elements Bagua (Pa Kua) - Eight Trigrams Xiantian - Pre-Heaven Houtian - Post-Heaven The Three Treasures: Jing - essence, Qi (Chi) - Energy, Shen - Spirit All of these have aspects within the body (microcosm) and in the larger universe (macrocosm).

Hi Makyea. Welcome to the forum. I'm curious, if you know so little about Taoism and meditation, what prompted you to come to a Taoism forum and ask these questions? Markern, Wow. Your post was quite Hempelian.

Will someone please give me an outline of the actual breathing method Dr. Yang recommends to practice? Thanks.

In this interview with Jerry Alan Johnson, there is a fantastic discussion of Light from about 42:00 to 53:00 (well, what JAJ says is fantastic at least...) http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/11/24/interview-with-dr-jerry-allan-johnson To skip right to 42:00, here is the link for the mp3: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters/2009/11/24/interview-with-dr-jerry-allan-johnson.mp3?localembed=download He says a lot of the same stuff as Ya Mu is always saying around here. Maybe he'll have an en-light-ening post to share if he's not too busy. There is also an instructive and hilarious story about the stages of qigong practice soon after the discussion of Light, from about 56:30-62:00

Wonderful explanation of how to approach visualization practices, Zhang!

YES! Absolutely. Turn down thinking, turn up feeling. Don't ask any questions at all, except perhaps to clarify something they said to you.

I don't fully understand myself. That's why I was so cryptic. I have been wondering why you were so insistent on not letting go but instead amplifying what you feel since you first posted about it. Then I was thinking, one can't just "let go", and there is no secret technique to do so. You have to be at a certain "place" (which I am just starting to understand myself). If you try to let go before you get to that "place" either nothing will happen or you will convince yourself that you have let go when you really haven't. This is what I call false letting go. I just had this flash of intuition that you, perhaps unconsciously, understand the trap of false letting go and know that you are not ready yet. Or I interpreted my intuition incorrectly...

Hehe...been on TTBs hiatus for several days and almost missed this. My higher nature is looking forward to it (don't know about the rest ). Much love to you. Awake, know that others are dealing with similar stuff but might not feel like they are in a position to discuss it. The only comment I have at this time is that I just realized that your emphasis on postponing the letting go phase is to keep you from falling into the trap of false letting go. Interesting. The rabbit hole is very deep. Best wishes.

Teacher Hu seems to be both a practitioner and a scholar of considerable accomplishment. The scolar part is clear from his site, the practitioner part is the impression I got from Dao Zhen. This assumes Hu is in fact the Teacher Dao Zhen referred to. I always got the impression that Teacher Hu was Dao Zhen's primary Taoism/nei dan teacher, for various reasons.

Boy do I ever want to. Since he is probably isn't around to tell you himself, I remember Cameron went to one.

Mike, Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me. Really, I appreciate it. Scotty, Thank you for helping me to see the parts of myself that I need to work on. Max, Thank you for sharing such marvelous practices with me! Much love to you all.

Problem Solved

I think this is the key to the mystery that is this thread. It was very perceptive of you to point this out.

I recently posted this in another thread. The fact that YJM does not mention this state as being the "true" embryonic breathing made me wonder, but I only saw the DVD, does he mention it in the book? Scotty, Longevity Breathing is not Taoist Internal Breathing, it is a subset of it. A different subset than what YJM calls embryonic breathing, which is another subset of Taoist Internal Breathing. If you could only step back from your self assurance for one moment. Sending love your way, Tyler