Creation

I often lament this state of affairs. I'm glad we attracted you, Eternal_Student.

Hi guys. This thread has piqued my interest in astrology. I utilized the links in above posts to get an analyis and would like some help interpreting the results. If it helps, I am a 20 year old male. Western reading: Sun in Leo, Moon in Cancer, Ascendant in Scorpio, Mars in the Tenth House, Venus in the Tenth House, Sun in the Ninth House, Moon in the Ninth House, Venus in Virgo, Mars in Leo, Saturn in the Second House, Pluto Conjunct Ascendant, Mars Conjunct Midheaven. The last three are maybes because I don't know the exact time of my birth. Does anything jump out at you from this reading beyond the meanings of the individual parts? Any advice you can give to someone with such a reading? Chinese reading: Birth Year Animal: Snake, Day Stem: Yang Water, Year Stem: Yin Earth, Month Stem: Yin Metal, Hour Stem: Yin Fire They also gave a diagram of the five elements in the creation cycle, and the names of the elements were in circles of different sizes. I got: Large: Earth Medium: Fire Small: Wood, Water, Metal Once again, does anything jump out here and do you have any advice? Also, I'm not sure what the elemental analysis is supposed to mean. If my day stem is water, why was it small in the elemental chart? Are these different uses of the elements? Understanding me is a tricky task. Any help any of you could give would be welcome. I am asking this in the first place because many of the things associated to the results are dead on, many more than are inaccurate. For example, I fit the description of Snake to the last letter. But of course, I read these things through my own filters, so some outside input would help.

Don't waste too much time reading this guys stuff. Yikes. One of those people who knows just enough to think they know what they are talking about but from an expert's vantage point they are clueless. Maybe I am such a person too. As far as Taoism goes I sure am. There are some very valid criticisms of the standard models of particle physics and cosmology and attempts to go beyond them (sting theory, etc.). I would even argue that there are still gaping holes in physicists' understanding of basic relativity theory and quantum theory. But railing on about how "curved math" lets you get away with sloppy reasoning is not one such valid criticism. Tangentially, here is a funny physics story I recently came across. Enjoy: One day during their walk Bloch excitedly and proudly announced, "I now know what the space is." Heisenberg turned and said, "Tell me so I can know too." Bloch, who had just finished reading Linear Vector Spaces by David Hilbert, a famous German mathematician, proudly declared, "Space is a set of linear vector operations." "Nonsense," Heisenberg retorted. "Space is blue and birds fly through it"

I look forward to hearing all about it Uncle Stiggy

Great news vortex! I look forward to hearing more about this in the future. Is this Laozi Academy something Kathy Li and other American students of Master Wang are doing or is it a collaborative thing? Is it located in Atlanta or does it even have a physical location?

Hi S. Thanks for the info. Which product in particular are you referring to? That sounds really cool, but I don't see anything with that description in her store. Everyone else in this thread, ECRASEZ L'INFAME!

Yes I am sure. The demon Kali is the personification of evil/sin. Kali the consort of Shiva is the personification of tamas, the guna (mode) of ignorance. So some of the symbolism might be the similar, since the grosser sins are associated with tamas (rather than sattwa or rajas, the modes of goodness and passion). But in tantric lore, tamas is associated with the lower chakras, not being necessarily good or bad. Kali standing over Shiva's dead body refers to the kundalini rising up from the lower chakras and destroying everything in its path until it reaches the crown (symbolized by Shiva). Or something like that. I'm no expert.

Honestly, this doesn't sound like a kundalini experience to me, but a really powerful sleep paralysis event. Kundalini is not a once and it's done thing but a complete rewiring of your body's energetic system. That's why I don't think what you experienced was kundalini. But it could be a first step. I am not qualified to say for sure. Here are some first hand accounts of kundalini. http://books.google.com/books?id=_meUf86FO...;q=&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=cHBzcJmbi...;q=&f=false (Read 10-15 pages into each.) Both of these books are great to read in their entirety. Don't fear kundalini. Stay calm. If you weren't trying to make it happen and it happens, then the universe wanted it to happen. Be careful who you take advice from. Actual experts in kundalini yoga are rare. One of them posts here under the name Vajrasattva.

