Creation

Trolls aside, there is some stuff in this thread that has been bothering me and I would like to say my piece. First, I feel like I should clarify something I said in my last post. All the problems I had with my KAP class were due to my own issues I was having, my inability to ask for help, and the mismatch of personalities between Santi and I. Not, I would say, any kind of failure on Santi's part. Lord knows I count myself among his admirers. But I can certainly sympathize with what KAPReview posted. With that said, I perceive a lot of confusion and people talking past each other in this thread. Santi's students and admirers know he is works tirelessly to help people. They do not like to see him slandered or accused of any kind of wrong doing. Those who are not Santi's students or admirers see that he often expresses himself in an agressive way, and they perceive this as ego or emotional imbalance, causing them to dislike him. These two groups argue with each other all the time. Into the fray strolls KAPReview, who seems to like Santi just as much as anybody but had some issues with KAP and Santi's class. Now, my perception was that people are doing the same thing with Santi that people did with Max Christensen. His admirers, knowing how wonderful he is, go after anyone who says anything slightly bad about him. Case in point, Santi seemed to get where KAPReveiw was coming from after some reflection, but his students continue to say "It's your fault, not Santi's." Guys, really. This should be a learning experience for all involved, not an assignment of blame. And anyone who remembers what happened with Kunlun should be very careful not to put Santi on any kind of pedestal and not to make a monolithic "Good KAP Student Clique" that is unwilling to listen to any dissent, so that KAP doesn't become the next Kunlun. It seems that KAP practices are much safer, so that won't happen, BUT as the KAP community continues to grow (like the Kunlun community did) you never know what might happen. History has shown that even a powerful healer with great intentions can have major problems in their community of students. So I think conscientious KAPers should learn the lessons of history and do their part to make the KAP community as open and understanding as possible, so that it's not all on Santi, Tao, and Susan. Maybe I'm overreacting, but this is very important to me.

CLASSIC!

For curious readers: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=8418 It's long, so you might want to just do a CTRL+F for "fiveelementtao" I always enjoy reading your perspective on this matter fiveelementtao.

Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for posting this.

KAPReveiw, I am very glad you posted your review. Too often people are praise KAP like it is perfect or are negative trolls, so no one can get a balanced opinion. I don't want KAP to become another Kunlun. The fact that you felt like you had to make a special KAPReview account to say this indicates that I am not the only one who thinks that is the direction it is going in. Plus the many red flags in the ensuing discussion. Generally speaking, I agree with the pros and cons you listed. I was definitely thinking "I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that" when I read your post. KAP does a great service by offering Skype classes, so that people can have at least some interaction with a teacher who could not do so otherwise. This is why I took the course. As far as I can tell, Santi and Tao are both very generous and powerful, they have been around the spiritual block having studied the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetan, and Indonesian traditions. With so many charlatans out there, at least there is one system people can study online where you know the teachers are for real. OTOH, people need to know that KAP is a energetic development system [EDIT: of course, energy and emptiness and virtue are connected, but in the human state it can be difficult to realize this in practice] and leans toward the left-hand approach and the path of power. I am glad I took KAP for many reasons, and I do not regret it one bit, but I must say that certain aspects of the class where underwhelming to me. The main perks have been not from the class itself, but getting connected to Santi, Tao, Susan, and even Dr. Morris a bit, and all that they have to offer. Which brings me to a puzzle. You really never felt Santi's transmission? I am not very sensitive I can feel it. And I don't think it's my suggestibility because sometimes I don't feel it, or feel it in weird places or with delays. I had my even less sensitive mother watch his "Healing Session 2" video on youtube, and she felt it. That guy has some INSANE juice! When Santi first came to the forum, a respected member didn't take him seriously, and Santi sent him juice un-announced, causing him to make this flabbergasted "Okay I take you seriously now" post. So I'm very surprised that you said you didn't feel it, having the background that you do.

This song makes my spirit soar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rAL1yxSdE Performed by The Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra with guest vocalist Susan Calloway.

http://www.kundaliniawakeningprocess.com/k...e_learning.html $333 for 12 half hour lessons and lifetime access to their videos, review classes, and Shaktipats.

