Creation

Way, Thank you so much for posting this. Boy have I been missing out not being on the chat! Yours, Tyler P.S. I hope SereneBlue can get out of bed today.

Father Paul: in sitting meditation the meditator was absent today Lozen: I guess I could say the same since I did not meditate. Father Paul: then you have done better than this one he thought he meditated Dao Zhen: grok ROFL! I am so glad your wisdom is preserved here, Father Paul. Happy Birthday.

Apparently Wang Zhe, founder of Complete Reality Daoism, must have not lived in accordance with the Dao because he passed away at 57. Moreover, Complete Reality practices could not possibly promote longevity for the same reason. Come to think of it, since Doc passed at 62, that means KAP is better for your longevity than Quanzhen.

I agree that most Christians are ignorant about the origins of the canon, and seem to think it was more or less written handed down by God Himself written in stone. But on the other end of the spectrum, I think those who (think they) know something generally make far too much of Constantine and successive emperors' roles in all that. (Actually, most people will just talk about Constantine, as if he personally decided which books were canonical. Ugh...). Consider this: During pagan times, no emperor ever gave an official dictum "This is the version of the [Greco-Roman] creation myth that is true and if you don't believe it you will be punished." But starting with the Arian controversy, Christans got really riled up over theological disputes, and wanted to establish "This is the correct doctrine and everyone who doesn't believe this creed exactly as we have defined and worded things is wrong." So when Constantine grated favored status to Christianity, he said "Hey, stop arguing and figure it out. You are making me look bad." And this set a precedent that whichever side would win the latest argument would use imperial power to suppress those holding other views. So I think what really "went wrong" with Christianity was the obsessive emphasis on "orthodoxy" based on precisely worded definitions, creeds and doctrines. Not (as it is currently fashionable to believe) some shady arrangement between Emperors and Bishops to create a religion to unify the empire by selectively picking and modifying Christian documents and throwing in a liberal amount of repackaged mystery religion. Not that you were necessarily saying that, it's just a common view that I wanted to address.

Salaam alaikum Budala and Zenshiite. Welcome to the forum. Since there has been some talk of "I don't know if this is the place to discuss this", I would like to express my appreciation to you both for sharing your discussion with us. My understanding of Islam is quite superficial in view of the enormous depth and breadth of its tradition, so I am grateful to be able to eaves-drop on two spiritually-minded Muslims respectfully discoursing. Yours, Tyler

Hi Fox. Since you joined this forum I was just about counting the days till you made this post. Because this issue had to come up. Usually for the exact same reason you stated: the concept of eternity in hell. It really doesn't make sense. I was a devout Christian for most of my life, until about two years ago. There were a lot of factors coming together to make that change. Yet in a sense, I still am a Christian. What sense is that? After all I don't really believe a lot of the systematic theology you would be taught in any Christian denomination. But I've cultivated a relationship with Jesus my whole life, and that doesn't just go away. It is my personal experience that Jesus is still around and very much accessible to humans. But questions still remain. Theological: What is the Supreme being, really? Does such a being exist? Who is YHWH, the being who communicated the Torah to Moses on Mt. Siani? Who was Jesus? Why did he come to the world, what did he do, what is it's significance, and what is he doing now? What is the relationship between these three? Historical: What did the Jesus and his apostles really teach? How has that changed over the years and why? I have not answered these questions for myself yet, and I may not in this lifetime. "We see through a glass darkly"... you know the rest. It is important to me to keep seeking answers to these questions. But I consider that peripheral to the Great Work of cultivating the True Heart and Original Nature. Something tells me that that is what Jesus wants for me. Something that might comfort you is that many of the church fathers did not believe in eternal hell for all unbelievers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Universalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis On a side note, since fiveelementtao mentioned it, there is a lot of the stuff out there about Nicaea, Constantine, Pagan Mystery religions, etc. and everybody and their dog has a theory about what really happened to create the Christianity that eventually became what we know today. I am of the opinion that most of this is total crap. Seriously, most people who try to talk to me about Nicaea have no idea what they are talking about and are just parroting some nonsense they heard that sounded quasi-historical. And then there are those who draw parallels between Christianity and mystery religions and on that basis say "Christianity is a complete fabrication." Seriously? Good fortune to you on your spiritual path, Tyler

From Mysteries of the Life Force: My Apprenticeship with a Chi Kung Master by Peter Meech:

Perhaps neither. Shaktipat and delusion are not the only two things that can cause such an occurrence. Energy can start to move for no apparent reason, especially in one who is practicing energy work or meditation intensely. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if someone sent you some energy. That's really cool you discovered the above-crown chakra on your own. I'm sure Tao will mention it to you sooner or later. And the big heart chakra thing does not surprise me

YES!!! A cheer from the peanut gallery for this.