Hi Kali Yuga. Welcome to the forum. The user who posts as Vajrasattva is the resident Tenaga Dalam expert around here. Just do a search for Tenaga Dalam and I'm sure you will find some interesting info. For the record, Kali Yuga refers to the demon Kali, not Kālī the consort of Shiva depicted in your avatar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_%28Demon%29

Hi Zhenlung. Good to see you around again. Thanks for the link. It looks to have great information that damo-qigong didn't have. They even have a fourm now! Since you popped in, I would like to pick your brain a bit. The "Practical Process of Taoist Internal Alchemy Practice" described on damo-qigong.net seem to me to be more similar to what is outlined in Taoist Yoga than to what is outlined in, say, the Lingbao Bifa or the Teachings of Zhong and Lu. But I am no expert. Could you comment on this? If so, that seems to indicate that what Teacher Hu teaches is from the Wu Liu offshoot of Longmen (mentioned in above posts) rather than the pure Longmen per say. Did Teacher Hu mention this, or was he not to concerned with such details, as Dao Zhen describes in the Introduction of their book? YMWong, I would love to hear anything you have to say on this topic as well. Thanks, Tyler

I don't know about karma in particular, but the relationship of Christian doctrines like the Fall and original sin to Eastern religions/philosophies is a fascinating subject. Prince, Augustine didn't get his doctrines from a vacuum. The stuff is right there in Paul's epistles. The question is did Augustine interpret it correctly? Paul talks about the two natures of mankind: the spiritual nature and the carnal nature. The carnal nature is identified with mankind's tendency toward sin and depravity. Note that Paul does say that the carnal nature is something that is intrinsic to people from birth and does mention a connection with Adam and Eve. Note also that he does not say whether the spiritual nature is or isn't intrinsic from birth. I think this is the reason that the sinful nature has been so emphasized in Christian circles. But it need not be so. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that both natures are intrinsic to humans, and it is not too much of a stretch to say that both are needed but one has been corrupted, which is the doctrine of the Fall. Is this starting to sound familiar? Here is what it reminds me of: spiritual nature = pre heaven nature, carnal nature = post heaven nature. One of the words Paul uses to describe the carnal nature is psuchekos (probably spelled wrong), as in pertaining to the psyche (as opposed to the spiritual nature being pneumatikos, or pertaining to spirit). In other words, our spiritual nature is something beyond our minds, while our mental nature has been corrupted and this is the cause of "sin". This, I think, was not understood as Christianity spread out into an environment stepped in Greek philosophy. I think if Christianity grew up in a place where Taoism was well known, the identification spiritual nature = pre heaven nature, carnal nature = post heaven nature would have been immediately recognized. It really makes perfect sense to see it that way. Think about the story of the Fall in Genesis. What was the cause of the trouble? Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then could no longer eat from the tree of life. WOW! That is just about as Taoist as it gets! (Note to TianhuaQigong: the common myth that it was an apple that Adam and Eve ate is a ridiculous corruption of the actual story) As I write this, I wonder how good my memory of the Bible is and I remind myself that I am no expert in New Testament Greek. I could be totally off base with all of this. Caveat emptor.

Just when I was starting to wonder (again) why I still hang around here. Spontaneous joy, laughter, heat. A welcome change from the growly angry noises I've been getting in meditation recently. Awesome music. I am the servant of the infinite one. The universe is in my palm. I bow to the servants of the infinite one. OOOOOOMMMMMMMM.

You get into arguments with people?

I have heard very good things about Garripoli's DVD and it is the cheapest way to learn Wuji Gong: http://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Beginning-Pra...i/dp/B00049QPII

Yes of course. We've discussed this before. It was your destiny to take KAP when you did, no doubt. Just don't discount the Water method for good. You already have top notch fire practices from KAP. I think the water method could help you, like I mentioned about breathing with your spine. Oh and sorry for derailing the thread.

I would like to point out that the "Water method", as a complete system of Taoist practice, does not confine itself to practices that are yin or watery per say, but incorporates both yin and yang and all five elements. The point of the water method is to not strain your system at all. There are fire, yang, upward, expanding elements to it, but they are used only in a certain way and at a certain point (as are the yin practices, for that matter). I think this confusion is another manifestation of the confusion about wu-wei meaning not ever doing anything, or relaxation meaning being completely limp all the time. It doesn't, but it sure is a lot easier to be relaxed when you are lying down limp and not doing anything! I think it is likely that Frantzis made up the term "water method" to describe the particular tradition that was passed on to him. It is not a terrible name, but is is a misnomer. But here I speculate, so if someone knows otherwise do correct me. The "water method" emphasizes awareness, which fundamentally is not yin or yang. Part of the confusion is that Frantzis does not publicly teach the fiery or yang aspects of the system, and his writing can come off as being anti-fire and anti-yang. I think the latter is what prompted Michael Winn's article, which when I read I thought, "well that sounds right" but then I realized that he (and I, up to that point) hadn't really understood the water method (and Frantzis' saying negative things about 'fire methods' may very well have played a part of that). For example, Winn talks about warm water dissolving things better than cold water, meaning you need to heat up the chi with fire to dissolve blockages more efficiently. But that shows a misunderstanding of what Frantzis means by dissolving, which is to use awareness to cause the blockage to spontaneously dissolve, not trying to use chi per say (although of course chi is intimately involved). And Winn calls his way the method of water and fire (kan and li) and says that is more balanced, but that confuses uses of the terms water and fire. Frantzis says in his book that both 'water' and 'fire' methods have kan and li practices, and there is a fire component in the nei gong Frantzis teaches (namely, Opening the Energy Gates level two, also called Spiraling Energy Body, whereas OtEG lv. 1 is the water component, and there are also wood, metal, and earth components). So it is plenty balanced. Whether the "fire" or "water" method is for you is based on your personality. But I don't think it is as simple an assessment as "yin" people need "fire methods", "yang" people need "water methods". I think it would be a mistake to think "I am a yin person, so my practice should be yang and therefore I should not practice the 'Water Method'."