I must protest. Trying to practice from Taoist Yoga is not the best course of action here. Drew, how much do you really think you would have gotten out of it if you had not spent the time you did trianing with Chunyi Lin in person? Others have made good recommendations. I'll throw in mine, which mostly echo those of others. Read Tao Te Ching with an eye towards how it applies to life and cultivation. Chia and Huang's Secret Teachings of the Tao te Ching, and the more advanced Revealing the Tao Te Ching by Hu and Parker are great here. I love Liao's Nine Nights with the Taoist Master, but it is pricey. Also, read Zhuang Zi. The one I read was Feng and English's, Mair's and Watson's come recommended to me as well. Another genre to look into is Taoist stories. Eva Wong's Seven Taoist Masters is a great read, as well as her Tales of the Dancing Dragon and Tales of the Taoist Immortals. These will help give you some much needed "culture" so often lacking in Westerners who think that Taoism is all about a philosophy or having better sex. Opening the Dragon Gate is another good read in this genre. When you read these, make sure you keep your mind open but beware not to read any of these as literal history. Even if everything that they describe is theoretically possible, that doesn't mean it happened like that. Two authors who have lots of books on how Taoism applies to everyday life and are constantly recommended around here are Deng Ming-Dao and Ni Hua-Ching. As far as books, etc. from which to self-study actual practices, Spring Forest Qigong and anything (or everything) by B. K. Frantzis.

Here are some additions to the list: - Michael Winn's Qigong Fundamentals 1-4 I have the level 1 and 2 DVDs, which teach some moving qigong forms - DaMo Qigong Home Study Course - Glenn Morris' Meditation Mastery CDs (but if you have the money you might as well just take KAP, which teaches Morris' material) Spring Forest and anything by B.K. Frantzis are top notch for self study in my book, and would be my recommendations. I don't have The Tao of Letting Go (it's at the top of my to-get list), but I really liked Frantzis' Taoist Breathing for Chi Gung and Meditation 2 CD set and all his books. However, I will say that the guys at damo-qigong.net strike me as very authentic (nei dan practitioners living on Mt. Wudang), but I can't comment on the quality of their course, and so can't unequivocally recommend it.

Oh, you're already back. I guess that means the fun's over for you, but it's just starting for the rest of us .

Very cool. A rebounder is already at the top of my "gadgets to help with cultivation" list, and you just gave me a new reason.

Fascinating. Thanks for posting Sean and Drew.

Whether or not you have a "dan", you have a lower field or xia tien. I have heard of a few descriptions of this point. 1. It is the center of the body's energetic system. What is meant by center? Something like the central control point. 2. It is the point where all the body's channels intersect. This can't be literally true, so I think it means something like central control point above. 3. It is like an energetic lung: it is where the body's energetic breathing (embryonic breathing) takes place. [EDIT: note that all of the body breathes, but the lungs are sort of "powering" the process. The xia tien is then the point that "power's" the body's energetic breathing, even though all the energetic body is breathing as well.] 4. It is the body's center of gravity. Now, this is not in terms of energetic anatomy but physical. These point might be related, but I'm not sure they are literally the same, just close. 4. It is the point where the body grew from, in the sense that it is where the fetus connected to the mother. This is at the navel, and is related to 3. because of embryonic breathing, where the fetus breathes chi directly. But once again, the navel itself is not the dan tien, just close to it. But you said you didn't want hearsay! OK, here's my experience. I often feel heat in the lower abdominal region when I meditate, but that is a general area. But one time, I woke up very early, meditated, and went back to sleep. I went in to a sleep paralysis where I couldn't move my body except my eyes and breath but my mind was completely awake. This had happened to me before, except this time I felt my energy body VERY strongly. Whenever I would inhale, energy would rush in from from all over my body toward a very exact location in my lower abdomen, and when it was full, it would start to rush out from this point towards my extremities, and I would exhale. I found that by synchronizing my physical breath with this tendency of energy to flow in and out of my xia tien (I say tendency because the flow would follow my physical breath, even if it didn't "want" to) the sensation became stronger and stronger. So I would say that 1. and 3. above are the best way of looking at the xia tien.

The term Taoist Yoga is an ambiguous term. The different meanings are due to the differenet meanings of the term yoga. If you take the classical meaning, which is a complete system of spiritual practices culminating in union with the Absolute, then the Taoist version of this, nei dan or inner alchemy. This is what the title of the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality refers to. In the modern western meaning, yoga is a system of stretching and breathing exercises practiced for its physical and emotional/mental health benefits. The Taoist analogue of this is Daoyin. This is what is being referred to in that "Tao Yoga" site you asked about a while ago, or what Bruce Frantzis calls "TAO yoga" in some of his books.

I bet this guy has some interesting stuff to say on the matter (crosses fingers). 7b0z-_sDG9s

Check these out (I have not but they are on my list): http://www.amazon.com/TAO-Letting-Go-Medit...n/dp/1556438087 http://www.amazon.com/TAO-Letting-Go-Medit...n/dp/1556437897 I have read his earlier meditation books. They have great discussions the emotional aspects of Taoist meditation/alchemy, but do not focus on the emotional aspect in particular. http://www.amazon.com/Relaxing-into-Your-B...d_bxgy_b_text_c http://www.amazon.com/Great-Stillness-Meth.../ref=pd_sim_b_1

It seems that Coach Sonnon was gracious enough to put the beginning and intermediate movements on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/thermaxgym

Here is my favorite old-school RJ post. This blew me away when I first read it, because it was just what I needed to hear.