The conclusion I eventually came to is fudodai = siddhasana. Try google-ing that.

Excellent point! I knew there was more to the story, and I'm glad you filled that in. If you are composing a complex piece of music to be aesthetically judged solely by what immediately strikes the ear (melody, harmony, etc.) use equal temperament. If you are using sound for healing or energetic effect, use Pythagorean tuning or some such.

Santi, How does this KAP1 review work? Is this weekly (too late for me to join tonight...). How do I get on the call? [EDIT] Also, will the shaktipats continue to have skype calls? How do I get on those? (*Anyone who knows, please answer, since Santi probably won't be on again in the next 40 minutes) Thanks, Tyler

About western vs. non-western intervals: (I think that people mean "equal temperment" when they say "western". So my explanation is about equal temperament. But saying it is "western" is a misnomer".) Pythagoras is credited with discovering the laws of harmony in the west, the primary principle being that two frequencies sound more harmonious if they have a ratio close to the ratio of small whole numbers. So the most harmonious interval is the octave (ratio of 2:1), then the perfect fifth (3:2, which is an octave down from 3:1), the perfect fourth (4:3), the major third (5:4), and the minor third (6:5). The names come from scales, but scales are derived from intervals so that is putting the cart before the horse. Now suppose we want to make a harmonious progression of notes from which to draw upon in composition (a "scale"). We would do this by combining octaves, fifths, fourths, and both kinds of thirds in different ways. We immediately find that a major third followed by a minor third or vice versa is a fifth, and a fifth followed by a fourth or vice versa is an octave. The other combinations will give new intervals. This way we get an infinite number of notes in our scale! Back up... Upon inspection, 3 major thirds is about 1.95:1, and 4 minor thirds is about 2.07:1. Both close to an octave! What if we "fudged" the definition of each to make it work out so that 3 of the former and 4 of the latter is an octave? Would that sound so much less harmonious than using the exact ratios? The frequencies obtained thereby would be about 1 percent different then the perfect ratios. All but the most exquisitely trained human ears could not tell the difference! Now, we also observe that 12 perfect fifths is about 129.74:1 which is 1 percent different than 7 octaves! So if we fudge the definition of a fifth a bit so that 12 fifths is exactly 7 octaves, we get 12 tones in a one octave interval (starting note, 1 fifth up, two fifths up, etc. taking each interval down by a factor of 2 to get it in the right octave). The smallest of these is the interval "half-step" or "semi-tone" and 12 of these equal an octave. 3 of these is our modifed minor third from above, 4 is our modified major third, and 7 is our modified perfect fifth. 5 is a "fudged" perfect foruth, so that a fuged fourth followed by a fudged fifth is again an octave. So now we have 12 tones in an octave from which to use in our compositions. Adding in all the different octaves, we have all the intervals used in modern western music. The collection of all tones that are one of these intervals from a starting note (say 440 hz, which is the 4th A on a piano, I think) has the following properties 1. It approximately contain all minor and major thirds, perfect fifths and fourths, and octaves from any of its notes 2. If you take one of these tones and use that as your starting note, you get the exact same progression that you got from your original starting note. The price to pay is that the intervals you are using are not exactly rations of whole numbers. But note that neither of these two properties could possibly hold if you based all your intervals on ratios of whole numbers. You would need an infinite number of notes within a single octave to do it. From one perspective it's aesthetically frustrating. From another, nothing in the universe is exact, so if you can't really hear the difference, who cares? The alternative to giving up exact ratios (insofar as you can construct an instrument that can be tuned exactly ), is to find a progression that only approximately satisfies 1. and 2. above. (Note: You WILL want your list of permissible notes to satisfy and 1. and 2. at least approximately if you want to compose a piece of music.) So pick your poison.

Seriously, are you my long lost sister or what? Stillness movement and KAP are my primary practices. I must confess I probably don't devote enough time to either one, but for me right now it the combination seems best to me. If you think the perineum pumps are what you need to be doing, do it. Play around with it, but just go easy and be balanced. Someone mentioned the deer exercise as an alternative, which Tao would have no problem with since he wrote instructions for it http://www.umaatantra.com/tantra_articles/...r_exercise.html Took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm glad KAP is working so well for you. I recommended Frantzis style breathing over KAP style because in KAP you are contracting the PC muscles on the exhale, and the whole point of my post was that you should consider doing something to counterbalance all the PC contractions. Frantzis is great for the mechanics of the breathing, even if you choose not to follow his 70% rule philosophy. You can integrate the movement of the sides and back into your KAP breathing. Like I said, it will help the MCO, belt channel, and dan tien cultivation. I suspect Frantzis advocates the 70% rule so strongly because over-zealous westerners without teachers use do not understand just how tense they really are and so mess themselves up by unintentionally overstraining. If you religiously follow the 70% rule and are a naturally timid person your progress will be imperceptibly slow. Moreover, if you are numb to your own tension Frantzis' methods will do next to nothing for you (if you can't feel it, how can you dissolve it?).