He says day 4-7 of the retreat is standard for opening all the meridians, and there are 3 sessions of 1.5 hours of practice per day. So 18-32 hours. Note that this is all the meridians, not just ren and du. Small water wheel is a more advanced stage related to yang chi and transforming pre-heaven jing to pre-heaven chi (whatever that means ): http://damo-qigong.net/step7.htm http://damo-qigong.net/step7-1.htm Not that you asked me, but dao zhen doesn't seem to be around here anymore.

I posted the complete article by B.K. Frantzis that I referenced above here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=121552 It's the most he has ever said about the heart-mind in print.

The site says the system was founded by Jesse Lee Parker, who is none other than my all time favorite tao bum, dao zhen http://www.thetaobums.com/dao-zhen-m8508.html His posts practically give me goosebumps. They are a great jewel hidden in within the mine of TTBs. I believe Yuko Kon is a cultivation sister of his. Thanks for pointing this out to me. No way I'll have the money for this for a while, but I like to hear about the cool stuff that is out there.

Pietro, Not only do jing, chi, and shen have multiple meanings (big example: Frantzis' chi vs. Chi, also jing as semen versus any form of energy relating to the first two bodies), but xin does too. In Yang Jwing-Ming's books, written from a TCM and martial arts perspective, xin means the "emotional mind", relating to desires and all that, and then the yi (as in qi follows yi) is the "wisdom mind", relating to intelligence and intention. If you were talking about this stuff for an hour, did the other meaning of xin come up? I think it is an issue of language barrier. All languages use the same word for very different but kind-of related things. These distinctions aren't just nitpicking, they are really completely different things, but they are somehow analogous or related enough to merit using the same word. So there are two issues: Making proper distinctions between different meanings of the same Chinese word in order to avoid ambiguity, and actually experiencing the things the word refers to so you understand the distinction and relation on a level that is more than intellectual. Actually, as you pointed out, it is not just a matter of understanding Chinese, but understanding how different groups used the Chinese words in their own specialized way. Yikes. Who did you have an hour long skype conversation with this about?

Yes, jing, chi, and shen all have a world of different meanings, causing no end of confusion to practitioners of all stripes.

[Emaphasis mine] So it doesn't have to be like you two are saying. Of course, daily interaction with the teacher who is willing to help you open up that fast and disciplined practice are musts for this to be applicable.

Pietro and Sheng Zhen, As Frantzis uses the term, Heart-Mind is the same as Shen: (from http://www.energyarts.com/Articles/Bruce-s...t-2-Intent.html ) When you hear about xin (hsin) in most TCM or Taoist circles, they are talking about the monkey mind, or emotion driven mind. This is not at all what Frantzis means when he talks about the Heart-Mind.

Thanks for the correction about the direction Liao describes. So, mantis, just to be clear do you feel the chi in the dantien going up the front down the back or down the front up the back before reversal? Anyway, Liao wants you to get the chi spinning more in that direction rather than reverse it. I wonder what he would say about reversing it? Especially since JJ says the reversal becomes permanent after 2 weeks or something. EDIT: Wait, I just looked in my version of T'ai Chi Classics (the one vortex linked to), and the description is completely ambiguous about the direction, but the picture shows down the front and up the back. It's on p. 35-35.

vortex, When Semple talks about the flow of the breath and reversing it, he is not talking about the mCO or little orbit, but a circulation of chi in the lower dan tien itself. He says that his was running up the front and down the back and that he reversed this. I have heard this flow in the lower field mentioned by Waysun Liao (in The T'ai Chi Classics) and Hu Xuezhi (on damo-qigong.net), but nothing about reversing it. Also, Liao describes it as going in the opposite direction. I am quite curious which direction others feel when they begin to feel a circulation in the lower field. I have heard that for some whose mCO opens naturally as a result of Taiji or meditation or some such it occasionally will naturally open in the opposite direction than most, i.e. up the front and down the back (in Mysteries of the Life Force by Peter Meech). Perhaps it is the same with the circulation in the lower field?