OF COURSE RONNIETSU BE NOT BEHIND SUCH CUMPLETE BULLSHIT. WHAT WOULD HE CARE ABOUT THAT MOFO VERDESI?

Steve, As far as popular accounts of string theory go, I recommend Hyperspace by Michio Kaku. It will stretch your mind in many more directions than Greene's stuff and does not go as deep down the string theory rabbit hole, which I personally think is a dead end. Well, I should clarify. Edward Witten is quoted as saying string theory is "a piece of 21st century physics that fell by chance into the 20th century." Well, as far as I am concerned, string theory is a piece of 21st century mathematics that fell by chance into the 20th century. The mathematics is really quite incredible, and not at all understood. But it does not, as Einstein would say, bring us any closer to the secret of the Old One. I am convinced that any perceived connections to the actual workings of the universe will later be seen to be coincidental, in the sense that most all really cool math has some connection to physics somehow. joeblast, What is the mainstream? I am not familiar with this term. Seriously though, I really like that Penrose voices the criticisms that he does, even if that puts him outside the "mainstream." That is why I brought his book up in the first place in the post that Serene Blue mentioned. I don't necessarily agree with his perspective (my above comments about string theory applies almost as well to his twistor theory, and I don't like his complexify (in the mathematical sense) everything in sight philosophy), but he has thought as deeply about the foundations of physics as deeply as anyone alive today and I have tremendous respect for him for being willing to go outside the mainstream. Another great physicist who thought as deeply about the foundations of physics as Penrose and was equally comfortable being outside the mainstream was David Bohm. He was also a good friend of J. Krishnamurti. If you tackled The Road to Reality, his books would be no problem. http://www.amazon.com/David-Bohm/e/B000APPUV4/ref=sr_tc_2_0

I think you are referring to a post of mine in which I referenced The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose. http://www.amazon.com/Road-Reality-Complet...e/dp/0679454438 But to call it a popular science book is a bit misleading. It was written so that you can get some idea about how a mathematical physicist actually thinks about modern mathematics and physics. Sir Roger spends the first 300-400 pages trying explain the math behind modern physics. With equations. The next 300-400 pages is about the part of modern physics (analytical mechanics, relativity and classical field theory, quantum theory) that is well established. Once again, with equations. The last 300-400 pages is about cutting edge physics where Penrose gives his critical analysis of the theories currently under investigation in physics and cosmology. An absolute tour de force, and one of my all time favorite books. However, if you do not have training in math and physics it will frustrate you. I know this because I have training in math and physics and it frustrated me . You can completely ignore the equations and just try to absorb whatever ideas you can. To get something out of it this way you will have to really want it, get used to feeling completely lost and confused, think hard, and then you can milk out some real gems despite not understanding all the math. Oh and make copius use of the index, frequently go back and re-read sections to pick up things you missed. Actually, this is the way to read this book even if you do know a good deal of math and physics. It will just be that much harder if you don't. Preview it on google books, and if you get it try to get a hardcover. [EDIT: Apparently you can't preview it on google books. Try to find it at a library.]

Thanks for the analysis. I don't know about having an overabundance of fire since it was medium size, and I am actually extremely skinny. But spleen too yang and kidneys, liver, and lungs too yin seems like a reasonable explanation of the elements chart. I suppose that the day stem being water was more a personality thing than something necessarily related to my kidneys or zhi spirit. Thanks for the offer. Good luck meeting your deadline. Notice the house for Pluto and Mercury are right on the edge of changing, but everything else was stable under perturbations of birth time of plus or minus 20 minutes or so.

Thanks for the help. For the record, my ascendant and house positions are mostly for sure because I know my birth time to within an hour. The only ones that aren't for sure are Saturn in the Second House, Pluto Conjunct Ascendant, Mars Conjunct Midheaven. I might be Saturn in the Third House, lack Pluto Conjunct, and have Sun Conjunct Midheaven. But I definitely have Ascendant in Scorpio, Mars in the Tenth House, Venus in the Tenth House, Sun in the Ninth House, Moon in the Ninth House. How does this update what you said? Also. the reading didn't say anything about Mercury. Was the reading incomplete or was Mercury somehow insignificant at the time of my birth? I consider the fundamental thing about my personality to be how I am a union of opposites in just about every way. One of those unions of opposites is the very expressive and very shy that you mentioned. Really, I appreciate this.