Didn't you said you did the practices in Opening the Energy Gates and Relaxing Into Your Being at some point? I'm talking about "Taoist Internal Breathing" aka "Longevity Breathing". Clff's notes: As you relax into correct alignment and as your fascia begins to loosen up, a lot of different areas of your torso begin moving with the breath. Especially if you keep the chest still. First (the one everyone knows) the belly moves forward and backward, but also the sides move out and in, the lower back moves backward and forward, the upper chest around the clavicle moves up and down, and the upper back moves backward and forward (shoulders must be relaxed and open). Roughly in that order of difficulty. So you want to consciously try to get these areas to move when you breathe. But it won't work well if your fascia is tight. Doing it while stretching can really help loosen up the fascia more that the force of breath on its own. Try self massage too. Now, B.K. doesn't mention this in his materials, but the pelvic floor also moves with the breath. Tao Semko wrote an article you may want to look into here: http://www.umaatantra.com/tantra_articles/...low_051004.html When done properly each breath stimulates the dan tien, belt channel, and microcosmic orbit.

I think that the question "What you are trying to get out of Taoism?" is the principal determinant of how you will answer this question. For me, a path to obtain health on all levels of my being. (Obvious questions: What is health? What is my being? But that is the best one sentence answer I could come up with.) I think "Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition" is a specialization of "Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers" and so any votes the former gets should go to the latter. It's what I voted for. "Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism" and "Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing" are also very similar, the unqualified teachers one being more general because a "teacher" might have the best intentions but be unqualified, while someone who is primarily trying to make a buck is definitely unqualified due to wrong intentions. This is also a big issue. How does one determine who/what is authentic with so many rascals out there? But if you are not looking to dive into the core of your being and become a complete person, neither issue it is as pressing.

This may very well be something you need to do at this point in time, but I would caution against doing this long term. Exercising any muscle a disproportionate amount is unbalanced. Moreover (while I'm presuming to give advice...), if you work a muscle a lot you should also work on relaxing that muscle a lot. Otherwise you can start storing tension. Perhaps a good amount of B.K. Frantzis style breathing (no breath holding, using minimal muscular force to breathe, relaxing more and more with each breath) with special emphasis on breathing into the pelvic floor region would be appropriate? Since you said you follow it up with MCO, I should mention that the pelvic floor breathing (which he leaves out of his instructional materials for some reason) plus the lower and upper back breathing really get the chi going in the governor channel. Best wishes, Tyler

Good to see you Yoda! TTBs just isn't the same without you.

Thank you for doing this Santi. Something about going with the energy and bypassing the mind clicked for me last night. Still, it will probably take much more time and insight to cure a hardcore mental masturbator like me. Looks like I missed a lot not being on the chat. No worries though. It was interesting because in Tao's weekly meditation he said he was only sending a little Shaktipat and the Shaktipat that night would be much more powerful. But I felt Tao's little bit more than anything during the night session. Maybe it was the real time interaction? Or because it was a smaller group? Or I was more open (I had just come back from qigong in a park)? Prince or Mal (or anyone else on the 5:00 call), how would you compare the two? My dear, I know your pain. Those kinds of "triggers" can prompt very intense depression episodes out of nowhere. I have experienced this many times over the years, and many of my triggers have been of a sexual nature too. And they don't lose their power because of a bit of qigong or meditation. They indicate the presence of a deep wound that needs healded. I'm rooting for you from the next trench over. -Tyler

I would add that superimposition is not something you want to just "do". First connect your above-crown chakra to theirs, and then make sure both higher level selves are OK with it before going for an energy body superimposition. I'm psyched. See you guys there. Best, Tyler

Oh yeah, here's some more: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/ttx/ttx03.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/sbe40/sbe4020.htm They are both from the late 19th century. Got the links from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangdi_Yinfujing

Vitality, Energy, Spirit by Thomas Cleary has a translation of the Yinfujing with commentary by Liu I-Ming. http://www.amazon.com/Vitality-Energy-Spir.../ref=pd_sim_b_1

Nobuo Uematsu is a living god of music. I just found that version of Those Who Fight a few days ago and wanted to post it in response to Findley. I refrained... Yasunori Mitsuda is great too, but he doesn't have nearly as many truly brilliant pieces as Uematsu-san. Time's Scar gives me goose bumps, but not quite like Liberi Fatali, Dancing Mad, One Winged Angel, or Darkness and Starlight. Side by side comparison: lHQ7yEYwEnE 1WF8PibP8a4 Another brilliant piece of Mitsuda's is Flight from Xenogears: WxAzuUgI460 Rapturously epic.